Opel covering up their own Dieselgate?

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Thread: Opel covering up their own Dieselgate?

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    Opel covering up their own Dieselgate?

    Reports in the Belgian media suggest that Opel is secretly updating the software in the Opel Zafira 1.6 diesel in order to fix the NOX-emissions, which are way too high. Cars are recalled for something else, and without admitting that they do it, an update of the engine software is performed which brings emission AND torque down. A few cars have been tested before and after the operation, and there are marked differences in emissions and power before and after.
    Opel denies everything. The operation is supposed to have started in october, after VW's dieselgate scandal broke. Secretly recorded Opel mechanics actually admit what is happening...
    If this is true, it could get worse than VW's scandal.

    Click here for the horribly translated version

    The VRT is a very reputable news organisation bytheway. It's the Belgian national broadcaster for the Flemish part of Belgium.

    Let's see how this unfolds. The Zafira was red-flagged a while ago in Switzerland I believe (not sure if that was the same engine). And the French are looking into Renault, Ford and Mercedes.

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    Re: Opel covering up their own Dieselgate?

    How Secret is it?

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    Re: Opel covering up their own Dieselgate?

    Well, Opel is denying that they are doing it....

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    Re: Opel covering up their own Dieselgate?

    Quote Originally Posted by jalberda View Post
    Well, Opel is denying that they are doing it....
    If the European Diesels are the same as the ones Chevrolet is using here in the States, this has no merit. If not, oh well... I doubt there would be something as significant as what Volkswagen has problems with.

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    Re: Opel covering up their own Dieselgate?

    Whoopsy!

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    Re: Opel covering up their own Dieselgate?

    They were only following orders.

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    Re: Opel covering up their own Dieselgate?

    ^^Schultz. One of my heros.

    And clearly a role model for politicians everywhere. I see nussink, nussink!
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    Re: Opel covering up their own Dieselgate?

    I will add "standard operating procedures" for anybody doing OEM work is to check AND update ANY outdated firmware
    so the DEALERS ETC may be totally "innocent" and are following procedures
    DAF-paccar the software WILL NOT let you do ANYTHING unless you update to the latest FW and in SOME cases will ACTUALLY render the customers machine with warnings on the DASH by doing nothing but connecting the diagnostic software and NOT continuing through the update

    ford HAD the same
    "scandal" on there super duty trucks the PEAK power was the same BUT the NON peak was lowered to "protect" the NON reliable 6.0L/ 6.4L engines (do NOT remember which)
    Honda also did it to the CIVIC Hybrid to "protect" the HV batteries to get them through the warranty period

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    Re: Opel covering up their own Dieselgate?

    Do the so called "journalists" even understand what VW did and to what it has admitted? Namely, writing defeat software that operated one set of parameters during emissions testing, then operated a different set of parameters during day to day driving, i.e. "defeat software"?

    Have these so called "journalists" produced one iota of evidence that Opel have employed any sort of "defeat device". i.e. software such as VW? NO, THEY HAVE NOT.

    The emissions test protocols are the responsibility of the government agency that writes them. It is therefore the responsibility of the government agency to determine the real world applicability of the tests. The auto company is responsible for meeting the guidelines set by the government as reflected in the tests. Just because a car emits higher levels of NOX in real world driving than its government test levels in no way demonstrates that the auto maker has done anything wrong. Such an instance might point out the weakness of the government approved tests as a harbinger of real world results.

    Much like MPG figures, the value of the government tests is to compare vehicles tested under a controlled regime. Each vehicle sees the same requirements and same test environment, so the results among vehicles are comparable. To expect the tests to mimic real world results is not realistic, given all the environmental and driver behavior variables.

    Bottom line, unless these so called "journalists" can produce any evidence that Opel have set up a similar system to VW's self admitted cheats, there is nothing to see here.
    Last edited by 62Lincoln; 01-18-2016 at 07:48 PM.

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    Re: Opel covering up their own Dieselgate?

    Flanders News.be
    Are Opel dealers modyfing the software of polluting Zafiras?
    with video in English
    Mon 18/01/2016

    VRT News has discovered that since November official Opel dealers have been modifying polluting software in one of the Opel models. This is the case with the Zafira-Tourer 2014 series with a 1.6 diesel engine. The software enhances the performance of the cars, but at the same time also increases nitrogen oxide emissions to levels several hundred percent above the permitted European norms. Dealers are now changing the packet in question making the cars less polluting. During our investigation we established that the reason for the upgrade was hidden from Zafira owners. The operation started shortly after the Dieselgate scandal erupted in Europe. (Reporter: Luc Pauwels. VRT's investigation was conducted with support from the Pascal Decroos Fund for Investigative Journalism.)
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    Re: Opel covering up their own Dieselgate?

    What about the same engine in all other Opel cars except ADAM, KARL and Corsa? Only the Zafira gets the 'upgrade'?

    Last year a German source said the same thing about the Zafira with the same engine. It was a lot of hot air, same for Renault this year.

    Investigators haven’t found evidence of cheating device at Renault

    Opel fights back against alleged emissions cheating

    Some insides of the VW dieselgate.

    Last edited by Toto; 01-18-2016 at 11:38 PM.

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    Re: Opel covering up their own Dieselgate?

    Quote Originally Posted by 62Lincoln View Post
    Do the so called "journalists" even understand what VW did and to what it has admitted? Namely, writing defeat software that operated one set of parameters during emissions testing, then operated a different set of parameters during day to day driving, i.e. "defeat software"?

    Have these so called "journalists" produced one iota of evidence that Opel have employed any sort of "defeat device". i.e. software such as VW? NO, THEY HAVE NOT.

    The emissions test protocols are the responsibility of the government agency that writes them. It is therefore the responsibility of the government agency to determine the real world applicability of the tests. The auto company is responsible for meeting the guidelines set by the government as reflected in the tests. Just because a car emits higher levels of NOX in real world driving than its government test levels in no way demonstrates that the auto maker has done anything wrong. Such an instance might point out the weakness of the government approved tests as a harbinger of real world results.

    Much like MPG figures, the value of the government tests is to compare vehicles tested under a controlled regime. Each vehicle sees the same requirements and same test environment, so the results among vehicles are comparable. To expect the tests to mimic real world results is not realistic, given all the environmental and driver behavior variables.

    Bottom line, unless these so called "journalists" can produce any evidence that Opel have set up a similar system to VW's self admitted cheats, there is nothing to see here.
    I would say that maybe it is not about the defeat device but the secretly covering up aspect. If this is all true, why cover up and even deny what is being done? Apparently, there is something to hide. Maybe it is something like VW made. Maybe it is something else. The journalists should keen on digging and either clear Opel or find out what they are covering up.

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    Re: Opel covering up their own Dieselgate?

    Quote Originally Posted by jalberda View Post
    I would say that maybe it is not about the defeat device but the secretly covering up aspect. If this is all true, why cover up and even deny what is being done? Apparently, there is something to hide. Maybe it is something like VW made. Maybe it is something else. The journalists should keen on digging and either clear Opel or find out what they are covering up.
    Maybe the so called "journalists" should do their homework and keep "digging" for some facts first rather than publishing accusations without fact based support. They do not, and have not, presented one iota of evidence that Opel is using a "defeat device", i.e. software in any way that would be similar to VW. That a car would produce more emissions in the real world versus a test session is not news as I previously explained. Opel has denied the "secret program" alleged by the so called journalists. It is up to the so called journalists to "put up or shut up". They never should have published an irresponsible accusation without proof, which, as we already have seen, they do not have.

    It is borderline slanderous to accuse Opel of its own "Dieselgate" when the so called journalists have presented no evidence that Opel is doing anything like what VW have admitted to.
    Last edited by 62Lincoln; 01-19-2016 at 06:25 AM.

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    Re: Opel covering up their own Dieselgate?

    Quote Originally Posted by 62Lincoln View Post
    Maybe the so called "journalists" should do their homework and keep "digging" for some facts first rather than publishing accusations without fact based support. They do not, and have not, presented one iota of evidence that Opel is using a "defeat device", i.e. software in any way that would be similar to VW. That a car would produce more emissions in the real world versus a test session is not news as I previously explained. Opel has denied the "secret program" alleged by the so called journalists. It is up to the so called journalists to "put up or shut up". They never should have published an irresponsible accusation without proof, which, as we already have seen, they do not have.

    It is borderline slanderous to accuse Opel of its own "Dieselgate" when the so called journalists have presented no evidence that Opel is doing anything like what VW have admitted to.
    The journalist dd testing and they have a recording of a mechanic discussing this. You are welcome to reject the quality of the evidence but it counts as evidence. A large corporation threatening someone is hardly proof of their innocence.

    What is missing is an iota of objective thinking because you seem fixated on defending Opel blindly.

    My brother in law is a Lexus mechanic and they regularly 'update' software to manipulate performances or resolve other issues without customer knowledge. Is it so inconceivable Opel could do the same? Or that t could affect emissions after VW just got caught polluting excessively and faces massive ramifications both legal and financial?

    This doesn't mean Opel is doing anything illegal but its not only plausible its somewhat SOP. The question is what are they really doing?
    Last edited by Rocket 88; 01-19-2016 at 08:03 AM.
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    Re: Opel covering up their own Dieselgate?

    The official response from Opel:

    Statement on claims of VRT News, Belgium
    2016-01-18

    Rüsselsheim. Opel clearly rejects the claim of VRT News that Opel dealers have been modifying software in the Zafira Tourer 1.6 diesel that changes the emission behavior of these vehicles. 15-P-044, the service update mentioned, has nothing to do with changing emission levels. In addition, no other recalls to achieve better emission values have been launched in 2015. Service update 15-P-044 has been discussed with the German Type Approval Authority KBA.

    The testing of vehicle emissions is a very complex topic. The data provided by “Emissions Analytics” does not give us enough information on, for example, their NEDC test execution and RDE tests to understand their results fully. We also need more information on the history of the test vehicle itself. “Emissions Analytics” admit in their report that their tests might deviate from regulated tests.

    As highlighted many times in recent months, we reaffirm that we do not deploy any software that recognizes if the car is undergoing an exhaust emissions test. In addition, Opel announced in December that the company is voluntarily taking the next step to meet future emissions guidelines, both on CO2 and NOx. From mid-summer 2016, and in addition to the official fuel consumption and CO2 information, fuel consumption figures recorded under the WLTP (“Worldwide Harmonized Light Duty Vehicles Test Procedure”) cycle will also be published. In addition, Opel engineers have recently started working on an initiative to implement NOx emission improvements on SCR (Selective Catalytic Reduction) diesel applications. This is a voluntary and early improvement towards the so-called RDE (Real Driving Emissions) legislation that goes into effect in 2017. Opel puts its focus on the customer and on ensuring clarity and transparency.
    Source: Opel Media Online


    About WLTP:

    Opel Goes On the Offensive with Fuel Consumption and Emissions
    2015-12-15

    Rüsselsheim. Opel is voluntarily taking the next step to meet future emissions guidelines, both on CO2 and NOx. From Q2 2016, and in addition to the official fuel consumption and CO2 information, fuel consumption numbers recorded under the WLTP cycle will also be published. In addition, diesel engineers have recently started working on an initiative to implement NOx emission improvements on SCR (Selective Catalytic Reduction) diesel applications. This is a voluntary and early improvement towards the so-called RDE (Real Driving Emissions) legislation that goes into effect in 2017. Opel is committed to providing the testing authorities transparency.

    “The events and discussions in the last weeks and months have shown that there is a tremendous focus on the automotive industry and it is now time to act based on the learnings,” says Opel Group CEO Dr. Karl-Thomas Neumann. “It is obvious to me that the diesel discussion is a turning point. The world is not as it was before. We cannot ignore this and it is in the hands of the automotive industry to change the perception of the new reality.”

    Fuel Consumption and CO2

    From Q2 2016, and in addition to the official fuel consumption and CO2 information of Opel models, fuel consumption numbers recorded under the WLTP cycle will be published, starting with the new Astra. This procedure has broad industry acceptance and has been developed to be more representative of what customers will experience in use.

    According to EU plans, the “New European Driving Cycle” (NEDC) will be replaced starting in 2017 with the more modern standard “Worldwide Harmonized Light Duty Vehicles Test Procedure” (WLTP). The WLTP – also a test conducted in laboratory conditions – is based on stringent test procedures, more consistent with fuel consumption and CO2 emissions in real-life road traffic. This new test cycle is important to maintain standardized, reproducible and comparable results.

    SCR Technology

    Related to NOx emissions, Opel is also acting right now. The Rüsselsheim automaker has started working on improved solutions for the effectiveness of exhaust gas treatment systems in Euro 6 diesel engines with SCR technology to make improvements in the direction of future RDE guidelines. RDE is the real driving emissions standard which supplements current test methods and measures a car’s emissions directly on the road.

    "Our analyses in the last months show that we have no devices that tell us if our vehicles are in a test cycle or not. Nevertheless, we also believe that we are capable of further improving the effectiveness of reduction of oxides of nitrogen emissions from our Euro 6 diesels with SCR technology and so we are making an improvement towards future RDE specifications,” emphasizes Dr. Neumann. “We will use SCR as the mainstream system for Euro 6 diesel going forward as we continue to develop improved technologies to explore higher efficiencies.”

    The work on this Euro 6 SCR improvement has started and we expect a production implementation as of the summer of 2016. This activity will also include a voluntary customer satisfaction field action that will involve 43.000 vehicles that are already on the road in Europe (Zafira Tourer, Insignia and Cascada).These vehicles will get a new calibration once it becomes available.

    Opel CEO Dr. Neumann also calls for improving the transparency between automakers and authorities in Europe. “In the USA, the companies disclose their complete calibration philosophy to authorities. I would like to see us embrace this practice in Europe.” In this context, the Opel CEO also wants to suggest that all automakers that are active in Europe take part in a negotiated agreement for more transparency.
    Source: Opel Media Online
    Last edited by Toto; 01-19-2016 at 01:24 PM.

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