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Thread: Carlisle: Time for Cadillac to just to be Cadillac again

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    Re: Carlisle: Time for Cadillac to just to be Cadillac again

    Quote Originally Posted by jesda1 View Post
    True, but statistically it was among the most dependable cars in its class. Too bad it took GM over a decade to get it right.
    I only ever saw one '06+ DTS with head gasket issues and that car had very poor cooling system maintenance and it had way over 100k miles. I can remember some of the late 90's Northstar's with low miles needing head gasket replacements.

    Sucks it took GM ten years to get the motor right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 69gtsdart View Post
    I Prefer the DTS Design just with RWD Drivetrain. It would had been whatisthe the Chrysler 300 is today.....
    Exactly why Carlisle is dangerous for Cadillac.

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    Re: Carlisle: Time for Cadillac to just to be Cadillac again

    Quote Originally Posted by mbukukanyau View Post
    He is a Chevrolet man, This is what he means. He is a Reuss Stooge. I do not think Reuss knows how to make Cadillac great again..

    This guy is not going to be good for Cadillac, I knew it the day I saw him. He is the discount and sales volume man.The DTS was Cadillac's low point.

    The Johan strategy of two lines, Luxury and performance seems to be the best approach. This guy is going to put all Cadillac's on Chevy platforms, which are excellent for Chevrolet, but are not what Cadillac should be.

    General Motors is really run by fools.
    This.

    Carlisle is a Reuss stooge - which makes it pretty hilarious that he totally dissed the previous strategy (w/out naming names) which was formulated by his boss.



    Quote Originally Posted by JBsZ06 View Post
    The second gen cts and cts v were cadillac values that rang true with consumers...

    Thats my opinion..luxury, performance and value were all in cue with the second gen cts.

    When JDN took over he literally told the consumer he was going to elevate pricing to create exclusivity which was consumer code word for german like rip off and unit sales at cadillac took a dump.

    American style and luxury along with performance would be cool for cadillac to rebalance,
    JdN didn't want to offer huge incentives and subsidized lease deals (which is what MB and BMW can do; not so much Audi).

    Prices also rose b/c of the cost of the Alpha and Omega platforms (which JdN had nothing to do w/), but ATS, CTS and CT6 were still priced below their German competition (in particlular, MB and BMW).

    But the price discrepancy was not enough due to cheaper and tighter interiors.

    Same reason why Jaguar sedans have really struggled - spent too much of their development $$ on a lightweight platform and didn't have enough left over for proper interiors (which were also on the tighter end).


    Quote Originally Posted by fastbal1 View Post
    I rethought it and still believe Cadillac needs to go big or go home. Big, comfortable cruisers with the highest possible luxury.

    And they’ve got to move on from affordable cars.
    They have gone big in one respect - size/interior room (under changes made by JdN).

    The CT5 replaces the ATS and the CT6 will be repositioned to replace the CTS.

    Basically being tweeners in size and offering class leading interior space; doing away w/ the need/expense to develop a separate LWB variants for the China market.

    Where they haven't gone big is interior design/quality; but that has long been an issue for GM across its brands w/ Reuss having a large role in that.


    Quote Originally Posted by sdotjeezy View Post
    I disagree...dimension for dimension interior volume wise the CT5 bests the E class, GM is exploiting a loophole where the cargo space is also taken into account to get the CT5 into the compact segment, this is where it dramatically smaller even smaller than the 3 series.

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    Last edited by YEH; 05-26-2019 at 05:35 PM.

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    Re: Carlisle: Time for Cadillac to just to be Cadillac again

    Quote Originally Posted by Z284ever View Post
    I had a brand new, roughly 2009 DTS as a loaner for a week. What a lovely, comfortable car. Truly a pleasure to drive. What Jay Leno would call, "a good 'ole girl". Perfect car to take on a long trip.
    Reminds me of my best friend's son who did not want the used 2002 LeSabre that was is mint condition when he got it, but now loves it because it is comfortable and he is under 30 years old and used to own Veloster but found out that comfort is many times more important than performance, especially when your daily drive is on the freeway and not a racetrack. Of course the extra room helps when you are over 6'5" tall and actually carry rear seat passengers.

    Many forget that Millennials do not prioritize handling as much as power and most modern vehicles are quite competent in daily driving. They also do not want to spend more than they have to in order to get the power and amenities they demand.
    Last edited by SierraGS; 05-26-2019 at 07:27 PM.

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    Re: Carlisle: Time for Cadillac to just to be Cadillac again

    My dad had one of those LeSabres until a tree fell on it during Hurricane Michael last fall. I'm 6'2" and found it very uncomfortable to drive compared to my DTS. It felt like it was designed for people well under six feet. It did have a smooth ride and acceptable handling and acceleration. The seat-mounted belts were its worst feature.

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    Re: Carlisle: Time for Cadillac to just to be Cadillac again

    Quote Originally Posted by ral1960 View Post
    My dad had one of those LeSabres until a tree fell on it during Hurricane Michael last fall. I'm 6'2" and found it very uncomfortable to drive compared to my DTS. It felt like it was designed for people well under six feet. It did have a smooth ride and acceptable handling and acceleration. The seat-mounted belts were its worst feature.
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    Re: Carlisle: Time for Cadillac to just to be Cadillac again

    There is a reason for JDN refusal to offer lease discounts, it’s part of the luxury perception, folks respect products they cannot afford, if someone driving say a Mercedes sees a Cadillac they know they couldn’t buy due to price, it hurts their feelings.

    Cadillac needs to rebuild its exclusive reputation, hence the short term pain JDN was willing to pay. Bring the man back.

    I respect Reuss as a brilliant engineer especially in Chassis tuning but he clearly has two blind spots, 1. luxury is not his thing, and 2. he seems lost in the world where GM was number one in size.

    Things are not the same.
    Last edited by mbukukanyau; 05-26-2019 at 09:52 PM.

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    Re: Carlisle: Time for Cadillac to just to be Cadillac again

    Quote Originally Posted by eaton53 View Post
    Proof of his incompetance.
    Here's a profitable car that actually sells and we just refreshed in 2018, so lets get rid of it.
    Glad that goof is gone!
    I disgaree.

    The XTS is old and needs either replacement or euthanasia. The car is, the last time I saw stats, 60%+ fleet in sales. The last thing Cadillac needs is a Town Car sitiation.
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    Re: Carlisle: Time for Cadillac to just to be Cadillac again

    Quote Originally Posted by YEH View Post
    This.

    Carlisle is a Reuss stooge - which makes it pretty hilarious that he totally dissed the previous strategy (w/out naming names) which was formulated by his boss.





    JdN didn't want to offer huge incentives and subsidized lease deals (which is what MB and BMW can do; not so much Audi).

    Prices also rose b/c of the cost of the Alpha and Omega platforms (which JdN had nothing to do w/), but ATS, CTS and CT6 were still priced below their German competition (in particlular, MB and BMW).

    But the price discrepancy was not enough due to cheaper and tighter interiors.

    Same reason why Jaguar sedans have really struggled - spent too much of their development $$ on a lightweight platform and didn't have enough left over for proper interiors (which were also on the tighter end).




    They have gone big in one respect - size/interior room (under changes made by JdN).

    The CT5 replaces the ATS and the CT6 will be repositioned to replace the CTS.

    Basically being tweeners in size and offering class leading interior space; doing away w/ the need/expense to develop a separate LWB variants for the China market.

    Where they haven't gone big is interior design/quality; but that has long been an issue for GM across its brands w/ Reuss having a large role in that.




    See above.
    Like I said, I disagree w/ the "tweener" label...even if applied by GM. Fact of the matter is that the CT5 is a midsize offering regardless of how GM tries to spin it. Dim for Dim interior its +/- 1-2in within the E class and exterior wise, it has a .3" longer WB and an overall length .2in shorter while being 1" wider. So yes, this is a midsize sedan. So why are they calling it compact? My guess...perception. GM is trying to avoid the "value" stigma w/ the CT5 since it is 5 series sized but 3 series priced.
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    Re: Carlisle: Time for Cadillac to just to be Cadillac again

    Quote Originally Posted by SierraGS View Post
    Why do you think that Fleet sales are not profitable??

    In many cases you can make more money on fleet sales than retail since you tend to get larger sales at one time without having to "stock" the vehicles after production, in fact Fleet sales (if properly done) can be far more profitable than retail sales that require more build variations and nearly all (except customer special orders) require logistical distribution costs. Of course in the luxury segment fleet sales are not the best way to promote the brand, OTOH most people do not know if the Cadillac they see on the street is a Fleet car or not since many of these services only put a discrete marking on their cars and their customers are the ones who demand a luxury vehicle so it is a viable (and profitable) part of the luxury segment - just needs to be properly implemented.
    I didn't say all fleet sales are not profitable.

    I said fleet sales of a now standalone platform luxury car that moves but 15k units in a year is not profitable at this point in time.

    You hit it - most people particularly in metro areas do not know if an XTS is a hired car or personally owned. How many potential owners do you think are turned off by that?
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    Re: Carlisle: Time for Cadillac to just to be Cadillac again

    Quote Originally Posted by ryannel2003 View Post
    I only ever saw one '06+ DTS with head gasket issues and that car had very poor cooling system maintenance and it had way over 100k miles. I can remember some of the late 90's Northstar's with low miles needing head gasket replacements.

    Sucks it took GM ten years to get the motor right.
    They fixed the block porosity issues as well as redesigned the head bolts to match the LS-style, so the issue of the threads pulling from the block and the heads lifting were resolved in '04.

    Still had all the other typical Northstar problems though - leaking half case, inevitable leaks of the coolant crossover, tearing of the tb to manifold coupling. Not sure if the 4T80 tcc solenoid problems were ever solved either. $20 part buried in $2K of labor.

    Northstars were nice when they ran right. Otherwise give me an LS any day.
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    Re: Carlisle: Time for Cadillac to just to be Cadillac again

    Quote Originally Posted by NHRATA01 View Post
    I didn't say all fleet sales are not profitable.

    I said fleet sales of a now standalone platform luxury car that moves but 15k units in a year is not profitable at this point in time.

    You hit it - most people particularly in metro areas do not know if an XTS is a hired car or personally owned. How many potential owners do you think are turned off by that?
    Good points and would agree on the XTS, question is will Cadillac do Fleet on the CT6?

    Given their current strategy it appears the answer is no, but to your point about the XTS, how many potential owners would be turned on by the CT6 as a hired car?

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    Re: Carlisle: Time for Cadillac to just to be Cadillac again

    Quote Originally Posted by SierraGS View Post
    Reminds me of my best friend's son who did not want the used 2002 LeSabre that was is mint condition when he got it, but now loves it because it is comfortable and he is under 30 years old and used to own Veloster but found out that comfort is many times more important than performance, especially when your daily drive is on the freeway and not a racetrack. Of course the extra room helps when you are over 6'5" tall and actually carry rear seat passengers.

    Many forget that Millennials do not prioritize handling as much as power and most modern vehicles are quite competent in daily driving. They also do not want to spend more than they have to in order to get the power and amenities they demand.
    I'd be thrilled with an attractively styled large car with ample power and space with a "normal" level of amenities. I'd like a coupe, but could probably live with a sedan. It has to be able to take highway turns pretty aggressively, but it doesn't have to pull 9gs.

    All I want is basically a maxed out Accord, but nicer and more exquisitely styled. I do not particularly like Acura. I would prefer a coupe. It's what I've wanted from Buick for years at this point, but still no dice.

    I would be willing to pay probably up to $60k depending on the quality and content of the vehicle.

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    Re: Carlisle: Time for Cadillac to just to be Cadillac again

    Quote Originally Posted by sfbreh View Post
    I'd be thrilled with an attractively styled large car with ample power and space with a "normal" level of amenities. I'd like a coupe, but could probably live with a sedan. It has to be able to take highway turns pretty aggressively, but it doesn't have to pull 9gs.

    All I want is basically a maxed out Accord, but nicer and more exquisitely styled. I do not particularly like Acura. I would prefer a coupe. It's what I've wanted from Buick for years at this point, but still no dice.

    I would be willing to pay probably up to $60k depending on the quality and content of the vehicle.
    And GM could build you that car (and could have in 2010 with the Zeta based DT7) using the NA 6.2L that would provide MORE than adequate power and would be like driving a 4-door Camaro SS but with room for real people inside, it could have great styling, be a coupe (and sedan of course) and offer all of today's "mandatory" Luxury features and material quality for that $60K, just don't hold your breath. It'll be at least $10K more and offer less.

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    Re: Carlisle: Time for Cadillac to just to be Cadillac again

    Quote Originally Posted by megeebee View Post
    I disgaree.

    The XTS is old and needs either replacement or euthanasia. The car is, the last time I saw stats, 60%+ fleet in sales. The last thing Cadillac needs is a Town Car sitiation.
    It's not old, it was just refreshed in 2018.

    Quote Originally Posted by SierraGS View Post
    Given their current strategy it appears the answer is no, but to your point about the XTS, how many potential owners would be turned on by the CT6 as a hired car?
    Exactly. Cadillac is going to build black cars, so now they get to fleet out the CT6.
    The XTS could've filled the role that the Captiva filled for Chevy.
    One big difference... the XTS sells 40% retail. That 40% must be hugely profitable.
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