For Cadillac, the sedan is still alive and well - Page 3

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Thread: For Cadillac, the sedan is still alive and well

  1. #31
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    Re: For Cadillac, the sedan is still alive and well

    Quote Originally Posted by Envoy4Life View Post
    Except it really isn't though.

    CT4 shares ATS's DLO and architecture, down to door pulls and location of certain electrical equipment and switchgear, namely the location of the shifter, rheostat, and speakers. Hell, the side view mirrors, rheostat insert, lock/unlock switches, and door handles are the exact same parts as the ones in the ATS.







    In addition to this, the interior dimensions are identical, down to the tenths. It's the same car between the front and rear.

    It was a minimal cost "all-new" product. I'm not going to give it any more credit than that.
    So in other words or IMO they did no more than they had to to get it to "all new" status and thus morph it over from ATS to the new naming scheme and CT4.

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  4. #32
    GMI Staff Member Premium Member Envoy4Life's Avatar
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    Re: For Cadillac, the sedan is still alive and well

    Quote Originally Posted by 1958carnut View Post
    So in other words or IMO they did no more than they had to to get it to "all new" status and thus morph it over from ATS to the new naming scheme and CT4.
    Exactly. "Ballin' on a budget", if you will.

    I think of it as a similar practice as using the old Saturn Outlook as the base for the previous generation Acadia's MCE. It's smart and saves money, but for Cadillac, I don't think it's a good idea. It also doesn't make all that much sense to me because it isn't really an Escala-inspired design either, like CT5 or XT6.

    As far as what CT4 does for me, I've previously owned 2 ATS, so I likely wouldn't consider a CT4 mainly because I don't want to own 3. Lol.
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    Hidden Content Originally Posted by Greg.Botts Hidden Content
    LOL at all the FORD fans in this thread thinking they got a one up. This is the Yukon Denali and trust me it's going to blow away the Navigator. Escalade is gunning for RR/Bentley level of interiors and beyond. I've talked to someone about this on another site that confirmed it Navigator isn't even being bench-marked at Cadillac too low for them.
    ^GOLD^

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  5. #33
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    Re: For Cadillac, the sedan is still alive and well

    Quote Originally Posted by Envoy4Life View Post
    Exactly. "Ballin' on a budget", if you will.

    I think of it as a similar practice as using the old Saturn Outlook as the base for the previous generation Acadia's MCE. It's smart and saves money, but for Cadillac, I don't think it's a good idea. It also doesn't make all that much sense to me because it isn't really an Escala-inspired design either, like CT5 or XT6.

    As far as what CT4 does for me, I've previously owned 2 ATS, so I likely wouldn't consider a CT4 mainly because I don't want to own 3. Lol.
    That makes perfect sense because they really didn't address the prior's packaging issues then, which was what it needed most of all.

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  8. #34
    GMI Staff Member Premium Member Envoy4Life's Avatar
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    Re: For Cadillac, the sedan is still alive and well

    Quote Originally Posted by 1958carnut View Post
    That makes perfect sense because they really didn't address the prior's packaging issues then, which was what it needed most of all.
    Yep, exactly. I think they figured that if they price it lower to slot in between the A/A3 and C/A4 they could get away with it.

    I don't agree with it, but who knows, maybe it'll work out for them.
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    Hidden Content Originally Posted by Greg.Botts Hidden Content
    LOL at all the FORD fans in this thread thinking they got a one up. This is the Yukon Denali and trust me it's going to blow away the Navigator. Escalade is gunning for RR/Bentley level of interiors and beyond. I've talked to someone about this on another site that confirmed it Navigator isn't even being bench-marked at Cadillac too low for them.
    ^GOLD^

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1958carnut View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Envoy4Life View Post
    Exactly. "Ballin' on a budget", if you will.

    I think of it as a similar practice as using the old Saturn Outlook as the base for the previous generation Acadia's MCE. It's smart and saves money, but for Cadillac, I don't think it's a good idea. It also doesn't make all that much sense to me because it isn't really an Escala-inspired design either, like CT5 or XT6.

    As far as what CT4 does for me, I've previously owned 2 ATS, so I likely wouldn't consider a CT4 mainly because I don't want to own 3. Lol.
    That makes perfect sense because they really didn't address the prior's packaging issues then, which was what it needed most of all.
    Until I sit in it.. I won't come to that conclusion. There are various things that could have been done inside to alleviate any of the complaints levied on it about rear seat room. The front seat never got complaints in terms of space. Again. The car was pretty great other than that.
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  10. #36
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    Re: For Cadillac, the sedan is still alive and well

    Quote Originally Posted by CMiatso DaBang View Post
    Until I sit in it.. I won't come to that conclusion. There are various things that could have been done inside to alleviate any of the complaints levied on it about rear seat room. The front seat never got complaints in terms of space. Again. The car was pretty great other than that.
    As somebody who owned 2 ATSs for 3.5 years, I agree with "U". It was a great car, and a joy to drive. I miss it a lot.

    Personally, I thought the rear legroom complaints were understandable, but I didn't agree with them. At the end of the day, it's a compact car. Want more room? Get a bigger car.

    But with CT4, it's 5 inches longer than ATS is. Problem is, the extra length doesn't translate to extra room, as the passenger cabin shell hasn't changed. Official GM measurements back this up as well.

    But if they make it cheaper, maybe it won't be as big of a problem as it was with the premium-priced ATS. We'll see.
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    Hidden Content Originally Posted by Greg.Botts Hidden Content
    LOL at all the FORD fans in this thread thinking they got a one up. This is the Yukon Denali and trust me it's going to blow away the Navigator. Escalade is gunning for RR/Bentley level of interiors and beyond. I've talked to someone about this on another site that confirmed it Navigator isn't even being bench-marked at Cadillac too low for them.
    ^GOLD^

    Hidden Content

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    Re: For Cadillac, the sedan is still alive and well

    To be completely honest... both cars are growing on me substantially. I'm not sure they'll do much for Cadillac in the drying up sedan market but I think they should do ok depending on how they are priced.
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    Re: For Cadillac, the sedan is still alive and well

    Quote Originally Posted by CMiatso DaBang View Post
    Until I sit in it.. I won't come to that conclusion. There are various things that could have been done inside to alleviate any of the complaints levied on it about rear seat room. The front seat never got complaints in terms of space. Again. The car was pretty great other than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Envoy4Life View Post
    As somebody who owned 2 ATSs for 3.5 years, I agree with "U". It was a great car, and a joy to drive. I miss it a lot.

    Personally, I thought the rear legroom complaints were understandable, but I didn't agree with them. At the end of the day, it's a compact car. Want more room? Get a bigger car.

    But with CT4, it's 5 inches longer than ATS is. Problem is, the extra length doesn't translate to extra room, as the passenger cabin shell hasn't changed. Official GM measurements back this up as well.

    But if they make it cheaper, maybe it won't be as big of a problem as it was with the premium-priced ATS. We'll see.
    This just got me to thinking about Chevrolet and the flak they got about the '13 Malibu rear seat room, and their solution of hollowing out the front seat backs and such to correct it as much as possible. I'm surprised Cadillac didn't even try anything like that.

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    Re: For Cadillac, the sedan is still alive and well

    Quote Originally Posted by Envoy4Life View Post
    Except it really isn't though.

    CT4 shares ATS's DLO and architecture, down to door pulls and location of certain electrical equipment and switchgear, namely the location of the shifter, rheostat, and speakers. Hell, the side view mirrors, rheostat insert, lock/unlock switches, and door handles are the exact same parts as the ones in the ATS.







    In addition to this, the interior dimensions are identical, down to the tenths. It's the same car between the front and rear.

    It was a minimal cost "all-new" product. I'm not going to give it any more credit than that.
    The Alpha is a world class RWD chassis, would be stupid to spend a billion or so on a new chassis. The car is completely updated inside and out. If it was a Lincoln you be fapping all over the screen.

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    Re: For Cadillac, the sedan is still alive and well

    Quote Originally Posted by LowRider View Post
    The Alpha is a world class RWD chassis, would be stupid to spend a billion or so on a new chassis. The car is completely updated inside and out. If it was a Lincoln you be fapping all over the screen.
    There are better things to fap all over the screen to.

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    Re: For Cadillac, the sedan is still alive and well

    Quote Originally Posted by 1958carnut View Post
    This just got me to thinking about Chevrolet and the flak they got about the '13 Malibu rear seat room, and their solution of hollowing out the front seat backs and such to correct it as much as possible. I'm surprised Cadillac didn't even try anything like that.
    STRONG possibility that's what they did. BTW.. where did the rear measurements come from? Are the official GM measurements?
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  17. #42
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    Re: For Cadillac, the sedan is still alive and well

    Quote Originally Posted by 1958carnut View Post
    This just got me to thinking about Chevrolet and the flak they got about the '13 Malibu rear seat room, and their solution of hollowing out the front seat backs and such to correct it as much as possible. I'm surprised Cadillac didn't even try anything like that.
    I mentioned that in a post a couple of weeks ago. If they managed to find an extra 1.2” rear legroom, or whatever it was, on the Malibu by scooping out the front seat backs, how come Cadillac couldn't find the wherewithal to try something similar on CT4? They had to do an emergency facelift on the Malibu to get it to market fast, whereas they’ve had 3-4 years to plan for this on the CT4. It’s a bit of a head-scratcher.

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    Re: For Cadillac, the sedan is still alive and well

    Quote Originally Posted by Envoy4Life View Post
    Please don't show any more pictures of the manual transmission ATS. I'll cry. Seriously I will.

    (I'm assuming the CT4 will not offer it. Fine fine neither does the 3 series.)
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    Re: For Cadillac, the sedan is still alive and well

    Quote Originally Posted by LowRider View Post
    The Alpha is a world class RWD chassis, would be stupid to spend a billion or so on a new chassis. The car is completely updated inside and out. If it was a Lincoln you be fapping all over the screen.
    Literally nobody wanted a new chassis. What we wanted was a new design. Rehashing an ATS with Escala cues on the front and rear fascias is a weak attempt at an all new nameplate.

    I must have struck a nerve though, huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by dannyg View Post
    Please don't show any more pictures of the manual transmission ATS. I'll cry. Seriously I will.

    (I'm assuming the CT4 will not offer it. Fine fine neither does the 3 series.)
    It's unfortunate, but the take rate on the MT is so low it likely isn't worth offering at all.

    I suppose it also aligns with the "zero crashes, zero emissions, zero whatever, zero sales" quote that the CEO gave a while back.
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    Hidden Content Originally Posted by Greg.Botts Hidden Content
    LOL at all the FORD fans in this thread thinking they got a one up. This is the Yukon Denali and trust me it's going to blow away the Navigator. Escalade is gunning for RR/Bentley level of interiors and beyond. I've talked to someone about this on another site that confirmed it Navigator isn't even being bench-marked at Cadillac too low for them.
    ^GOLD^

    Hidden Content

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    Re: For Cadillac, the sedan is still alive and well

    Quote Originally Posted by Envoy4Life View Post
    Except it really isn't though.

    CT4 shares ATS's DLO and architecture, down to door pulls and location of certain electrical equipment and switchgear, namely the location of the shifter, rheostat, and speakers. Hell, the side view mirrors, rheostat insert, lock/unlock switches, and door handles are the exact same parts as the ones in the ATS.
    Has it come to this? splitting hairs like the lock/unlock switches? Jeebus.

    Few if any of these things are EVER altered in a Re-skin project. That's one of the reasons it's called that. A new set of clothes over a given set of bones. And as such, the CT4 is a very extensive one.

    In addition to this, the interior dimensions are identical, down to the tenths. It's the same car between the front and rear.
    I know. We all know. Again, that's why it's called a reskin.

    I say again, a very extensive one.





    Even when the Deville became the DTS, the upper and lower door sheetmetal (And yes, your precious DLO) was retained.
    Last edited by megeebee; 06-16-2019 at 10:59 PM.
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