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Thread: Carlisle: Time for Cadillac to just to be Cadillac again

  1. #121
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    Re: Carlisle: Time for Cadillac to just to be Cadillac again

    Quote Originally Posted by eaton53 View Post
    It's not old, it was just refreshed in 2018.
    Bumper facias and a deck lid don't it new.
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    Re: Carlisle: Time for Cadillac to just to be Cadillac again

    Quote Originally Posted by megeebee View Post
    I disgaree.

    The XTS is old and needs either replacement or euthanasia. The car is, the last time I saw stats, 60%+ fleet in sales. The last thing Cadillac needs is a Town Car sitiation.
    Quote Originally Posted by eaton53 View Post
    It's not old, it was just refreshed in 2018.



    Exactly. Cadillac is going to build black cars, so now they get to fleet out the CT6.
    The XTS could've filled the role that the Captiva filled for Chevy.
    One big difference... the XTS sells 40% retail. That 40% must be hugely profitable.
    Quote Originally Posted by megeebee View Post
    Bumper facias and a deck lid don't it new.
    Problem with the XTS was that it suffered from the same chassis shortcomings of the gen. 7 Malibu of being fine in length but a bit too narrow. The solution was to give it the other chassis then it got wide enough but too short in the rear seat. The refresh of the XTS was fine IMO but the other part still needed all new to rectify.

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    Re: Carlisle: Time for Cadillac to just to be Cadillac again

    Quote Originally Posted by megeebee View Post
    Bumper facias and a deck lid don't it new.
    Although it looks similar, it also got a significant CUE update and other interior changes.
    Unacceptable for the wife, because it lost the CD player in the process.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1958carnut View Post
    Problem with the XTS was that it suffered from the same chassis shortcomings of the gen. 7 Malibu of being fine in length but a bit too narrow.
    That's not a problem.
    The narrow width plus power folding mirrors are the reason it fits in my garage better than my much smaller Cruze.
    Many other cars were eliminated from consideration because they just didn't fit.
    Last edited by eaton53; 05-27-2019 at 01:59 PM.
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  6. #124
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    Re: Carlisle: Time for Cadillac to just to be Cadillac again

    Quote Originally Posted by Z284ever View Post
    I meant to ask, what is the car in your avatar?
    It's a 1930 or 31 Cadillac V-16 (Series 452).

    the XTS sells 40% retail. That 40% must be hugely profitable.
    Not if it's made in a factory all by itself.

    We don't know the numbers, but I suspect management decided to kill 3 plants at one time to reduce the duration of bad news. It's surprising they haven't moved HQ to sunnier climes.
    Last edited by ral1960; 05-27-2019 at 08:12 PM.

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  8. #125
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    Re: Carlisle: Time for Cadillac to just to be Cadillac again

    Quote Originally Posted by sdotjeezy View Post
    Like I said, I disagree w/ the "tweener" label...even if applied by GM. Fact of the matter is that the CT5 is a midsize offering regardless of how GM tries to spin it. Dim for Dim interior its +/- 1-2in within the E class and exterior wise, it has a .3" longer WB and an overall length .2in shorter while being 1" wider. So yes, this is a midsize sedan. So why are they calling it compact? My guess...perception. GM is trying to avoid the "value" stigma w/ the CT5 since it is 5 series sized but 3 series priced.
    It really doesn't matter about the size/interior volume of a vehicle; what matters more is what segment an automaker intends a particular model to compete, as the competitive set within a segment can vary widely in size/interior volume from manufacturer to manufacturer.

    The Infiniti Q50 is 188.3" in length.

    The Lexus IS is 183.7", about 4.6" inches shorter.

    And yet, they both compete in the compact segment.

    Infiniti also offer the LWB version of the Q70 here at 202".

    The Q70L is still a mid-segment offering and not one that goes against the LS 500, much less something like the S Class.

    The Highlander is Toyota's 3-row CUV at 194.9" for the upcoming model (3.8" larger than the current Highlander).

    That's still outclassed by the VW Atlas at 198.3", much less something like the Traverse at 204.3".
    Last edited by YEH; 05-27-2019 at 09:42 PM.

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    Re: Carlisle: Time for Cadillac to just to be Cadillac again

    Quote Originally Posted by YEH View Post
    It really doesn't matter about the size/interior volume of a vehicle; what matters more is what segment an automaker intends a particular model to compete, as the competitive set within a segment can vary widely in size/interior volume from manufacturer to manufacturer.

    The Infiniti Q50 is 188.3" in length.

    The Lexus IS is 183.7", about 4.6" inches shorter.

    And yet, they both compete in the compact segment.

    Infiniti also offer the LWB version of the Q70 here at 202".

    The Q70L is still a mid-segment offering and not one that goes against the LS 500, much less something like the S Class.

    The Highlander is Toyota's 3-row CUV at 194.9" for the upcoming model (3.8" larger than the current Highlander).

    That's still outclassed by the VW Atlas at 198.3", much less something like the Traverse at 204.3".
    So...using that logic, Chevrolet can label the Impala a compact and a competitor to the Corolla if they wanted to. I get it...Cadillac is playing the offering more for less a.k.a. value card. I'm just not going to swallow the compact tweener crap when the CT5 is virtually the same size as everyone else's midsize.
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    Re: Carlisle: Time for Cadillac to just to be Cadillac again

    ^ That's not using any logic.

    Only way that would work is if Chevy shrank the Impala a good bit (while there are variances in size within segments, there are still limits - let's not get ridiculous now).

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    Re: Carlisle: Time for Cadillac to just to be Cadillac again

    No one perceives the Impala to be a smaller car, and that's what counts regardless of wheelbase or width.

    CT5 doesn't look particularly large to me, maybe because of the shape of the DLO or the perceived height. Cadillac will get away with its tweener strategy just fine.
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    Re: Carlisle: Time for Cadillac to just to be Cadillac again

    Quote Originally Posted by eaton53 View Post
    LcCrosse is wider, shorter and not nearly as well equipped.
    I thought the loaded ones I drove were very fine cars... as long as you don't check the Dynamic Ride option.
    LaX + 20" wheels = poor ride quality. Impala as well.

    XTS has far more sophisicated suspension and can handle the 20's.
    Yeah,some of it's dimensions might be a little screwy,but it's still a bizzaro world XTS/Impala is it not?

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    Re: Carlisle: Time for Cadillac to just to be Cadillac again

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Buttons View Post
    Yeah,some of it's dimensions might be a little screwy,but it's still a bizzaro world XTS/Impala is it not?
    Impala didn't fit in my garage. Plus it rode BAD on 20's.
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    Re: Carlisle: Time for Cadillac to just to be Cadillac again

    Quote Originally Posted by NHRATA01 View Post
    Proof that the XTS is still profitable? It's platform mates weren't, thus headed to the executioner. What % of XTS sales since the CT6 bowed were fleet? Almost every XTS I see now, and every one with the front end refresh, are hired cars. It hasn't broke 20K in sales since '16 and looks like even 15k will be a stretch this year. With it's platform mates dead, you're not going to profitably produce a 15k annual unit run at any plant, particularly when probably close to half its sales is fleet cars.

    I've never, ever seen a Vsport in person, I think they are more rare than even the older STS-V's were.
    Quote Originally Posted by NHRATA01 View Post
    I didn't say all fleet sales are not profitable.


    I said fleet sales of a now standalone platform luxury car that moves but 15k units in a year is not profitable at this point in time.

    You hit it - most people particularly in metro areas do not know if an XTS is a hired car or personally owned. How many potential owners do you think are turned off by that?


    The XTS was/is profitable.. especially with the Impala and LaX in the mix.. I won't even go into the fact that it didn't even have to rely strictly on that basis as the Platform itself was/is profitable. Also U are thinking of strictly US sales.. and not that of China.. where the XTS sold damn near triple what they sold in the U.S.
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    Re: Carlisle: Time for Cadillac to just to be Cadillac again

    I wish Cadillac would bring back true hardtops as was demonstrated with Escala. Coupe and sedan hardtops and two door convertibles. I always felt that the hardtops and convertibles best expressed the true spirit of Cadillac. Interiors should be refined, sumptuous and a bit showy. These cars should be powered by a large NA V-8, (if not V-12 or V-16). They should have buckets of style and commanding presence. Some sort of James Bond type tech trick would be a bonus, if they could do it properly. (Of course they would probably do something really stupid, based on past performance.)

    Escala itself can be the starting point. Cadillac must aim higher. Do not insult the intelligence of people that understand luxury goods. If you expect to charge for it, you have to bring it. I wish them well, but I'm not encouraged. It appears the bean counters are firmly in charge. There hasn't been a product guy in upper management since the departure of Bob Lutz.


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    Re: Carlisle: Time for Cadillac to just to be Cadillac again

    Quote Originally Posted by CMiatso DaBang View Post
    The XTS was/is profitable.. especially with the Impala and LaX in the mix.. I won't even go into the fact that it didn't even have to rely strictly on that basis as the Platform itself was/is profitable. Also U are thinking of strictly US sales.. and not that of China.. where the XTS sold damn near triple what they sold in the U.S.
    China was in the back of my mind, but I wasn't going to propose keeping the XTS alive by importing it from China...that tends not to be a well received idea.

    Economics of a US-built XTS for the US market simply aren't there now that the LaX and Impy are gone and sales are low. And the car doesn't help Cadillac's image as a credible luxury competitor, though if Carlisle's executive word salad of "let Cadillac be Cadillac" just means value priced luxury like it was 20+ years ago then I suppose there's a case for this poorly proportioned DTS replacement.
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    Re: Carlisle: Time for Cadillac to just to be Cadillac again

    Quote Originally Posted by NHRATA01 View Post
    China was in the back of my mind, but I wasn't going to propose keeping the XTS alive by importing it from China...that tends not to be a well received idea.

    Economics of a US-built XTS for the US market simply aren't there now that the LaX and Impy are gone and sales are low. And the car doesn't help Cadillac's image as a credible luxury competitor, though if Carlisle's executive word salad of "let Cadillac be Cadillac" just means value priced luxury like it was 20+ years ago then I suppose there's a case for this poorly proportioned DTS replacement.
    I thought I was the only one who found the proportions of the XTS incredibly odd. Both the Hood and trunk are incredibly stubby. The Lacrosse and Impala arent stricken w/ these proportions...if they are, it isn't as obvious.
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    Re: Carlisle: Time for Cadillac to just to be Cadillac again

    Quote Originally Posted by sdotjeezy View Post
    I thought I was the only one who found the proportions of the XTS incredibly odd. Both the Hood and trunk are incredibly stubby. The Lacrosse and Impala arent stricken w/ these proportions...if they are, it isn't as obvious.
    Nah,you guys are not the only ones who think the XTS has odd proportions.

    I once saw a Beluga whale beach itself on the turnpike trying to mate with an XTS...It got hit by a tanker truck before it could reach the XTS.
    Last edited by Mr.Buttons; 05-29-2019 at 01:31 PM.

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