WTCC Marrakesh: Chevrolet Cruze Won!

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Thread: WTCC Marrakesh: Chevrolet Cruze Won!

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    WTCC Marrakesh: Chevrolet Cruze Won!

    World Touring Car Championship, Marrakech
    Chevrolet on podium


    Let me share this news with you briefly. The Race ended a few moments ago and the blue Chevys took 1st (driven by Nicola Larini) and 3rd place (Robert Huff).

    Congratulations Cruze!!!



    PS
    Oh i forgot, the Cruze started from Pole(Huff), and won the 1st race also
    Last edited by Andonis; 05-03-2009 at 10:33 AM.

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    Re: WTCC Marrakesh: Chevrolet Cruze Won!

    . . . and they'll be dancing in the streets of Bupyong tonight.

    Am I alone in not being enthused by the progressive Daewoo-ization of General Motors? If I'd wanted to be a Korean car fanboy I'd hang out at a Kia or Hyundai fansite.

    Is this, then, the future we face? If so, I really don't know where my increasingly confused loyalties will be transferred.

    The late Chrysler company will probably be reborn as a marketer and importer of Fiats, Ford is going to be mainly an assembler of the Anglo-German FoE cars, and GM is effectively going to be an assembler of cars designed in South Korea and China. Sorry, fellas, but I'm not going to be a cheerleader for any of that.

    I am close to pronouncing the American car (in the meaningful sense of the term) clinically dead. Anyone else out there feel the same?

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    Re: WTCC Marrakesh: Chevrolet Cruze Won!

    That's what happens when the Detroit 3 decided to pour their North American operation's resources into trucks, their development money for cars went elsewhere.

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    Re: WTCC Marrakesh: Chevrolet Cruze Won!

    Quote Originally Posted by BigThreeForever View Post
    . . . and they'll be dancing in the streets of Bupyong tonight.

    Am I alone in not being enthused by the progressive Daewoo-ization of General Motors? If I'd wanted to be a Korean car fanboy I'd hang out at a Kia or Hyundai fansite.

    Is this, then, the future we face? If so, I really don't know where my increasingly confused loyalties will be transferred.

    The late Chrysler company will probably be reborn as a marketer and importer of Fiats, Ford is going to be mainly an assembler of the Anglo-German FoE cars, and GM is effectively going to be an assembler of cars designed in South Korea and China. Sorry, fellas, but I'm not going to be a cheerleader for any of that.

    I am close to pronouncing the American car (in the meaningful sense of the term) clinically dead. Anyone else out there feel the same?
    I think I understand. I for the life of me will never understand why some people seem to love Daewoo so much, even though apart from the Cruze they have provided nothing worth looking at. I daresay selling/losing Daewoo is a GOOD thing.

    As for the death of the American car, as long as Chrysler lives, American cars will also live - at least to me. I don't think Fiat will kill off the 300, Charger or Jeeps.

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    Re: WTCC Marrakesh: Chevrolet Cruze Won!

    The Cruze design was done by GM Daewoo, but engineered in Russelsheim, Germany.

    It makes sense for GM to leverage and optimize all of its global resources. Globalization of GM to me only means it's gotten fairly smart about doing business as a worldwide company. Our Cruze will be built in Ohio, and the parent company is based in Detroit. That's all I need to know to consider it a fully "American car."

    Personally, I'm suspicious of when people start using the globalization angle to make pronouncements about how you can't distinguish, say, a Camry vs. a Cruze as more "American." Bullsh!t. That's a feelgood mindset to believe that it doesn't matter whose car you buy in a supposedly blurry world. There is no way in hell that buying a Toyota or Honda will ever be better for America than buying GM or Ford. Unless GM or Ford at some point gets bought by Japan or China, then you can make that argument.

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    Re: WTCC Marrakesh: Chevrolet Cruze Won!

    Quote Originally Posted by BigThreeForever View Post
    I am close to pronouncing the American car (in the meaningful sense of the term) clinically dead. Anyone else out there feel the same?
    I fail to understand why this could be a bad thing.

    Americans import vehicles by the millions and that doesn't present any sense of conflicting loyalty. Now that the domestics (or the Big 3 - both misnomers) are operating on a global level and have achieved international acclaim it's a cause for concern?

    If expanding into burgeoning markets and embracing the creative ingenuity behind vehicles like the Camaro, G8, Astra, Insignia and Cruze marks the end of a generation of ineptitude and arrogance I'll be happy to attend that funeral.

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    Re: WTCC Marrakesh: Chevrolet Cruze Won!

    Quote Originally Posted by yamahr1 View Post
    The Cruze design was done by GM Daewoo, but engineered in Russelsheim, Germany.

    It makes sense for GM to leverage and optimize all of its global resources. Globalization of GM to me only means it's gotten fairly smart about doing business as a worldwide company. Our Cruze will be built in Ohio, and the parent company is based in Detroit. That's all I need to know to consider it a fully "American car."

    Personally, I'm suspicious of when people start using the globalization angle to make pronouncements about how you can't distinguish, say, a Camry vs. a Cruze as more "American." Bullsh!t. That's a feelgood mindset to believe that it doesn't matter whose car you buy in a supposedly blurry world. There is no way in hell that buying a Toyota or Honda will ever be better for America than buying GM or Ford. Unless GM or Ford at some point gets bought by Japan or China, then you can make that argument.
    Also, Honda and Toyoda supplement their N.A. assembled vehicles with ones from Japan, so an Accord or Civic that you see on the road isn't necessarily assembled in Ohio. It may be assembled in Ohio, Japan, Canada, only way you know is if you check the vin or sticker price on the car. I have it in my mind that both the Camry and Accord assembled about 80% in the U.S. for consumption in the U.S. Couple that with low content and you are getting a car that is half imported have American with little R&D taking place here. So their American flag waving is a sham in my book.
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    Re: WTCC Marrakesh: Chevrolet Cruze Won!

    Quote Originally Posted by Exploder View Post

    As for the death of the American car, as long as Chrysler lives, American cars will also live - at least to me. I don't think Fiat will kill off the 300, Charger or Jeeps.
    You do realize that the 300/Charger/Magnum/Challenger are all built off the old Mercedes E Class right? How is that any different than the Cruze being styled in South Korea, the Camaro/G8 platform coming from Australia or Ford's cars coming from Volvo?

    Does a car have to be designed, engineered, built and tested in America to be American or is an American Car an essence, an intangible quality that makes it American?

    I believe it's the latter, the sum of the parts may determine how good the car is, but it's the car's soul that gives it it's swagger. A uniquely American car quality.

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    Re: WTCC Marrakesh: Chevrolet Cruze Won!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinner View Post
    You do realize that the 300/Charger/Magnum/Challenger are all built off the old Mercedes E Class right? How is that any different than the Cruze being styled in South Korea, the Camaro/G8 platform coming from Australia or Ford's cars coming from Volvo?

    Does a car have to be designed, engineered, built and tested in America to be American or is an American Car an essence, an intangible quality that makes it American?

    I believe it's the latter, the sum of the parts may determine how good the car is, but it's the car's soul that gives it it's swagger. A uniquely American car quality.
    I thought the only parts from the ol' E-Class that are currently used in the Chrysler LX cars are parts of the rear suspension, electronics, and transmission? I wouldn't call that "built off of the old Mercedes E Class", I'd call that parts sharing.

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    Re: WTCC Marrakesh: Chevrolet Cruze Won!

    Quote Originally Posted by BigThreeForever View Post
    . . . and they'll be dancing in the streets of Bupyong tonight.

    Am I alone in not being enthused by the progressive Daewoo-ization of General Motors? If I'd wanted to be a Korean car fanboy I'd hang out at a Kia or Hyundai fansite.

    Is this, then, the future we face? If so, I really don't know where my increasingly confused loyalties will be transferred.

    The late Chrysler company will probably be reborn as a marketer and importer of Fiats, Ford is going to be mainly an assembler of the Anglo-German FoE cars, and GM is effectively going to be an assembler of cars designed in South Korea and China. Sorry, fellas, but I'm not going to be a cheerleader for any of that.

    I am close to pronouncing the American car (in the meaningful sense of the term) clinically dead. Anyone else out there feel the same?
    I see your point about losing manufacturing cars in NA, but would you rather GM keeps making small cars in NA that lose money or make use of the GM world and be able to make money on them??

    1 thing you might be able to help me on, with the small cars that are made by GM in NA how many different plants are they done at, would it be possible for GM to make money by building all their small cars, like Cobalt and Cruze and which ever else small car you want to include in it, at the 1 plant?? Would it be possible on say 2 or 3 lines to manufacture all these small cars at 1 place? Im assuming it would be something like 300-400,000 cars a year, that should make for a busy plant and profitable cars no??

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    Re: WTCC Marrakesh: Chevrolet Cruze Won!

    Quote Originally Posted by yamahr1 View Post
    The Cruze design was done by GM Daewoo, but engineered in Russelsheim, Germany.

    It makes sense for GM to leverage and optimize all of its global resources. Globalization of GM to me only means it's gotten fairly smart about doing business as a worldwide company. Our Cruze will be built in Ohio, and the parent company is based in Detroit. That's all I need to know to consider it a fully "American car."

    Personally, I'm suspicious of when people start using the globalization angle to make pronouncements about how you can't distinguish, say, a Camry vs. a Cruze as more "American." Bullsh!t. That's a feelgood mindset to believe that it doesn't matter whose car you buy in a supposedly blurry world. There is no way in hell that buying a Toyota or Honda will ever be better for America than buying GM or Ford. Unless GM or Ford at some point gets bought by Japan or China, then you can make that argument.


    Right On!!!!!!

    These new vehicles are still GM designed and use GM developed technology, and many will be built here eventually.

    Any vehicle that adds to GM's bottom line is helping to bring revenue to America, so I don't care in what country they are concieved, as long as they are part of GM's international network.

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    Re: WTCC Marrakesh: Chevrolet Cruze Won!

    My point was this: I supported GM for many, many years (and Chrysler and Ford) because they designed and built cars in the US and did so to a uniquely American formula.

    It looks now as though all of tomorrow's cars from supposedly "American" companies will simply be foreign kits assembled here.

    So really, what difference is there between a Japanese car vehicle assembled in Marysville, Ohio and a Korean car assembled in Lordstown, Ohio? I mean, really?

    I see none.

    What will those of us who actually like American-created "American-culture" cars have to buy in the future? Nothing? That is the way it is looking.

    The American industry is not just financially bankrupt, it is creatively and culturally bankrupt, too.

    I thought the range of truly American cars was poor five years ago, but that now seems like a far-off golden age . . . we had Concorde, Intrepid, 300M, LeSabre, Park Avenue, Century, Regal, Seville, DeVille, Impala, Monte Carlo, Bonneville, Grand Prix, Thunderbird, Town Car, Crown Victoria, Grand Marquis . . . all dead now, or soon to die.

    The future, for me, will be old cars, I guess. I just don't want a ricer.

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    Re: WTCC Marrakesh: Chevrolet Cruze Won!

    After GM stupidly sells off it's European operations that will end the German engineering everyone loves so much. A huge part of the Cruze's engineering was done by Opel.
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    Re: WTCC Marrakesh: Chevrolet Cruze Won!

    Quote Originally Posted by BigThreeForever View Post
    . . . and they'll be dancing in the streets of Bupyong tonight.

    Am I alone in not being enthused by the progressive Daewoo-ization of General Motors? If I'd wanted to be a Korean car fanboy I'd hang out at a Kia or Hyundai fansite.

    Is this, then, the future we face? If so, I really don't know where my increasingly confused loyalties will be transferred.

    The late Chrysler company will probably be reborn as a marketer and importer of Fiats, Ford is going to be mainly an assembler of the Anglo-German FoE cars, and GM is effectively going to be an assembler of cars designed in South Korea and China. Sorry, fellas, but I'm not going to be a cheerleader for any of that.

    I am close to pronouncing the American car (in the meaningful sense of the term) clinically dead. Anyone else out there feel the same?
    Yes, I feel the same way. I wouldn't mind so much if it were engineered by a company with superior small car engineering, but GMDAT just plain sucks. Even more galling the design of the car was led by them and let me tell you the NA designed Malibu looks **** loads better than the Korean designed Cruze.
    Korean designed, stupid name.

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    Re: WTCC Marrakesh: Chevrolet Cruze Won!

    I'm sorry, but the One Ford plan is a good one. We get the best from Europe and the the best from NA, plus we have some influence from SA (EcoSport) and Asia (Mazda, Ranger, etc).

    Think of tens of billions GM & Ford could have saved from engineering cars globally verses locally. Yeah Ford didn't get it right the first time with the Mystic/Contour and part of that was the quality prior to six sigma implementation; but the other cars coming out are fantastic such as the Fiesta/Ka/Kuga/Transit-Connect.

    GM was smart to leverage Opel designs for Saturn and dumb to try and import them from Europe. Also these cars would have been better suited for Buick because they would have sold better in the higher trim levels. If they were made in NA, the sales prices would have been lower, sales would have been higher and they would have been profitable. Same for Holden. Oh and lets not forget that these cars such as the Astra and G8 were never to my knowledge advertised or marketed.

    Going forward, GM will still have a problem with Chevy as they are mid-ranged vehicles in NA and bottom feeders in Europe. For the most part a MB/BMW is a MB/BMW anywheres, the only difference is the class/series.
    Last edited by gardnet1; 05-03-2009 at 05:57 PM.

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