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QOTD: "Will they ever be redesigned?"

9K views 55 replies 30 participants last post by  PHAT-JAY 
#1 ·
Automotive News
July 27, 2020








Future Product: Chevrolet Express

Will they ever be redesigned? Expectations are not anytime soon. GM seems content to let the more than 15-year-old vans — whose development costs were fully amortized long ago — quietly age rather than invest in a new generation to compete against Ford's segment-dominating Transit series.











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#2 ·
I owned and loved, a 2011 Saab 9-5.

Repeat: 2011.

It had the same radio as the 2020 Express shown below.

I guess if it ain't broke...





Question: Should GM redesign the Chevrolet Express full size van, or continue to rake in the bucks on a vehicle paid for many years ago, and one that may be extremely profitable for them...If in the market, would you purchase an Express or (Ford) Transit?




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#3 ·
I didn't know that they still made that sort of radio.

If it still sells, maybe just leave it alone. Although you'd think a modern dash would be a good idea. But it's a utilitarian box that does its task. Maybe there isn't a good reason to change it.
 
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#4 ·
Given parts availability and that pretty much every mechanic is familiar with it, I’d imagine that cost of ownership/downtime is the best in the industry...why mess with a money-making machine. And last year I noticed that some safety equipment like SBZA and LDW was made available so there is a little bit of improvements here and there
 
#5 ·
Why should they, there really isn't a point to re-designing a utility vehicle like this...there are only so many vehicles like this on the market and I doubt anyone says "I need 50 vans for my plumbing fleet, but I just wish they made something that looked better". It gets the job done well...what else is out there? The Nissan NV?
 
#6 ·
As long as it can meet safety requirements, they might as well keep building it. Certainly not glamorous, but people hauling stuff around for their catering or construction or whatever business aren't concerned about that.

I remember reading that crash requirements were the reason they finally stopped building the A-body Olds Cutlass Ciera. It was still popular and said to be kind of embarrassing to Oldsmobile as it was still move popular than newer, better models. But it was a cash cow. When they finally replaced it with a thinly disguised Chevy Malibu (1997 generation), it was another and perhaps the key death blow to Oldsmobile. They lost a lot of volume there.
 
#8 ·
G vans ran 25 years 1971-1996. so 1996-2020 is 24 years for the Express/Savana. For a Market Owned by the Econoline, why Spend on what works (somewhat). Well the Transit's success shows you "Why Spend"
Transit is easily dominating this market. GM just doesn't care and is going to screw up what equity they have in the Express/Savana. Sounds familiar doesnt it??
 
#10 ·
Can the lateral G's be improved? Asking for my plumber.

Ford certainly stole sales with their new vans, but what GM lost may not be worth the cost of a redesign. Meaning the costs to develop new vans might be more than lost profits due to decreased sales volume. Without seeing the numbers, I say don't touch it unless the sales really crater.
 
#13 ·
I have a buddy who works for Crane lift trucks. They're switching over their whole fleet of vans to the Transit. The ability to have multiple heights, lengths and sizes of vans but still all be under the same dealer network is huge for them. He absolutely loves working in his high roof van. He previously had an Express and hated it. He is taller, only 6' 1", but would have to crawl around in the Express for parts and even had his own pull out table to work on.

These numbers are for 2019 because 2020 has become a poopshow:

Express 77,457 4.66%
Savana 24,226 23.07%

Transit 153,868 11.67%
Transit Connect 41,598 30.31%

Yea, Ford might be losing money on them but I hardly doubt it. GM has such goodwill in this segment and they're just going to let it rot. Hard to watch.
 
#14 · (Edited)
I think GM's future plans for the van involve electrification, although I'm not sure how well that works for a vehicle that needs tremendous up-time. Otherwise GM has long since surrendered this customer to Ford. Ford even updated the E-Series cutaway for 2021 with a new interior and the 7.3L V8 with the 10-speed. Not to mention Transits which also have enormous global volume. The GM vans have got to be at the very bottom of the van spectrum, commanding the lowest pricing for the least amount of features and utility.
 
#17 ·
I find it interesting that GM is entering the heavy duty truck segments but we don't see them doing anything in the van segment. Meaning they see value in the commercial segment (and yes, I fully understand heavy duty trucks are very different from vans). To me, it's trying to figure out what they are doing - they are certainly aware of the inroads Ford has made. Are they just waiting, as you said, to go electric? Or conserving cash by not redesigning the van and funneling the profits into non-consumer electrics. Or, something else, or simply milking the vans to only exit the market when they no longer make money. This is where I miss the old GM that would've been telling us for 10 years how awesome their new vans will be :D
 
#19 ·
Doesn't matter anymore, GM decided long ago to abandon this line. If they can still find people dumb enough to spend top dollar on a nearing 20 year old design and tech while there are other manufactures around that offer something designed within this century, good on them.
 
#20 ·
Here's an idea: Take the lousy dash from the current Silverado/Sierra and stick it in these vans where it would still be seen as an upgrade. They wouldn't be out of place there and they'd probably have very low re-tooling costs.
 
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#26 ·
Not a bad idea, but I doubt it would fit without significant modifications; maybe the dash out of a 1996 Silverado, but would that be an upgrade?


Shocking news right here. This man would buy an Express!
Yes indeed; the equivalent of buying a pair of work-boots because you worship the brand, regardless of how bad they hurt your feet............


Would the Express/Savana be part of the 12% of products that's profitable? :)
Brilliant thought! At some point there comes a time when the "savings" can't overcome the price reductions.

For context, here is another car that was new in about the same 1996 time-frame................

 
#28 ·
I'm surprised that GM doesn't at least update them with new pieces out of the parts-bin. For example, someone above mentioned the radio being late-2000's GM. Couldn't they take pieces from other GM models (like the radio units, window switches, steering wheels, headlights, etc.) and use them to freshen up the Express and Savannah a bit? I imagine it wouldn't cost that much since many of these parts are already in production. They're just new parts-bin parts.
 
#32 ·
They're keeping the powertrains up to date, 4.3 (gen5) and 8 speed. I have a 2019 with the 6L and 6 speed (6l90, I believe). I had an e250 before it (4.6, 4 speed). It's ok, has some ergonomic issues as well as some low hanging fruit.

Ironically the E250 rode better. It rode like crap when I emptied it out to trade it in, but with all the weight it was just fine. This rode decent empty but is a squishy cloud fully loaded. So squishy it's slightly dangerous. Currently has 25k on it and it's been like that since new. I put the tires at 70-80 cold instead of 60-80 like recommended to help a little.

E250 had a better sounding radio by far.

The steering wheel is too far away in the express, so you end up sliding the seat forward then destroying your leg on the door pocket as you get in and out until you learn to very strategically slide in and out.

The Express and it's 6L has a ton more power, if you fill it with e85 it actually scoots pretty good. The 4.6 was anemic, but it had much more aggressive programming. The express is super lazy in downshifts, it just has plenty of power to make up for it.

Overall my Express has a lot more options and looks better than the E250, with the options like remote start, 6L, locking rear diff for the winter, cruise control and a bluetooth radio I like it more. If my E250 was fully loaded (for a work van) I probably would have liked it more.
 
#35 ·
I would love to have any of the GM vans hot rodded. I just love those vans!. At my old job I used to drive a diesel one back and forth to Harrisburg PA....I loved making that run in that van.

With the Transit however, I can get the TT3.5 with AWD in a dually chassis..Talk about being torn....If I hit the lottery (guess I'd have to start playing it);I'd buy both.
 
#39 ·
I rented a Ford Transit and the seats were terrible. That being said if I knew someone that had gotten a half million miles on one that would make me consider it.

I am now at about 110,000 miles per year driving with my courier business. I put 400,000 miles on my 2013 Express and currently have 325,000 miles on my 2017 Express. I plan on running the 2017 past 500,000 miles as it has proven even more reliable then then the 2013.
 
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#40 ·
Having recently worked at a rental company where U do the moving, we had the Savannahs then went to Transit and ProMasters. After a year the ProMasters were gone and the Transits were replaced as they wore out (2-3 years) with new Savannah's. The BOF nature meant they were much more durable in that business and use than the uni-body vans. If I were buying a van for work, it would certainly be an AWD GM van. Though, if I were buying one for livery service or the family, it would be a Transit for the better ride.
 
#44 ·
IMHO there are 2 things that NEED to be updated with the GM twins
"A" a NEW body that comes in various heights / lengths and
"B" the BAD FUEL economy

for "A" something like the high top NV1500 / factory "bubble top" would do the trick
and for "B" that 2.7 turbo 4 and the NEW 3.0L TD from the Silverado and the 10 speed
those 2 IMHO would put GM vans "back on the map"

a BONUS #3 would be LOWER load floors but keeping the frame and not going unibody makes that hard
 
#46 ·
I average 17 1/2 mpg combined. That is not poor FE, as a matter of fact its about the same as the 3/4 ton transit.

I agree about offering a higher roof though that would be fantastic.
 
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#50 ·
So take this for what it's worth but I moved into a brand new house on December 31st and the neighborhood is still under construction with new houses being built, I walk it daily since I am still WFH for the foreseeable future, and all the vans on all the construction sites are all Ford Econolines. Not far from my neighborhood is an outdoor outlet mall and behind there is a warehouse where Amazon stores stuff at the same time every morning you can see an almost endless line of amazon vans going out all at once all of them are Transits and Sprinters.
 
#54 ·
I'll offer an explanation here that my very own brother in law told me, he owns an electrition contracting company, has so since 1995. He has been through many cargo vans.

The 3/4 ton GM's with the 6.0 is the most dependable by far. He gets over 250,000km plus out of them easy and still going strong when he updates. Said the interior plastics fall apart and he keeps a stock himself of door handles and door handle hardware. But the drivetrains are rock solid and the lack of repairs, cheap maintenance, and low initial cost keep him coming back. He could care less about what they look like, it's all about uptime and cost of operation. He currently has eleven 3/4 ton and four 1/2 ton GM vans.

He has a few Transits. Had a few electrical issues but otherwise said they're fine. His mechanic basically told him to expect half the engine life or less of what he was getting in the GM's and twice the cost to fix. Said that he gets a better deal on the GM vans. Said he won't likely buy anymore. Some of the drivers don't like the way they handle on the highway.

Tried some Promasters, he couldn't remember but thinks he bought six or so. Nightmares, engine and transmission problems, door hinges, and other issues. He said they were the worst vans he's ever had.

Also has two Sprinter diesels. Totally fine with them but the cost to buy and maintain are too high. Bought these for his top guys as a reward for service.

So, GM keeps the vans because some fleet buyers don't care how long ago they were redesigned. He knows these battleaxes in and out and what to expect from them. He'd rather deal with cheap plastics than mechanical issues. When he started he ran a 50/50 mix of Econolines and was generally happy with the Fords too. Told me if GM went to a front-drive of small V6 van he might consider them, but would prefer the same powerteam with a updated body.
 
#55 ·
nice to see real world experience
I have seen GM 6.0s run for 400K + and only need an oil pump rebuild for another 400
the ones we have up north make it about 100000K and the bodies are done but the powertrain is as good as new / fleet is Mostly E series because of better parts supply availability in the far north - the vans are used as Ambulances / Taxi service and it is a 4+ HOUR drive nearly off road to civilization from the reservation
 
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