Do American luxury brands have a future?

  1. Welcome to GM Inside News Forum – General discussion forum for GM

    Welcome to GM Inside News Forum - a website dedicated to all things GM.

    You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, Join GM Inside News Forum today!
     
Page 1 of 10 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 143

Thread: Do American luxury brands have a future?

  1. #1
    News Contributor Premium Member Perian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    8,213
    Thanks
    76
    Thanked 2,727 Times in 1,016 Posts
    My Ride
    2017 Jaguar F-Type (Manual)

    Do American luxury brands have a future?

    The Detroit News
    December 27, 2018

    Cadillac has built a garage-full of great cars in the last 20 years, and American luxury buyers yawned. Lincoln has created SUVs with gorgeous interiors and reworked its sales and service without a whiff of interest from owners of Acura and Infiniti, much less leaders like Audi, BMW and Mercedes.

    If America’s native luxury brands can’t gain traction in 2019, it may never happen.

    Cadillac has three key vehicles coming: a new version of its flagship Escalade SUV; the long-awaited XT6 three-row SUV arrives to compete with the Audi Q7 and Volvo XC90; and an all-new CT5 sport sedan will try to generate excitement by adding new looks and features to the dynamics that made the CTS a critical favorite.

    Lincoln will introduce the Aviator, a luxurious and classy-looking three-row SUV that offers a plug-in hybrid model, and also goes after XC90 and Q7 buyers.

    Every new Cadillac for a decade has had some shortcoming that allowed luxury buyers to dismiss it. Lincoln has struggled even longer because only the massive Navigator seemed to get its best effort.

    It’s past time to remedy that.








    .

  2. Remove Advertisements
    GM Inside News
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    News Contributor Premium Member Perian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    8,213
    Thanks
    76
    Thanked 2,727 Times in 1,016 Posts
    My Ride
    2017 Jaguar F-Type (Manual)

    Re: Do American luxury brands have a future?

    Every new Cadillac for a decade has had some shortcoming that allowed luxury buyers to dismiss it.
    Read the above sentence to yourself 5 times, and then tell me how this could have possibly happened.

    One for study at the Harvard Business School: How did Cadillac miss the SUV/CUV movement?









    .

  4. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Perian For This Useful Post:

    377Z (12-30-2018),buildacariwant (12-28-2018),CJH (12-28-2018),DequindreToo (12-29-2018),Extreme4x4 (12-30-2018),Mentat Bashar (12-29-2018),RedSkyBlackDream (12-31-2018),ryannel2003 (12-28-2018),steve333 (12-28-2018)

  5. #3
    3.0 Liter SIDI V6 tripowergto Jan2003's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Rockin' Rowland, PA
    Posts
    630
    Thanks
    433
    Thanked 832 Times in 339 Posts

    Re: Do American luxury brands have a future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perian View Post
    How did Cadillac miss the SUV/CUV movement?
    That's easy, they were too busy trying to eclipse BMW sedans without the German cache.
    2018 Hot Wheels 2SS Camaro Conv ~ 2016 2LT Corvette 7spd ~ 2017 Camaro RS V6 6spd ~ 2014 Chevy Volt ~ 2009 Pontiac G8 GT ~ 2002 Firebird Formula 6spd

  6. The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to tripowergto Jan2003 For This Useful Post:

    1958carnut (12-28-2018),377Z (12-30-2018),buildacariwant (12-28-2018),CJH (12-28-2018),DequindreToo (12-29-2018),Ed753 (12-28-2018),Evo69 (12-31-2018),Mentat Bashar (12-29-2018),Mr.Buttons (12-28-2018),richmond2000 (12-28-2018),SierraGS (01-06-2019),steve333 (12-28-2018)

  7. Remove Advertisements
    GM Inside News
    Advertisements
     

  8. #4
    2.4 Liter SIDI ECOTEC Rumpole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    241
    Thanks
    306
    Thanked 338 Times in 127 Posts
    My Ride
    06 Cadillac CTSV

    Re: Do American luxury brands have a future?

    I was in a meeting with Cadillac execs about 2010-12 for a product plan overview. They hated the SUV/CUV movement. They couldn't wait to end the Escalade and SRX. They intentionally ignored it in favor of sedans until it was too late to be ignored.

  9. The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to Rumpole For This Useful Post:

    1958carnut (12-28-2018),377Z (12-30-2018),BlackGTP (12-30-2018),buildacariwant (12-28-2018),CJH (12-28-2018),DequindreToo (12-29-2018),Evo69 (12-31-2018),Extreme4x4 (12-30-2018),kmacleod (12-29-2018),Mentat Bashar (12-29-2018),ryannel2003 (12-28-2018),SierraGS (01-01-2019),XP300 (12-28-2018)

  10. #5
    6.0 Liter L76 V8
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,401
    Thanks
    2,029
    Thanked 2,264 Times in 1,056 Posts

    Re: Do American luxury brands have a future?

    Quote Originally Posted by tripowergto Jan2003 View Post
    That's easy, they were too busy trying to eclipse BMW sedans without the German cache.
    The greatest irony is while Cadillac was aiming at where BMW once was, BMW was moving in a bigger, softer direction which included a heavy dose of crossovers. American companies have never been very good a reading the market, but rather always find themselves playing catch up.
    Last edited by SP1966; 12-28-2018 at 11:11 AM.

  11. #6
    CJH
    CJH is offline
    6.2 Liter LS3 V8 CJH's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    MinnesoTAX
    Posts
    3,473
    Thanks
    4,155
    Thanked 1,483 Times in 856 Posts
    My Ride
    Audi S4, Merc GL

    Re: Do American luxury brands have a future?

    Lincoln has created SUVs with gorgeous interiors and reworked its sales and service without a whiff of interest from owners of Acura and Infiniti, much less leaders like Audi, BMW and Mercedes.
    Hogwash. I was recently SUV shopping and stopped in at the local Lincoln Dealership. 1) They sold every Navigator they had in stock. 2) Three of them were sold to (and traded in) a Cadillac Escalade, Mercedes GLS, and an Infiniti QX80. While ancedotal, that's hardly "not getting a whiff of interest" from competitors.

    Lincoln has struggled even longer because only the massive Navigator seemed to get its best effort.
    Until the new one, the Navigator has NOT gotten Lincoln's best effort for 20 years. Who wrote this garbage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumpole View Post
    I was in a meeting with Cadillac execs about 2010-12 for a product plan overview. They hated the SUV/CUV movement. They couldn't wait to end the Escalade and SRX. They intentionally ignored it in favor of sedans until it was too late to be ignored.
    That explains a lot, and sheds light on their incompetence, considering SUV's are the most profitable product sold in the market.
    Last edited by CJH; 12-28-2018 at 12:41 PM.
    Hidden Content Originally Posted by CJH Hidden Content
    Don't be loyal to a company, be loyal to good product and service.
    Past Rides:
    Audi A6 4.2L
    QX80 - @Big Salvage Yard in the Sky
    Audi S4 2.7TT
    Durango Limited Hemi 5.7L
    Ford Explorer 5.0L
    Pontiac Grand AM 3.4L
    Chevy Corsica 3.0L
    Toyota Tercel "Turdcel"
    Ford LTD Station Wagon 5.0L "Blue Thunder"

  12. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to CJH For This Useful Post:

    377Z (12-30-2018),BlackGTP (12-30-2018),Extreme4x4 (12-30-2018)

  13. #7
    ksr
    ksr is offline
    6.2 Liter LS9 Supercharged V8 ksr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Hilton Head Island, SC
    Posts
    6,327
    Thanks
    847
    Thanked 2,514 Times in 1,165 Posts

    Re: Do American luxury brands have a future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perian View Post
    Read the above sentence to yourself 5 times, and then tell me how this could have possibly happened.

    One for study at the Harvard Business School: How did Cadillac miss the SUV/CUV movement?









    .

    GM missed the initial move to SUVs back when the Explorer became a massive hit in the late 1980s. Before that, they missed the market turning away from coupes to sedans when they launched the GM-10 program coupes first, with sedans following two years later. Always late to the party.

    There are shortcomings in cars from any of Cadillac's competitors. Those buyers never see it or are willing to overlook it. With Cadillac, a rough piece of plastic discovered only when cramming your arm under the front seat to retrieve a dropped wallet is enough to make buyers shun their vehicles. It's all perception and I'm beginning to believe that it isn't just difficult to change, it's impossible. At least for an American brand. If GM bought Honda and changed absolutely nothing and let Honda be Honda, from management on down, on GMI within 60 days at most, you'd read comments like, "Honda just isn't trying anymore with their interiors."

    At this point, I don't think there's much hope on the car side. On the CUV/SUV side, the market is such that if you just build it, the buyers will come.
    Last edited by ksr; 12-28-2018 at 11:16 AM.
    Drives a 2019 Cadillac ATS Coupe and a 1988 Pontiac Trans Am GTA.

    In the past, I've had a 5th gen Camaro, a CTS sedan and coupe, two 3rd gen Firebird Formulas, a convertible 4th gen Trans Am, a Reatta, a couple of Monte Carlos, an Avenger coupe, a couple of Cavalier hatchbacks, a Saturn SC1, and a Cherokee.

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to ksr For This Useful Post:

    impala02 (12-29-2018)

  15. #8
    6.2 Liter LS3 V8 XP300's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    3,406
    Thanks
    1,558
    Thanked 600 Times in 297 Posts

    Re: Do American luxury brands have a future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumpole View Post
    I was in a meeting with Cadillac execs about 2010-12 for a product plan overview. They hated the SUV/CUV movement. They couldn't wait to end the Escalade and SRX. They intentionally ignored it in favor of sedans until it was too late to be ignored.
    Instead of headquarters in New York, Cadillac should have moved their headquarters to a building in a large shopping center (Mall), with a view of the main parking lot. Lots of vehicles there, mostly SUV's and CUV'S. Maybe it would benefit if GM had their headquarters out of an Ivory Tower and move there too!
    -
    The two enemies of the people are criminals and the government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution, so the second will not become the legalized version of the first - Thomas Jefferson
    -

  16. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to XP300 For This Useful Post:

    DequindreToo (12-29-2018),Mentat Bashar (12-29-2018),sfbreh (12-28-2018)

  17. #9
    6.2 Liter LS9 Supercharged V8
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    England
    Posts
    7,384
    Thanks
    666
    Thanked 2,266 Times in 1,767 Posts
    My Ride
    VW Touareg 3.0 V6 TDI

    Re: Do American luxury brands have a future?

    Quote Originally Posted by XP300 View Post
    Instead of headquarters in New York, Cadillac should have moved their headquarters to a building in a large shopping center (Mall), with a view of the main parking lot. Lots of vehicles there, mostly SUV's and CUV'S. Maybe it would benefit if GM had their headquarters out of an Ivory Tower and move there too!
    Just link a closed circuit tv camera of a parking lot into Cadillac's boardroom

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to Ruperts Trooper For This Useful Post:

    CJH (12-28-2018)

  19. #10
    6.0 Liter L76 V8 gkr778's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Southaven, Mississippi USA
    Posts
    2,063
    Thanks
    2,345
    Thanked 1,809 Times in 959 Posts
    My Ride
    2014 BMW 320i and '72 Nova

    Re: Do American luxury brands have a future?

    Quote Originally Posted by ksr View Post
    On the CUV/SUV side, the market is such that if you just build it, the buyers will come.
    Yup. GM can count on the "sheep" to purchase or lease their CUV/SUVs despite their shortcomings.

    My wife and I won't be among them, though. We test drove a Cadillac XT4 a couple days ago and were surprised at how unrefined the powertrain was. And the XT4 is completely bereft of the magical chassis tuning Cadillac imbued in its Alpha and Omega sedans.
    God and guns keep us strong. That's what this country was founded on. - Lynyrd Skynyrd

  20. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to gkr778 For This Useful Post:

    Engelman (12-29-2018),Extreme4x4 (12-30-2018),sfbreh (12-28-2018)

  21. #11
    2.8 Liter Turbocharged V6
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    957
    Thanks
    100
    Thanked 220 Times in 125 Posts

    Re: Do American luxury brands have a future?

    I think GM or american Lux makers need to understand one thing :

    Rich are rich because they are smart, they spend there money wisely. They spend money on quality products. So they have standards for quality , value etc on a Lux products.

    What american lux brands target is pseudo rich. They are not rich, they just have big ego and no money, they are bargain hunters, pseudo luxury product hunters. They will happily accept a chevy with cheap plastics and a different grill as their product. Once they realize they are cheated to core, these brands will shut down.

  22. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to uvikrama For This Useful Post:

    1958carnut (12-28-2018),377Z (12-30-2018),gkr778 (12-28-2018),sfbreh (12-28-2018)

  23. #12
    6.2 Liter LS9 Supercharged V8 richmond2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Winterpeg
    Posts
    8,382
    Thanks
    8,925
    Thanked 1,519 Times in 1,101 Posts
    My Ride
    2014 RAM 1500 HEMI

    Re: Do American luxury brands have a future?

    Quote Originally Posted by ksr View Post
    GM missed the initial move to SUVs back when the Explorer became a massive hit in the late 1980s. Before that, they missed the market turning away from coupes to sedans when they launched the GM-10 program coupes first, with sedans following two years later. Always late to the party.

    There are shortcomings in cars from any of Cadillac's competitors. Those buyers never see it or are willing to overlook it. With Cadillac, a rough piece of plastic discovered only when cramming your arm under the front seat to retrieve a dropped wallet is enough to make buyers shun their vehicles. It's all perception and I'm beginning to believe that it isn't just difficult to change, it's impossible. At least for an American brand. If GM bought Honda and changed absolutely nothing and let Honda be Honda, from management on down, on GMI within 60 days at most, you'd read comments like, "Honda just isn't trying anymore with their interiors."

    At this point, I don't think there's much hope on the car side. On the CUV/SUV side, the market is such that if you just build it, the buyers will come.
    I disagree - YES the German 3 have issues BUT between the 3 of them the "issues" are covered well enough and day to day the AMERICAN cars do NOT excel in ANY category TOP track performance is of LTTLE value on a day to day commute

    also with a lot of "good enough" products most people dismiss caddy as there is NOTHING to make them look/remember there cars
    the MK I CTS V with a V8 and a 6 speed stick WAS AN ATTENTION GRABBER and GAINED "street cred"

    as for Honda a LOT of people complain about the cheap interiors BUT the YEARS of constantly TOP shelf products and a "fun to drive" - low cost to own experience has "cemented" Honda's reputation just remember the 2011? CIVIC that they SCREWED UP BAD ENOUGH they had an EMERGENCY redesign one year later

  24. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to richmond2000 For This Useful Post:

    CJH (12-28-2018),joey (12-30-2018)

  25. #13
    6.2 Liter LS9 Supercharged V8 RamJet502's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    7,173
    Thanks
    1,033
    Thanked 818 Times in 376 Posts
    My Ride
    2001 Chevy Silverado

    Re: Do American luxury brands have a future?

    Cadillac has been half assing cars for a long time. They put the 3.6L in vehicles that needed the 3.0TT, premium vehicles deserve premium powerplants.

    BUT, Cadillac has hit a homerun with the Escalade since the day it was envisioned. If they can continue to be the gold standard for large luxury SUV's their future will be solid.

  26. The Following User Says Thank You to RamJet502 For This Useful Post:

    Evo69 (12-31-2018)

  27. #14
    2.4 Liter SIDI ECOTEC mr_bots's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Land of Enchantment
    Posts
    329
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 23 Times in 15 Posts

    Re: Do American luxury brands have a future?

    I never understood they're thinking. "Crossovers and SUVs are selling like crazy and sedans are collapsing. Let's spend billions designing and building a 3 series and 5 series competitor with better handling and overall dynamics but with the most generic instrument cluster anyone has seen in 25 years, an almost unusable backseat and a slow, touch sensitive infotainment systems everyone will hate and then take our aging but well thought of SRX and move it to the smaller, overweight, FWD Equinox platform."
    "It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office." -H. L. Mencken

  28. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to mr_bots For This Useful Post:

    377Z (12-30-2018),XP300 (01-04-2019)

  29. #15
    R2-D2 Astromech Droid sfbreh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    19,194
    Thanks
    7,590
    Thanked 8,699 Times in 5,615 Posts

    Re: Do American luxury brands have a future?

    Quote Originally Posted by CJH View Post
    Hogwash. I was recently SUV shopping and stopped in at the local Lincoln Dealership. 1) They sold every Navigator they had in stock. 2) Three of them were sold to (and traded in) a Cadillac Escalade, Mercedes GLS, and an Infiniti QX80. While ancedotal, that's hardly "not getting a whiff of interest" from competitors.
    And not only that, but they bend over backwards trying to sell their cars. The delivered a brand new Black Label Navigator to my house for a test drive. I bought a Mercedes instead. It was delivered yesterday.

    E450 4matic cab, Diamond White with a blue roof and the Macchiato Beige/Yacht Blue nappa interior with the natural elm wood interior. No Driver Assist because I didn't want it, no ABC or Warmth and Comfort package because the guy didn't check the boxes and specced it identically to a car just sold vs maxed out, and HUD supply was constrained when I built it, so I said fuhgettaboutit.




    Ignore my grass and the lack of shrubbery in front of my porch. I'm replacing my water line going to the curb and replacing the grass with sod, and don't want to do it twice. The bushes came down because they were hideous and I never picked out new ones. I only have so much time in a day.

    I still have my Accord. The long-term plan is to buy a second house down the shore and drop this car there, and either replace or supplement my Accord—right now, most probably with a Gladiator.

    American brands have no future if they behave like Cadillac. Lincoln isn't, but it has about even chances of being taken remotely seriously as a luxury brand as Cadillac does right now, and that's not saying much; however, Cadillac's trajectory is stalling or sinking and its long-term prospects are abysmal regardless of what product they plan to fumble into production because their leadership is tone deaf and incompetent, while Lincoln's is ascendant.

    Cadillac lost me as a fan and potential customer because I feel they've done nothing but trip over their own **** and spit in my eye, producing compromised cars of middling quality to boot.

    I picked the E, but I had them all ready to go—Escalade Platinum, Navigator Black Label, a few different versions of the 911, Panamera 4S, Macan Turbo, E63, etc. Cadillac had a single vehicle in the running, Buick had none because the new Regal is horrible, GMC had absolutely nothing, and I looked at a few Camaros but GM's factory-closing stunt and restructuring took them out of the hunt.

    Permanently? Maybe. But in the immediate term, they definitely missed out on a potential sale ranging from $80k-$150k (with at least another $140k worth of approvals at rival Mercedes for an S560 or a new G-wagen still on the table that I have the option of pursuing, but probably won't) because GM is a retarded company that is incapable of doing anything other than stagnating, being tone deaf, and managing their IP into the dirt.

    I'm far from incompetent, and I won't patronize a company or brand that telegraphs anything BUT competence.

  30. The Following 18 Users Say Thank You to sfbreh For This Useful Post:

    1958carnut (12-29-2018),AMERICA 123 (01-19-2019),BlackGTP (12-30-2018),CJH (12-28-2018),criticalmass (12-31-2018),DequindreToo (12-29-2018),Dovetonsils (12-28-2018),Ed753 (12-28-2018),Extreme4x4 (01-01-2019),gkr778 (12-29-2018),mbukukanyau (12-28-2018),Mentat Bashar (12-29-2018),mgescuro (01-11-2019),Mr.Buttons (12-28-2018),richmond2000 (12-29-2018),ryannel2003 (12-28-2018),scotth3886 (01-02-2019),XP300 (12-29-2018)

  31. Remove Advertisements
    GM Inside News
    Advertisements
     

Page 1 of 10 123 ... LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.1.2