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Thread: Schedule of upcoming Cadillac releases | 2018-2021

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    Re: Schedule of upcoming Cadillac releases | 2018-2021

    Quote Originally Posted by dslay04 View Post
    I smell BS on that one. As far as interior quality, ATS, CTS, XT5 are on par if not better than any German. Also, if they weren't interested, then why spend all the money on the Omega platform and make the CT6 aluminium focused
    No they're not. They're REALLY not...
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    Re: Schedule of upcoming Cadillac releases | 2018-2021

    Quote Originally Posted by eaton53 View Post
    They could get as much money as those other guys if they made Super Slades.
    I will continue to WISH...
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    Re: Schedule of upcoming Cadillac releases | 2018-2021

    Quote Originally Posted by dslay04 View Post
    I smell BS on that one. As far as interior quality, ATS, CTS, XT5 are on par if not better than any German. Also, if they weren't interested, then why spend all the money on the Omega platform and make the CT6 aluminium focused
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Accardi View Post
    Well same source also told me Cadillac isn't interested in spending the money to chase Tier 1 lux brands like Merc and Audi. So effectively they're looking for a small tranch somewhere between Buick and Lexus.

    They should just scale UP and go chase Bentley. They already have the exclusivity bit down...
    I don't know how much I believe that. I wouldn't say it's wrong, but not competing head-to-head isn't really the same thing as NOT competing at all, so I guess it's a matter of perspective.

    They're competing in what I would consider a "half-step" strategy. MB and BMW are way too far ahead to compete directly with them. CTS should be about $42k base. The E/5 is about $52k.

    Lexus is probably their most direct competitor, which is a point I've made previously (or intimated towards for a future Cadillac).

    The likelihood of sub-$30k products really drives this point home, I think (CT2, XT2), but bear in mind that this does NOT necessarily prohibit Cadillac from exploring the upper reaches of the market; it would just do so uniquely, which is fine in my book.

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    Re: Schedule of upcoming Cadillac releases | 2018-2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Accardi View Post
    Well same source also told me Cadillac isn't interested in spending the money to chase Tier 1 lux brands like Merc and Audi. So effectively they're looking for a small tranch somewhere between Buick and Lexus.
    Well if that means they won't go against top S class (maybach, S65AMG,S63AMG) BMW 760Li or Audi s8 or Audi a8 w12 then i think he might be telling the truth.
    Ask your source will we see new v8 this decade...in production.

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    Re: Schedule of upcoming Cadillac releases | 2018-2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Accardi View Post
    No they're not. They're REALLY not...
    .....last weekend I test drove a 2018 5 series, 2017 X5, 2017 E300, 2017 A6, 2017 F-Pace & XF F-Sport. Design styles aside, the material quality is just as good (definitely better than the Jaguars). so yea, your source is pretty hard to believe.

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    Re: Schedule of upcoming Cadillac releases | 2018-2021

    Quote Originally Posted by dslay04 View Post
    .....last weekend I test drove a 2018 5 series, 2017 X5, 2017 E300, 2017 A6, 2017 F-Pace & XF F-Sport. Design styles aside, the material quality is just as good (definitely better than the Jaguars). so yea, your source is pretty hard to believe.
    I'd stand to argue that your CTS is probably closer to "par" than CT6. I think yours is nicer.

    CT6 I would not say is a direct competitor in any way to the above cars; it strikes me as a change in strategy, which I think you would agree with. I also would like to believe it and XT5's shortcomings are hiccups, and that Escala really signals where the brand is heading.

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    Re: Schedule of upcoming Cadillac releases | 2018-2021

    Quote Originally Posted by dslay04 View Post
    .....last weekend I test drove a 2018 5 series, 2017 X5, 2017 E300, 2017 A6, 2017 F-Pace & XF F-Sport. Design styles aside, the material quality is just as good (definitely better than the Jaguars). so yea, your source is pretty hard to believe.
    Ok, if you insist.
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    Re: Schedule of upcoming Cadillac releases | 2018-2021

    Quote Originally Posted by sfbreh View Post
    They're not doing a sub-ATS, or at least not right now.

    ATS follow-on will be CT3 and its coupe/convertible variants will be CT4. They're A2S/A/BL. CT5 is just another sedan, it's A2LL.

    They've been explicitly listed as such, though granted in third party sources.

    Might seem a little redundant to have an ATS-L, CT6, and a CTS in between, except remember there's like 25" between the ATS-L and CT6.
    Quote Originally Posted by sfbreh View Post
    I'm pretty sure the CT3/CT5/CT6 strategy is meant to squeeze people up into the CT6 vs CT5 in China, with a CT5 for the US (as a normal midsize; size is still prohibitive here) and for China as maybe a TOKEN "driver's" or "premium" CT3.

    Can't think of a better way to describe it. I think all cars may see a focus on the rear seat space, but I predict CT5 will be the most "normal" car of the lineup.
    Sfbreh, in a celebrated online response, the president of Cadillac says the following: "We ARE planning a new Lux 3 sedan entry; [...] (and) a new Lux 2 sedan entry."

    Which segments does he refer to with "Lux 2" and "Lux 3"? In the second paragraph of that same answer there is a clue. He establishes a link between the flagship (F segment) with "Lux 5". Based on this, Johan de Nysschen divides the global luxury market as follows:


    • Lux 5 = F Segment: Audi A8, BMW 7-Series, MB S-Class.
    • Lux 4 = E Segment: Audi A6, BMW 5-Series, MB E-Class.
    • Lux 3 = D Segment: Audi A4, BMW 3-Series, MB C-Class.
    • Lux 2 = C Segment: Audi A3 Sedan, next BMW 2-Series Gran Coupe, MB CLA.
    • Lux 1 = B Segment: Audi A3 HB, BMW 1-Series, MB A-Class.


    So, this is what he is actually saying: "We ARE planning a new D-Segment sedan entry; [...] (and) a new C-Segment sedan entry."

    Trying to build the puzzle starting from the current sedan scheme is to waste time. The CT3 will not be a "next ATS", nor will the CT5 a ​​"next CTS" simply because "in the future those cars will disappear." Even the car we know today as CT6, having been conceived in the planning department of GM erratically as the "flagship" of Cadillac, is also a distraction that can obstruct the vision for the future portfolio of the brand:

    The arrival of the CT8 in 2021 will imply a redefinition to the current concept of the CT6 for its second generation, which again will have the initial role in the next offensive of product from 2022.

    As we read a few months ago, JDN suggested to Automotive News that the idea of the executives is to merge the current scheme of the CT6 with the proposal of the Escala concept and materialize it in the CT8, that with dimensions in an intermediate point between both will be the unique car of full size of Cadillac.

    This very possibly means that the next CT6 will experience a reduction in its dimensions, which will definitively locate it among the extended versions of the E-segment models or Lux 4: ~ 119-inch wheelbase (- 3.4), and a length of 198.2 inches (- 5.8).

    Cadillac Saloons Portfolio | 2022
    Model
    Platform
    Dimensions
    Seg.
    Competition
    Start price
    CT8
    O2L
    ~ WB: 124 in | L: 206.5 in
    Lux 5
    Audi A8, BMW 7, MB S
    ~ $ 77,800
    Next CT6
    O2
    ~ WB: 119 in | L: 198.2
    Lux 4
    Audi A6, BMW 5, MB E
    ~ $ 53,800
    CT4
    A2L
    ~ WB: 113.6 in | L: 190 in
    Lux 3
    Audi A4, BMW 3, MB C
    ~ $ 39,000
    CT3
    A2S
    ~ WB: 108 in | L: 180 in
    Lux 2
    Audi A3, MB CLA
    ~ $ 32,500

    Cadillac's strategy to restructure and fill the gaps in its portfolio | 2018-2021: Hidden Content

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    Re: Schedule of upcoming Cadillac releases | 2018-2021

    Quote Originally Posted by richmond2000 View Post
    so with the DEATH of the CTS AND ATS-L and both being replaced with ONE CT4 will it be designed around REAR leg room OR more overall room but NOT rear ROOM IE more like the ATS-L OR the CTS?

    I like the idea of the Escalade BECOMING its OWN vehicle and NOT a "rebadge" of a CHEVY/GMC product

    I hope it includes IRS or at least some proper solution to the "hack" of a rear load floor / 3RD row seating
    Long overdue, especially the column shifter.. The Tahoe is an excellent vehicle, but its not a Cadillac.

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    Re: Schedule of upcoming Cadillac releases | 2018-2021

    Quote Originally Posted by sfbreh View Post
    I'd stand to argue that your CTS is probably closer to "par" than CT6. I think yours is nicer.

    CT6 I would not say is a direct competitor in any way to the above cars; it strikes me as a change in strategy, which I think you would agree with. I also would like to believe it and XT5's shortcomings are hiccups, and that Escala really signals where the brand is heading.
    Right, that's why I left the CT6 out. I feel like something happened during development, possibly assembly cost on these new aluminum techniques rose a lot more than anticipated, which is why the horn cover went from leather, to fake leather, and now it's leather again.

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    Re: Schedule of upcoming Cadillac releases | 2018-2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Accardi View Post
    I've heard from a fairly good source nothing above CT6 is coming. At least not anytime we would consider soon.
    "I do not know the sources of your information, but must assume they cannot be very high ranking, certainly they do not have access to the full spectrum of information.

    We ARE planning a Cadillac flagship which will NOT be a 4 door sedan. [...] These programs are secure and development work is well underway, with very substantial costs already committed."

    By: Johan de Nysschen, President Cadillac.

    Cadillac's strategy to restructure and fill the gaps in its portfolio | 2018-2021: Hidden Content

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    Re: Schedule of upcoming Cadillac releases | 2018-2021

    Still no mention of a Tesla competitor. Lots of them coming from the Germans, and even Jaguar. Cadillac's newfound shun of the electric car is going to make them appear less and less relevant at the dawn of the new decade.

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    Re: Schedule of upcoming Cadillac releases | 2018-2021

    Quote Originally Posted by dslay04 View Post
    ATS-L will just become the CTS, they've fixed the rear bench bar that has been reducing leg room by 2-3 inches. IF the wheel base is stretch an extra inch or 2 for the CTS, then there really is no purpose for an ATS-L.
    I remember reading that there wont be any new extended versions for the Chinese market but that future models will be designed with them in mind. I do believe the sedans will be tweeners going forward. The CT4 growing to 2nd gen CTS levels and CT5 staying about the same as the current CTS but of course gaining the much needed interior volume.
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    Re: Schedule of upcoming Cadillac releases | 2018-2021

    Quote Originally Posted by GMSilverado View Post
    Sfbreh, in a celebrated online response, the president of Cadillac says the following: "We ARE planning a new Lux 3 sedan entry; [...] (and) a new Lux 2 sedan entry."

    Which segments does he refer to with "Lux 2" and "Lux 3"? In the second paragraph of that same answer there is a clue. He establishes a link between the flagship (F segment) with "Lux 5". Based on this, Johan de Nysschen divides the global luxury market as follows:


    • Lux 5 = F Segment: Audi A8, BMW 7-Series, MB S-Class.
    • Lux 4 = E Segment: Audi A6, BMW 5-Series, MB E-Class.
    • Lux 3 = D Segment: Audi A4, BMW 3-Series, MB C-Class.
    • Lux 2 = C Segment: Audi A3 Sedan, next BMW 2-Series Gran Coupe, MB CLA.
    • Lux 1 = B Segment: Audi A3 HB, BMW 1-Series, MB A-Class.


    So, this is what he is actually saying: "We ARE planning a new D-Segment sedan entry; [...] (and) a new C-Segment sedan entry."

    Trying to build the puzzle starting from the current sedan scheme is to waste time. The CT3 will not be a "next ATS", nor will the CT5 a ​​"next CTS" simply because "in the future those cars will disappear." Even the car we know today as CT6, having been conceived in the planning department of GM erratically as the "flagship" of Cadillac, is also a distraction that can obstruct the vision for the future portfolio of the brand:

    The arrival of the CT8 in 2021 will imply a redefinition to the current concept of the CT6 for its second generation, which again will have the initial role in the next offensive of product from 2022.

    As we read a few months ago, JDN suggested to Automotive News that the idea of the executives is to merge the current scheme of the CT6 with the proposal of the Escala concept and materialize it in the CT8, that with dimensions in an intermediate point between both will be the unique car of full size of Cadillac.

    This very possibly means that the next CT6 will experience a reduction in its dimensions, which will definitively locate it among the extended versions of the E-segment models or Lux 4: ~ 119-inch wheelbase (- 3.4), and a length of 198.2 inches (- 5.8).

    Cadillac Saloons Portfolio | 2022
    Model
    Platform
    Dimensions
    Seg.
    Competition
    Start price
    CT8
    O2L
    ~ WB: 124 in | L: 206.5 in
    Lux 5
    Audi A8, BMW 7, MB S
    ~ $ 77,800
    Next CT6
    O2
    ~ WB: 119 in | L: 198.2
    Lux 4
    Audi A6, BMW 5, MB E
    ~ $ 53,800
    CT4
    A2L
    ~ WB: 113.6 in | L: 190 in
    Lux 3
    Audi A4, BMW 3, MB C
    ~ $ 39,000
    CT3
    A2S
    ~ WB: 108 in | L: 180 in
    Lux 2
    Audi A3, MB CLA
    ~ $ 32,500
    The source:

    It’s not so much an issue of Cadillac programs which have been “cancelled”. The only item which is correct, is the change in planning for a Lux 5 flagship sedan, versus the plan which was previously reported to our dealers. Rather than calling it a “cancellation”, I prefer to consider the change to the flagship program as a revision to what will constitute the Cadillac flagship. There will be a flagship, but given the segment development, it will not be a large four door sedan.

    We ARE planning a Cadillac flagship which will NOT be a 4 door sedan;
    We ARE planning a large crossover beneath Escalade;
    We ARE planning a compact crossover beneath XT5;
    We ARE planning a comprehensive enhancement to CT6 later during life cycle;
    We ARE planning a major refresh for XTS;
    We ARE planning a new Lux 3 sedan entry;
    We ARE planning a new Lux 2 sedan entry;
    None of this contradicts with what I've suggested. They can still be planning a CT2; it's just been delayed.

    You're getting a refreshed XTS. You're getting an updated CT6 (wow). You're getting XT4. You're getting XT6/7 (whatever it is). You're getting a new "Lux 3," i.e. ATS is being re-imagined.

    You're planning a Cadillac flagship that will not be a 4 door sedan... you can interpret that as a 4 door liftback, but I think that's "not knowing when to let go."

    An SUV still qualifies. Does a sports car? They're very likely doing both. They have not included "coupes, convertibles" or "a small crossover below XT4" at a bare minimum. Never mentioned a sports car.

    You have an interesting theory, but I don't see it. Maybe a NEXT iteration of each after the "current" next iteration. That's almost 10 years away at this point.

    Where's CT5? It's coming, it exists. It's A2LL. CT3 is A2SL. CT2 is D2JL. CT6 is O1SL. It's a reasonable assumption to assume O1SL turns into O2SL.

    They're not doing TWO O2xx sedans, even if one has a liftback. They've telegraphed it as clearly as they can. Sedans are in the ****ter, and they don't have the cash to waste on low volume duplicate products or VOLUME to go toe-to-toe with their competitors and deliver A+ product like they need to.

    We'll know soon enough. CT5 will probably be a deadspot in China and hamper already size-restricted sales of CT6 in the US.

    The smart move would be a lineup like you've suggested (CT4–CT6–CT8) with an XTS 2.0 CT5 shoehorned in there somewhere; unless, of course, there's some evidence that those Chinese XTS buyers will leap into a CT6 if they have no other option.

    Quote Originally Posted by dslay04 View Post
    Right, that's why I left the CT6 out. I feel like something happened during development, possibly assembly cost on these new aluminum techniques rose a lot more than anticipated, which is why the horn cover went from leather, to fake leather, and now it's leather again.
    I'm not sure what the hell happened, but they done goofed on it and the XT5 controls. Plastics blow, but I'm not going to harp on them.

    Quote Originally Posted by GMSilverado View Post
    "I do not know the sources of your information, but must assume they cannot be very high ranking, certainly they do not have access to the full spectrum of information.

    We ARE planning a Cadillac flagship which will NOT be a 4 door sedan. [...] These programs are secure and development work is well underway, with very substantial costs already committed."

    By: Johan de Nysschen, President Cadillac.
    Still betting it's a RWD crossover and not a sedan.

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    Re: Schedule of upcoming Cadillac releases | 2018-2021

    I hope this helps Cadillac sales ...I've lost interest in Cadillac at this point.

    I don't know why but I'm just done with the brand...

    Could be the massive price upgrades as a purposeful theme or could be I'm just not as interested in the styling.

    The performance is kick butt....yet the styling just feels staid compared to the showcars and the early days of art and science..

    Having driven my present Cadillac to the tesla dealer and test driving there is just no comparision in quietness....

    For me? Luxury has become quietness as I drive down the road...

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