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Thread: Cadillac Resets Itís Sight

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    Re: Cadillac Resets Itís Sight

    Quote Originally Posted by CMiatso DaBang View Post
    The CTS was a great example. CADILLAC GAVE THE CUSTOMERS A REASON TO BUY FOR STILL LESS AND PEOPLE STILL BOUGHT AN INFERIOR E-CLASS OR 5SERIES because the price was supposedly too high. LMFAO.
    The one area that third gen CTS is notably superior to Mercedes-Benz W212/W213 and BMW F10/G30 is chassis tuning and handling. How many prospective customers for midsize executive sedans consider the car's handling to be its most important attribute?
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    Re: Cadillac Resets Itís Sight

    Quote Originally Posted by gkr778 View Post
    The one area that third gen CTS is notably superior to Mercedes-Benz W212/W213 and BMW F10/G30 is chassis tuning and handling. How many prospective customers for midsize executive sedans consider the car's handling to be its most important attribute?
    Exactly. In this segment very good is good enough for 98% of perspective customers when it comes to handling. GM put the majority of any extra effort thrown into this car into turning that dynamic up to eleven and did so at the expense of other areas. BMW and Mercedes put extra effort into different areas, and more specifically into areas where potential customers will notice and appreciate the difference and where other areas of the car weren’t compromised in the process. It’s not difficult to figure out what went wrong here.

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    Re: Cadillac Resets Itís Sight

    Quote Originally Posted by gkr778 View Post
    The one area that third gen CTS is notably superior to Mercedes-Benz W212/W213 and BMW F10/G30 is chassis tuning and handling. How many prospective customers for midsize executive sedans consider the car's handling to be its most important attribute?

    Mercedes's E, BMW 5, and even Lexus GS.. have two things I see as an advantage over the CTS, one is more models with AWD, in particular Hi-PO models.. and interior color options. That's pretty much where the superiority ends
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    Re: Cadillac Resets Itís Sight

    When the outgoing CTS debuted it literally had less rear-seat legroom than every direct competitor, but that doesn’t get listed as a disadvantage in an E-segment sedan? I mean, this is a segment where the expectation is that you might need to carry four adults regularly, but literal worst in-class legroom gets a gloss-over?

    And for the record, it was longer than every direct competitor too, yet still managed to have less rear-seat legroom. In fact, it had less rear seat legroom than the notably smaller second gen CTS it replaced. And while we are on that subject, an updated second gen CTS with four more inches of wheelbase thrown in would have easily been a better car.
    Last edited by SVT74; 06-09-2019 at 05:41 PM.

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    Re: Cadillac Resets Itís Sight

    Don't see much difference between this interview and things that JDN used to say in many interviews. I guess her 'problem' is she isn't persuasive enough. She's an poorly dressed American woman with a phony smile.


    Quote Originally Posted by Envoy4Life View Post
    Cadillac will be sold off to the Chinese in around a decade or so.
    Hopefully to the right Chinese - who will invest and finally make Cadillac a widely-available global luxury brand.
    Last edited by Scrambler; 06-09-2019 at 05:45 PM.
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    Re: Cadillac Resets Itís Sight

    Quote Originally Posted by rand49er View Post
    I'm thinking I may have been a bit harsh on Ms Wahl in that video in my previous post. I'm thinking, what is she suppose to do and say in an interview like this? Tell the world including competitors what Cadillac's marketing strategy is? ... in detail? ... in terms other marketing people understand? That would be pretty stupid actually. I think maybe she's just dancing around as she "answers" questions and is trying to be elusive. If that's the case, she's doing a marvelous job ... at saying nothing. John McElroy realizes it, I'm sure. He's been around.
    Quote Originally Posted by CMiatso DaBang View Post
    Marketing!!! Go figure. GMI wants GM to tell them everything .. all the secrets.. or she's a hack. This woman is doing her job. Mary is doing her job. And speaking of Mary.. I have seen nothing that she has done that is not in the best interest of the corporation.. which is a CEO's job.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowRider View Post
    She mouthed a lot of corporate speak which is what you do in that position. She's head of marketing not engineering. I do think the most recent commercials are a lot better. They were awful under DeNyschenn (or however you spell his name).
    I wondered the same thing as it is easy to misread people, particularly from a brief video interview.

    Certainly some movers-and-shakers, like Bob Lutz, masterfully played coy for the cameras but Lutz's capabilities and passion were matter-of-fact because the proof was in the pudding. Besides her misplaced passions, what caused me to lean towards incompetence regarding Deborah Wahl is her lack of accomplishments to inspire hope. I'm not particularly fond of Cadillac's marketing strategy which comes off as more interested in celebrating people types, as opposed to glorifying their product.

    If she as Lead Convincer doesn't convey an unbridled passion for Cadillacs (not some ethereal passion for the brand but REAL passion for the actual cars) how can she be the best to lead a team of marketers? Cadillac deserves so much more for such a critical position. I hope I am wrong.
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    Re: Cadillac Resets Itís Sight

    Quote Originally Posted by gkr778 View Post
    The one area that third gen CTS is notably superior to Mercedes-Benz W212/W213 and BMW F10/G30 is chassis tuning and handling. How many prospective customers for midsize executive sedans consider the car's handling to be its most important attribute?
    Quote Originally Posted by SVT74 View Post
    Exactly. In this segment very good is good enough for 98% of perspective customers when it comes to handling. GM put the majority of any extra effort thrown into this car into turning that dynamic up to eleven and did so at the expense of other areas. BMW and Mercedes put extra effort into different areas, and more specifically into areas where potential customers will notice and appreciate the difference and where other areas of the car werenít compromised in the process. Itís not difficult to figure out what went wrong here.
    I have to disagree. Cadillac had no claim to fame 15 years ago and was roundly criticized essentially for being Cadillac. Meaning, by the 1980s and '90s, traditional American-style luxury (that Cadillac was inseparably tied to) was psychologically becoming old-style luxury that fewer from the new generation wanted to identify with. They absolutely needed a tectonic shift in people's minds and performacne was the avenue they chose. Unfortunately, as a case study, Lincoln and Chrysler didn't see the threat and/or their responses were flat wrong.

    What Cadillac did all those years was solidify the foundation for a modern reputation. That was a painful and protracted step but it is done. Cadillac shed that old image and is again discussed amongst the world's premier brands as a result of engineering prowess. We may never know if Cadillac's performance strategy was the best possible strategy but, seeing how America's other two 'luxury' brands have ended up, it is probably safe to say it was the best strategy actually employed. Lincoln is trying but was never redefined in a meaningful way; it invested in no redefining foundation and has no brand-sourced engineering accomplishments (still relying entirely upon Fords). As far as Chrysler? Well, who knows if Chrysler will even be around in a few years.

    All this talk about what Cadillac did wrong yet they are still way out in the lead for American luxury in engineering, brand-image and sales.
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    Re: Cadillac Resets Itís Sight

    Quote Originally Posted by Syclone478 View Post
    What Cadillac did all those years was solidify the foundation for a modern reputation. That was a painful and protracted step but it is done. Cadillac shed that old image and is again discussed amongst the world's premier brands as a result of engineering prowess. We may never know if Cadillac's performance strategy was the best possible strategy but, seeing how America's other two 'luxury' brands have ended up, it is probably safe to say it was the best strategy actually employed. Lincoln is trying but was never redefined in a meaningful way; it invested in no redefining foundation and has no brand-sourced engineering accomplishments (still relying entirely upon Fords). As far as Chrysler? Well, who knows if Chrysler will even be around in a few years.

    All this talk about what Cadillac did wrong yet they are still way out in the lead for American luxury in engineering, brand-image and sales.
    I see where you’re coming from, but I seriously disagree that the hyper-focus on performance has paid off. We now have a Cadillac where the most profitable and promising vehicles don’t really share any of that high performance chassis dna. Those products being the Escalade and the exclusively fwd-platform based crossovers. Don’t misunderstand, I actually think that there are some pretty smart vehicles in that mix. However, I also suspect that Cadillac would have spawned a very similar suv/crossover lineup even if Sigma, Alpha, and Omega had never existed in the first place.

    There are, currently, domestic premium-brand competitors with more promising product if the goal here is to be a true, top-tier luxury brand again. And I think the difference in strategies is exactly why Cadillac appears to now be retreating from those aspirations with new product and is, instead, focusing on something more like a Volvo level of luxury and prestige rather than setting their sights on Mercedes or BMW.
    Last edited by SVT74; 06-09-2019 at 08:25 PM.

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    Re: Cadillac Resets Itís Sight

    Quote Originally Posted by Z284ever View Post
    Cadillac has every tool it needs to dominate it's segment. Vehicle architectures, powertrains, technology, everything! It seems all the difficult stuff is at their fingertips. They just have a hard time with their branding, styling, positioning and marketing. They have the things which require mathematics down. What they lack are the things that require passion.
    GM "globally" struggles with the "last mile" CADDY / Silverado / ETC engineering is TOP shelf / DESIGN is there / performance DITTO BUT it is ALWAYS the DETAILS saddling second rate interiors ON 50K vehicles
    compromised rear seat room on a family sports sedan - locking out desired features on over priced models compared to the competition

    ther Camaro LT1 and the High country getting the 6.2L are great and all but reactionary CORRECTIONS NOT get go planning as they should have bean

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    Re: Cadillac Resets Itís Sight

    Quote Originally Posted by Z284ever View Post
    Also, I wonder if both her and Mary buy their leather jackets at the same store?
    Didn't think about that.........................

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    Re: Cadillac Resets Itís Sight

    Quote Originally Posted by Syclone478 View Post
    All this talk about what Cadillac did wrong yet they are still way out in the lead for American luxury in engineering, brand-image and sales.
    That's testament not only to Cadillac's long history as the premier American luxury vehicle brand, but also to the fact that the other two American luxury vehicle brands either faded into irrelevance and only recently regained its footing (Lincoln), or more closely resembles a pyramid scheme than a legitimate business (Tesla).

    Perhaps someday in the future a consortium of investors could buy Cadillac from GM, Lincoln from Ford, and Tesla from Martians. Then, they can consolidate those into a new and globally competitive American luxury car brand.
    Last edited by gkr778; 06-09-2019 at 09:35 PM.
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    Re: Cadillac Resets Itís Sight

    Quote Originally Posted by rand49er View Post
    Exactly.

    Nothing personal, mind you, but she's talking but nothing's coming out. I mean, she's just like 99.99% of marketing people ... they move their mouths, and English words come out, but all airy and nebulous and wispy nothingness. And they get paid big buck$? I don't get it.

    She is just 'there' so M Barra and related do not have to do it in Public versus some horse **** Bankster / Investor Day 'Presentation' - and take the heat.
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    Re: Cadillac Resets Itís Sight

    Quote Originally Posted by Syclone478 View Post
    I have to disagree. Cadillac had no claim to fame 15 years ago and was roundly criticized essentially for being Cadillac. Meaning, by the 1980s and '90s, traditional American-style luxury (that Cadillac was inseparably tied to) was psychologically becoming old-style luxury that fewer from the new generation wanted to identify with. They absolutely needed a tectonic shift in people's minds and performacne was the avenue they chose. Unfortunately, as a case study, Lincoln and Chrysler didn't see the threat and/or their responses were flat wrong.

    What Cadillac did all those years was solidify the foundation for a modern reputation. That was a painful and protracted step but it is done. Cadillac shed that old image and is again discussed amongst the world's premier brands as a result of engineering prowess. We may never know if Cadillac's performance strategy was the best possible strategy but, seeing how America's other two 'luxury' brands have ended up, it is probably safe to say it was the best strategy actually employed. Lincoln is trying but was never redefined in a meaningful way; it invested in no redefining foundation and has no brand-sourced engineering accomplishments (still relying entirely upon Fords). As far as Chrysler? Well, who knows if Chrysler will even be around in a few years.

    All this talk about what Cadillac did wrong yet they are still way out in the lead for American luxury in engineering, brand-image and sales.
    Phenomenal post. And spot on what I was trying to say earlier. People forget that. Pre-CTS, this was the real face of Cadillac...



    it is the face of Cadillac up until the 2007 Escalade and 2008 CTS grabbed the baton and made their way. Its been a rocky road.. because so much resistance to change has occurred since. Not to mention.. people in the know..I mean people who actually know better.. still idiotically bring up 4-6-8.. Cimmarons.. and that one time they used a duck for a ZIG marketing campaign. All of that negativity.. with these rolling round



    Bewildering to say the least. I mean think about the fact that they will nitpick and belittle to death.. everything they can.. creating hypocrisy with every comparison and put down versus a German competitor. The NERVE...
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    Re: Cadillac Resets Itís Sight

    Quote Originally Posted by SVT74 View Post
    I see where you’re coming from, but I seriously disagree that the hyper-focus on performance has paid off. We now have a Cadillac where the most profitable and promising vehicles don’t really share any of that high performance chassis dna. Those products being the Escalade and the exclusively fwd-platform based crossovers. Don’t misunderstand, I actually think that there are some pretty smart vehicles in that mix. However, I also suspect that Cadillac would have spawned a very similar suv/crossover lineup even if Sigma, Alpha, and Omega had never existed in the first place.

    There are, currently, domestic premium-brand competitors with more promising product if the goal here is to be a true, top-tier luxury brand again. And I think the difference in strategies is exactly why Cadillac appears to now be retreating from those aspirations with new product and is, instead, focusing on something more like a Volvo level of luxury and prestige rather than setting their sights on Mercedes or BMW.
    The only reason why Cadillac is not considered in the same league as Benz and BMW is because AMERICANS hate themselves. Some people really really need to get over the Aviator... cause that is what U are talking about. Same old song I've been hearing since the Continental.. No.. since the MKT.. no since the MKC. Always with a dose of Cadillac being pushed down a level.. being humbled. XT4,5,6 are the answers to what the market asked. I thank God that they chose to go the sporting way... PERFORMANCE to set my soul on fire with their sedans. All of them.
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    Re: Cadillac Resets Itís Sight

    Quote Originally Posted by Syclone478 View Post
    I have to disagree. Cadillac had no claim to fame 15 years ago and was roundly criticized essentially for being Cadillac. Meaning, by the 1980s and '90s, traditional American-style luxury (that Cadillac was inseparably tied to) was psychologically becoming old-style luxury that fewer from the new generation wanted to identify with. They absolutely needed a tectonic shift in people's minds and performacne was the avenue they chose. Unfortunately, as a case study, Lincoln and Chrysler didn't see the threat and/or their responses were flat wrong.

    What Cadillac did all those years was solidify the foundation for a modern reputation. That was a painful and protracted step but it is done. Cadillac shed that old image and is again discussed amongst the world's premier brands as a result of engineering prowess. We may never know if Cadillac's performance strategy was the best possible strategy but, seeing how America's other two 'luxury' brands have ended up, it is probably safe to say it was the best strategy actually employed. Lincoln is trying but was never redefined in a meaningful way; it invested in no redefining foundation and has no brand-sourced engineering accomplishments (still relying entirely upon Fords). As far as Chrysler? Well, who knows if Chrysler will even be around in a few years.

    All this talk about what Cadillac did wrong yet they are still way out in the lead for American luxury in engineering, brand-image and sales.

    Hardly - no matter how you cut it.

    At best, that's about as meaningful as being #1 of 2 in a failing AA Baseball League formerly composed of 30 Teams while ignoring......things like AAA and MLB.....

    Besides, when one looks at the American Premium / Luxury Brand Customer and or Marketplace ...... you know the only thing that really counts with this........ they lead only in the sense of great ? 'Operatic Tragedy'.
    "From tech stocks to high gas prices, Goldman Sachs has engineered every major market manipulation since the Great Depression ó and they're about to do it again."
    "The world's most powerful investment bank is a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money."
    "If America is circling the drain, Goldman Sachs has found a way to be that drain ó " Matt Taibbi

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