If Hyundai sold the CTS and Cadillac sold the Genesis, which car would sell more? - Page 3

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Poll: Which car would sell more?

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Thread: If Hyundai sold the CTS and Cadillac sold the Genesis, which car would sell more?

  1. #31
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    Re: CTS vs. Genesis, Round 2

    The CTS. Americans are a superficial trendy lot, they'll buy the prettier one.
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    Re: CTS vs. Genesis, Round 2

    Quote Originally Posted by OLDSCHOOLGMFAN View Post
    CTS hands down. The Genesis is a fake nothing car. A shameless BMW/Benz clone that's not fooling anyone but it's maker.


    Isn't the Genesis larger, roomier, comfier, and less sporty? And it has a V8. I thought that would be more to your tastes.

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    Re: If Hyundai sold the CTS and Cadillac sold the Genesis, which car would sell more?

    Quote Originally Posted by OLDSCHOOLGMFAN View Post
    The Genesis is a fake nothing car
    That's hilarious. A 429 horsepower rear wheel drive V8 full-sizer and you think it's nothing simply because of a piece of metal shaped like an H.

    Quote Originally Posted by matt.w View Post


    Isn't the Genesis larger, roomier, comfier, and less sporty? And it has a V8. I thought that would be more to your tastes.
    Seriously...

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  6. #34
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    Re: If Hyundai sold the CTS and Cadillac sold the Genesis, which car would sell more?

    I say the Hyundai CTS would sell better because of the trendy 'Continental' alfa numeric name! Isn't that what the sheeples want?

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    Re: If Hyundai sold the CTS and Cadillac sold the Genesis, which car would sell more?

    At the end of the day, it's still a Hyundai.

    Thus, the Cadillac Genesis would sell better.

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    Re: If Hyundai sold the CTS and Cadillac sold the Genesis, which car would sell more?

    Almost 3 to 1 the Genesis outsells the Cadillac if the brand names were changed. It's almost unfathomable how Hyundai can, theoretically, get a car made by Cadillac and not be able to sell it better than a Cadillac made by Hyundai.

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    Re: If Hyundai sold the CTS and Cadillac sold the Genesis, which car would sell more?

    I can certainly appreciate your pain.

    The people are speaking as we post and clearly they want Hyundai to make and offer a better, alternative Camry and Corolla product - which they do, but they're not very interested in a Hyundai car much above that.

    Witness the chronic fail with the Azera....... or even up line V6 Sonatas.

    This is also known by Hyundai and has been for quite some time hence the smart, original intent to offer a separate brand for the Genesis and Equus.

    However, given how things have changed up - that would've been an even bigger and far more expensive fail that what's happening now due to each product's rapidly increasing irrelevance.

    None of the above is a poor reflection on Hyundai, btw or even the products per se.

    The world changed - and Hyundai got caught out of step - like everyone else.

    They would have been 'great' for the 2000 - 2005 period or the current one if it hadn't been so badly disrupted.

    I didn't vote - the details not described of and around the switch would matter too much to ignore.

    Best sustained lease program would matter large.
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    Re: If Hyundai sold the CTS and Cadillac sold the Genesis, which car would sell more?

    The Cadillac Genesis would sell better simply b/c there is still a considerable market segment that is more geared towards domestic luxury cars (and Lincoln isn't really putting anything out there right now that is interesting).

    The Hyundai CTS would have to work stealing sales mostly from the luxury import market which is more competitive.

    Another way to look at it, if the BMW 5 Series or the Mercedes E Class were sold as a Cadillac, they would sell more (yeah, BMW and Mercedes have more "prestige" than Cadillac, but there still is a sizeable segment of buyers looking to buy domestic, while the import sector has competition from the Japanese, Swedes, the Brits, etc.).


    Quote Originally Posted by tbirderic View Post
    No matter how good the product may be, Hyundai is never going to succeed in marketing and selling luxury cars until they launch a proper luxury brand and dealership network.

    They already have two cars that have been reasonably well received: How long are they going to wait?
    Until they have higher volume models ready for production.

    W/o higher volume models (such as an entry-level sedan and at least 1 CUV), the dealerships wouldn't have enough sales volume to be self-sufficient.

    As it is tho, Hyundai is doing alright.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quixote88 View Post
    But then we would really hear how Cadillac stole Mercedes Benz' design...

    Hyundai can still get away with it. Cadillac cannot... They have to come up with their own original designs... Like the CTS...
    Well, aside from the grill shape (btw, add a center divider down the grill of the LS460 and it becomes Mercedes-like as well), the Genesis looks nothing like Mercedes. BMW - yes, Mercedes - no (I guess Chevy can get away w/ it since the G8 was also very BMW-like).

    I guess Chrysler can get away w/ stealing the flame-surfacing of the grill slats on the 300C/200C like what was started on the Genesis.

    Quote Originally Posted by pont3 View Post
    The Genesis is nothing more than combined copies of Mercedes, Lexus, Acura, and BMW previous years styling. It's not bad looking, but it doesn't look modern or cutting edge. The CTS, on the other hand, looks like nothing else.
    Lexus and Acura - don't think so.

    Quote Originally Posted by OLDSCHOOLGMFAN View Post
    CTS hands down. The Genesis is a fake nothing car. A shameless BMW/Benz clone that's not fooling anyone but it's maker.
    And yet, the Genesis sedan outsells every RWD midsize luxury import sedan aside from the E Class and 5 Series; that's beating the competition from the likes of Audi, Lexus and Infiniti (and that's w/o the benefit of AWD which hampers sales).

    Even w/o a luxury brand, the Genesis and Equus sedans in January outsold the GS and LS from Lexus (granted, Lexus sales were slanted more heavily to the flagship sedan).

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    Re: If Hyundai sold the CTS and Cadillac sold the Genesis, which car would sell more?

    If Buick sold the Genesis and Cadillac sold the CTS the Genesis would sell better
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    Re: If Hyundai sold the CTS and Cadillac sold the Genesis, which car would sell more?

    Quote Originally Posted by YEH View Post
    Even w/o a luxury brand, the Genesis and Equus sedans in January outsold the GS and LS from Lexus (granted, Lexus sales were slanted more heavily to the flagship sedan).
    The base GS350 (which is due for a revamp) starts at $45,600, compared to $33,000 for the Genesis 3.8, a difference of nearly $13k. Similarly the base LS460 starts at $68,905 compared to $58,000 for the Equus, a difference of ~$11k.

    So no they didn't exactly perform magic here. If I were to make a car that is as good if not better than the competition and price it at over $10k less, that $10k in savings will go a long way in compensating for the lack of a premium badge for some buyers.
    Last edited by Mr. Burns; 02-13-2011 at 11:08 PM.

  13. #41
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    Re: If Hyundai sold the CTS and Cadillac sold the Genesis, which car would sell more?

    ^ Oh, please.

    The LS400 had a greater price discrepancy w/ its competition.

    Every new entry in a segment 1st has to compete on price; plus, Hyundai has to give a "discount" since it's not being sold under a luxury badge.

    And keep in mind, if the Genesis had available AWD, the diff. in sales would be even greater (AWD would probably increase Genesis sedan sales by 30-35%).

    And oh, Cadillac's competiton for the GS, 5 Series, E Class, etc. is sold under a luxury badge and at a pricepoint a lot closer to the Genesis than the rest of the competition.


    Quote Originally Posted by F14CRAZY View Post
    If Buick sold the Genesis and Cadillac sold the CTS the Genesis would sell better
    Seems totally plausible.

    At around the same price, the American buyer tends to opt for more passenger room/comfort, but the lack of AWD in the Genesis would make it close.

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    Re: If Hyundai sold the CTS and Cadillac sold the Genesis, which car would sell more?

    Quote Originally Posted by YEH View Post
    Until they have higher volume models ready for production.

    W/o higher volume models (such as an entry-level sedan and at least 1 CUV), the dealerships wouldn't have enough sales volume to be self-sufficient.

    As it is tho, Hyundai is doing alright.
    I beg to differ. Lexus and Acura were both successfully launched with two cars, Infiniti launched with three. Right now Hyundai has two bargain-priced luxury cars that primarily appeal to those who aren't brand snobs, a demographic that's clearly the minority of the luxury market. As good as the Eqqus and Genesis sedan may be, they represent a value proposition, and that's unsustainable in the long-term. I don't see how Hyundai can ever hope to substantially increase its sales of these cars unless they can clearly be defined as a luxury product.

    The first step to building a luxury brand is to produce a luxury product. Hyundai have done just that, but they have yet to successfully cultivate a luxurious image, and that's something that can only be done through a bespoke luxury brand. The longer they wait, the harder it's going to be, and until they do it, Hyundai will never be able to command luxury prices, let alone increased sales.
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  15. #43
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    Re: If Hyundai sold the CTS and Cadillac sold the Genesis, which car would sell more?

    ^ The Japanese Big 3 heavily subsidized sales during the early years which is something Hyundai is unwilling to do (industry analysts suspect tha Lexus made no $$ on the LS400 or even lost $$ on it for the 1st couple of years).

    Also, aside from the LS and Infiniti Q, all the other early Japanese luxury models were basically (slightly) reskinned FWD JDM models.

    And let's not forget that until the G revived Infiniti's fortunes, Infiniti was a brand that was in danger of disappearing.

    Plus, the auto market today is very diff. from when the Japanese set up their luxury brands.

    The US was the undisputed no.1 auto market w/ the luxury segment a real money maker.

    Nowadays, it makes better sense for Hyundai to spend its resources on expanding sales in the fast growing BRIC markets than to pour billions into a luxury brand in the US.

    Ultimately, they may very well launch a luxury marque, but at this juncture, it just doesn't make financial sense.

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    Re: If Hyundai sold the CTS and Cadillac sold the Genesis, which car would sell more?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Collaziano View Post
    Almost 3 to 1 the Genesis outsells the Cadillac if the brand names were changed. It's almost unfathomable how Hyundai can, theoretically, get a car made by Cadillac and not be able to sell it better than a Cadillac made by Hyundai.
    Are you referring to this poll in terms of sales numbers?

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