First Drive Review: 2019 Cadillac CT6 - Page 3

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Thread: First Drive Review: 2019 Cadillac CT6

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    Re: First Drive Review: 2019 Cadillac CT6

    I have sworn off buying a passenger car - in favor of SUVs and trucks. I just like them better. BUT, if I won the lottery, I would consider buying a CT6. It just looks like a modern Caddy should look. It has the style and sophistication a proper Cadillac should.

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    Re: First Drive Review: 2019 Cadillac CT6

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    but the more sales Cadillac has, the more resources GM will throw at them - no matter where the market is.
    Totally matters where the market is and how much in resources GM throws at it.
    Isn't the "new" GM all about profits, ROI, ATPs etc? If China can't produce the appropriate returns then cut it loose like all the other regions, that's also the new GM.

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    Re: First Drive Review: 2019 Cadillac CT6

    I know there is a desire to keep Omega a Cadillac exclusive, but spread the love to Buick and let them build the Avenir concept as a flagship sedan and a GT style coupe like the Avista concept that takes cues from the Grand National of the 80s. Cadillac is moving away from coupes, so let Buick fill that void. The two Buicks don't need V8s, they can make due with TTV6s with hybrids. Even downsize the Avenir so it's smaller than the CT6 but slightly bigger than the CT5.

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    Re: First Drive Review: 2019 Cadillac CT6

    Quote Originally Posted by kool1 View Post
    I totally understand that the sedan market is much smaller but you have to be there. Biggest shock to me is still that GM has no compact sedan to compete with Civic/Corolla etc. It's killing me that my daughter is shopping for a Elantra instead of a Cruze.
    Don't despair, Elantra is an excellent car with lots of variants. And if she wants to totally ruin your week instead of just your day she can go drive some Soul food.
    Last edited by Neanderthal; 07-09-2019 at 11:26 PM.
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    Re: First Drive Review: 2019 Cadillac CT6

    The problem is Caddy is flush with good sedans and below average utilities, and they are having a helluva time getting the investments moved to utilities. They just don't have the foundation there and put too much into the wrong products.
    Last edited by BORG; 07-09-2019 at 02:06 PM.

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    Re: First Drive Review: 2019 Cadillac CT6

    Quote Originally Posted by PastorChevyGuy View Post
    I know there is a desire to keep Omega a Cadillac exclusive, but spread the love to Buick and let them build the Avenir concept as a flagship sedan and a GT style coupe like the Avista concept that takes cues from the Grand National of the 80s. Cadillac is moving away from coupes, so let Buick fill that void. The two Buicks don't need V8s, they can make due with TTV6s with hybrids. Even downsize the Avenir so it's smaller than the CT6 but slightly bigger than the CT5.
    So that GM would have 3 more slow selling, costly products? Be serious.
    Last edited by megeebee; 07-09-2019 at 07:00 PM.
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    Re: First Drive Review: 2019 Cadillac CT6

    Quote Originally Posted by megeebee View Post
    So that GM have 3 more slow selling, costly products? Be serious.
    I think the problem may be that Omega being a mixed Al/Steel platform is expensive to make. If the platform is expensive, making Buick/Chevy variants is just not possible at attainable price points. And as megeebee points out, sedans are already not moving.

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    Re: First Drive Review: 2019 Cadillac CT6

    Quote Originally Posted by GMOwner View Post
    Omega platform is in the right direction for me (regardless of propulsion), but, the current CT4/5 etc. to me seem to much like lowered CUVs than anything else. So, I think part of the direction change for GM was to create sedans lowered CUVs instead of CUVs as lifted hatchbacks...
    I wish the CT4 had the packaging of a lowered CUV! The CT4 is just an ATS rehash and the CT5 is a re-proportioned CTS, so they will pretty much have the same h-points and sight-lines.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    What about the CT5 and CT4 are "lowered CUV's"? I'm don't see what you are, especially being on the alpha chassis... I suspect the CT4 will sit as low to the ground as my ATS, the same car my wife feels vulnerable in because it is so low to the ground and small.
    For me the CT4 is the ATS v2.0, so I'd guess the ride height is the same. Hopefully I'll get one as a loaner next time my ATS is in for service!

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    Re: First Drive Review: 2019 Cadillac CT6

    Quote Originally Posted by megeebee View Post
    So that GM have 3 more slow selling, costly products? Be serious.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vagon11 View Post
    I think the problem may be that Omega being a mixed Al/Steel platform is expensive to make. If the platform is expensive, making Buick/Chevy variants is just not possible at attainable price points. And as megeebee points out, sedans are already not moving.
    More products means the price to make will go down.

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    Re: First Drive Review: 2019 Cadillac CT6

    Quote Originally Posted by PastorChevyGuy View Post
    More products means the price to make will go down.
    Only if those products sell in some kind of volume.

    Buick can't sell the La Crosse and the car is being discontinued. Why do they need another?

    As for a coupe, Lexus sold 1979 LC's in all of last year and only 668 so far this year.

    There is no "void" in Cadillac Coupe sales for Buick to take. The ATS Coupe has found 893 buyers so far this year.

    No, the only savior for the Omega platform is Cadillac product.
    Last edited by megeebee; 07-09-2019 at 07:06 PM.
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    Re: First Drive Review: 2019 Cadillac CT6

    Quote Originally Posted by kool1 View Post
    More likely another CUV
    Gawd I hope not. Sedans may be down, but they are not out. Just look around at the other luxury makes, they all seem to be holding on to them and not ditching them like GM.

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    Re: First Drive Review: 2019 Cadillac CT6

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    though if they do discontinue it, I assume it will be replaced with an electric vehicle.
    At what price; that the market is clamoring for?.....................

    (thinking about ELR)


    Quote Originally Posted by kool1 View Post
    I totally understand that the sedan market is much smaller but you have to be there. Biggest shock to me is still that GM has no compact sedan to compete with Civic/Corolla etc. It's killing me that my daughter is shopping for a Elantra instead of a Cruze.
    Can't you still get a Cruze? We still have a decent amount around here in Michigan.


    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    Wow - annualized that is 266k vehicles! Annualizing USA results is another 150k vehicles - combined that's 416,000, throw in the rest of the worldwide sales (I know - pretty small outside of USA/China)and they are approaching 500,000.
    YTD sales are 179K.............. anualized ( x 2) would be in the ~360K range.

    Something really weird going on with GM sales in China; Cadillac is up 18K, but the other GM brands are down over 120K combined (and all of them are down).
    - Are they rebranding Buick dealerships?



    Quote Originally Posted by PastorChevyGuy View Post
    More products means the price to make will go down.
    Sure, but you need good volume to overcome the R & D costs. What is cheaper; build 100,000 of 1 car or building 1 of 100,000 different cars?
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    Re: First Drive Review: 2019 Cadillac CT6

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed753 View Post
    At what price; that the market is clamoring for?.....................

    (thinking about ELR)




    Can't you still get a Cruze? We still have a decent amount around here in Michigan.




    YTD sales are 179K.............. anualized ( x 2) would be in the ~360K range.

    Something really weird going on with GM sales in China; Cadillac is up 18K, but the other GM brands are down over 120K combined (and all of them are down).
    - Are they rebranding Buick dealerships?





    Sure, but you need good volume to overcome the R & D costs. What is cheaper; build 100,000 of 1 car or building 1 of 100,000 different cars?
    I'm thinking and electric CT6 could be priced ~$5k more than today's CT6, that should be in the customer's wheelhouse for such an expensive vehicle. I don't think the ELR is a good comparison as it started with the bones of a Chevy selling for half the price, being that the propulsion system wasn't materially changed that left people thinking they are being charged twice the $$ for a nicer interior. In other words, the ELR, though beautiful, was a tough sell before anyone even sat in it.

    My hope is that GM makes Cadillacs electric first vs. starting with Chevy. It is much easier to trickle down high end to low end vs. trying to do the opposite and take a Chevy and turn it into a Cadillac. I get that GM and everyone else was trying to copy the Prius success, but they missed the boat with the cheapness factor of the Prius. I'd say the Prius was an anomaly and most new tech needs to start from the luxury brands and trickle down.

    I did take the Q2 China results and multiply by 4 to get the 266k units, but yes the YTD of 179k x 2 is the 360k, add that to the 150k USA (I think I used 75k YTD on that one) and it is 508k units. So the 500k goal is in striking distance if the H2 results are similar to H1 (though with the tariff war going on, I wonder if the Chinese consumer will back away from American makes for image sake). I don't think anyone was hoping they'd hit 500k units this way (with China leading the way and heavy on CUV in the USA), but I don't think GM ever specified how they'd get there. I wonder how this aligns with internal expectations, I suspect this is what they had in mind all along.

    And as far as Buick being down and Cadillac up, no clue. Maybe something to do with public perception of the trade war? Even though both Buick and Cadillac are built in China and mostly exempt, maybe Buick has a more American image and the Chinese consumer are shunning it? Or is the product getting long in the tooth?

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    Re: First Drive Review: 2019 Cadillac CT6

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed753 View Post
    Sure, but you need good volume to overcome the R & D costs. What is cheaper; build 100,000 of 1 car or building 1 of 100,000 different cars?
    Adding two other cars would be better than just having the one currently with the current sales.

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    Re: First Drive Review: 2019 Cadillac CT6

    Quote Originally Posted by megeebee View Post
    Only if those products sell in some kind of volume.

    Buick can't sell the La Crosse and the car is being discontinued. Why do they need another?

    As for a coupe, Lexus sold 1979 LC's in all of last year and only 668 so far this year.

    There is no "void" in Cadillac Coupe sales for Buick to take. The ATS Coupe has found 893 buyers so far this year.

    No, the only savior for the Omega platform is Cadillac product.
    Those coupe numbers are depressing for me: 14 of my 16 cars have been coupes.

    Well I've always liked having a car that you don't see in every driveway. With my ATS Coupe, I've got one. Honestly, I don't think I've seen five of them on the road.

    But if Cadillac really wants to compete with BMW and Mercedes, I think it needs to offer competing models. Maybe not model for model up and down the line, but something. One coupe and, please, a convertible. And with the ATS, I think that launch was two years late and was just botched. There was no need to stagger the coupe and sedan launch the way BMW does. When BMW does it, they're replacing existing cars. The ATS wasn't replacing anything. They should have launched coupe, sedan, and convertible at the same time. Maybe there would have been more of an impact.

    I used to hear that a convertible ATS was planned. I wonder if that was ever true. I'd be driving one today.
    Last edited by ksr; 07-10-2019 at 08:27 AM.
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