A Look Back: "GMs X-Cars: Anatomy of a Miserable Failure" - Page 2

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Thread: A Look Back: "GMs X-Cars: Anatomy of a Miserable Failure"

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    Re: A Look Back: "GMs X-Cars: Anatomy of a Miserable Failure"

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert1969 View Post
    They hate GM because somebody told them about the X-cars or the Cimarron, not because they have any actual experience with them.
    If they did have any experience owning and/or driving those cars, they would hate GM even more!

    Quote Originally Posted by ryannel2003 View Post
    Maybe not but I'm 29 years old and I can remember the countless crappy Cavalier, Sunfire, Grand Am, Alero, Catera, Lumina and Monte Carlo's from the 90's and it's easy to see why GM's reputation still hasn't recovered. Say what you want but get out of one of those into any comparable Honda, Toyota or Nissan from the same decade and it is blatantly obvious that GM was behind.
    Exactly. As the saying goes, malaise era GM crapboxes like the FWD X platform models were the best advertising that Toyota, Honda, and Nissan could possibly ask for.
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    Re: A Look Back: "GMs X-Cars: Anatomy of a Miserable Failure"

    I had an 80 Citation for five years. Didn't experience rust, braking issues, or pieces falling off. Only problem was the carburetor. If fuel injection had been introduced a couple of years earlier, I would have kept it longer.

    The X cars were the SUVs of the day in terms of carrying capacity. My golfing buddies got one too to carry the four of us, our luggage, clubs, and hand carts. I brought home a small sofa and another time a washing machine with the rear seat folded.
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    Re: A Look Back: "GMs X-Cars: Anatomy of a Miserable Failure"

    My wife and I bought a new 1981 Chevrolet Citation 4-door hatchback with the 2.5 L “Iron Duke” engine and automatic transmission. It was our first front-wheel drive vehicle and first 4-door vehicle. It replaced a 1975 Chevrolet Nova Custom with the 350 CID engine with a 4-barrel carburetor (also purchased new).

    The design of the body, with the hatchback, provided significant room for a young family with children. The front-wheel drive drove very well in the snow, which was a significant improvement over the rear-wheel drive vehicles (no traction control or ABS then....). The hatchback provided easy access and plenty of storage room.

    At idle or at slow speeds, the dash board would shake violently if the a/c was switched on. The a/c caused the engine to surge at idle or slow speeds. The medium blue metallic paint began to peel off the front, rounded edge of the hood within a year. The vehicle was delivered with two out-of-round steel wheels, which caused severe vibration when driving at moderate speeds (full factory wheel-covers). The two black rubber straps (which lifted the cargo removable cargo shelf when the hatchback was opened) broke repeatedly. I kept spares in the trunk.

    The quality and reliability of the new Citation was the worst of any vehicle I have ever purchased new. I have been driving for 49 years and have bought many new cars. The transmission (valve body) failed repeatedly while under warranty (then 2-year or 24,000 miles). The brakes were terrible, especially at slow speeds when there seemed to be low vacuum. The braking in reverse at slow speeds was scary. Numerous items failed quickly and the rear hatch window leaked water the day we brought it home.

    We replaced the vehicle with a new 1984 Chevrolet Celebrity 4-door Eurosport with the 2.8 L V-6 engine. The quality and reliability was very good, and we enjoyed that car very much.

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    Re: A Look Back: "GMs X-Cars: Anatomy of a Miserable Failure"

    I put 35K miles in one year on a Pontiac Phoenix company car working my GMC Truck dealer district in 1981. Never had a problem, very reliable car.

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    Re: A Look Back: "GMs X-Cars: Anatomy of a Miserable Failure"

    I remember them well and while they were not popular there was still a good number of them on the road in the mid-1980's. They were on par with much of the domestic competition at that time. I know I know, that's not saying much.

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    Re: A Look Back: "GMs X-Cars: Anatomy of a Miserable Failure"

    I had friends who had Citations and Skylarks and while they were decent enough cars for US brands, now comparison to Toyota or Honda was a whole 'nother thing. I even had a 1980 Omega 4dr sedan for a while. Thing I remember the most about it and also the '86 Cavalier later on were that they always felt like a bigger car than they were when driving them.

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    Re: A Look Back: "GMs X-Cars: Anatomy of a Miserable Failure"

    Yes, especially impact protection, and really the lack of value - given what the Yen Subsidy was worth back then.


    Yeah, I said that.


    ****

    X cars and the Cimarron properly optioned etc as a sorted out and at least acceptable product were more than ok in their last year or two or three depending.



    'Course by then, the A cars got all the light.....
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    Re: A Look Back: "GMs X-Cars: Anatomy of a Miserable Failure"

    Quote Originally Posted by richmond2000 View Post
    I have a "weird" thing for the X11
    my great grandma had an Omega when I was young and I remember being picked up in it often
    My buddies mom in grade-school had a gold one, my dad shopped for one often, basically wanted any of them with a V6; ultimately bought a 1986 Grand AM SE, with the 3.0L V6.

    Anyway, I remember the radio and HVAC went vertical instead of horizontal.


    Quote Originally Posted by jzchev28 View Post
    My parents had a Citation when I was young, we had good luck with it.
    Keyword here is "luck"...................


    Quote Originally Posted by Robert1969 View Post
    The thing is most of the people who criticize GM today probably never stepped foot in an X car or a Cimarron or any of those 1980s GM debacles. We literally have car reviewers who can’t shut the **** up about the Cimarron who likely never seen one in person, and if they did they did, they’d have no basis to make a comparison.

    They hate GM because somebody told them about the X-cars or the Cimarron, not because they have any actual experience with them.
    So GM deserve no criticism unless you've stepped foot in a X car? Because when the X-car production ended, GM stopped making crappy cars?

    The "Cimarron Example" is one of those epic blunders GM made, as a result it lives on............ Just because someone didn't see one, doesn't mean it didn't happen........


    Quote Originally Posted by ryannel2003 View Post
    Maybe not but I'm 29 years old and I can remember the countless crappy Cavalier, Sunfire, Grand Am, Alero, Catera, Lumina and Monte Carlo's from the 90's and it's easy to see why GM's reputation still hasn't recovered. Say what you want but get out of one of those into any comparable Honda, Toyota or Nissan from the same decade and it is blatantly obvious that GM was behind.
    Exactly!
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    Re: A Look Back: "GMs X-Cars: Anatomy of a Miserable Failure"

    My father leased an '81 Phoenix SJ two-door notchback. The only problem he reported with it was the ancillary gauges fell out of the dash after he traversed a rough railroad crossing. He traded the Phoenix for an '82 Firebird S/E.

    I wanted a '82 Citation X-11 for my first car buy by the time I turned 16, the Citation was out of production.

    Neighbors two houses away were a true one-car family (the father was part of a four-man rotating carpool). He traded his '74 Impala for an '82 Citation four-door hatch, which they had for two years before an '84 Celebrity sedan replaced it.

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    Re: A Look Back: "GMs X-Cars: Anatomy of a Miserable Failure"

    Quote Originally Posted by ksr View Post
    Well, the Citation came out when I was 16. I'm 55 now. But most people who buy cars are considerably older than 16, so the bulk of Citation buyers may no longer be driving and are quite possibly dead.

    With GM and Ford, there seems to be no statute of limitation on bitterness. It's even passed on to future generations.
    Get burned bad enough with something as expensive as a car and you’ll make sure everybody you care about is aware lest they taste your pain, ESPECIALLY your kids. I had two bad experiences with LG, a front load washer and a TV. Considerably cheaper than cars... 10 years on not only do I avoid their products with great prejudice, if I’m aware of people looking at product segments LG is in I still mention it.

    I used to be a GM fanboy, never got severly burned by a GM, am still fond of the pre corporate products when I believe they were truly rhe best, and love a few post corporate products that had enough redeeming value to allow me to excuse the shortcomings. But long ago they quit making stuff that were enough of a ‘total package’ to have any compelling value proposition. Its like there aren’t enough left in GM that love cars, let alone hve any idea of what the remaining brands could and should be.

    Its too bad really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruperts Trooper View Post
    That's how reputations work - easy to aquire a bad one but takes forever to (re)gain a good one.
    Yep. They say you only lose your credibility once. Reminds me of corporate orgs whose culture turns toxic, its VERY hard to recover, as well as a very narrow path. Compounded by the fact that managment trying to solve the toxicity are often blind to the fact that they themselves are at the root of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ryannel2003 View Post
    Maybe not but I'm 29 years old and I can remember the countless crappy Cavalier, Sunfire, Grand Am, Alero, Catera, Lumina and Monte Carlo's from the 90's and it's easy to see why GM's reputation still hasn't recovered. Say what you want but get out of one of those into any comparable Honda, Toyota or Nissan from the same decade and it is blatantly obvious that GM was behind.
    Sad but true, and back then as a fanboy I denied those facts or minimized them. Even got the folks back into GM’s after a few toyotas—a genI j body, L body, and S/T truck, all of which had a number of issues. They are back in toyotas and hondas now (and trouble free again). Why would they ever risk it again?

    But at least those cars you mention had some American-ness to them. Other than the trucks I no longer perceive that with whats in the showroom (heck even GM leadership is said to have not considered itself American for the last 20 yrs. if they don’t why should I?). Can that change? Sure. But will it? I’m not holding my breath.
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    Re: A Look Back: "GMs X-Cars: Anatomy of a Miserable Failure"

    LOL I try to forget those rolling examples of poor engineering and low quality workmanship from GM, and this thread shows an article that practice necromancy digging up GM's post 1973 past.
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    Re: A Look Back: "GMs X-Cars: Anatomy of a Miserable Failure"

    Quote Originally Posted by ryannel2003 View Post
    Maybe not but I'm 29 years old and I can remember the countless crappy Cavalier, Sunfire, Grand Am, Alero, Catera, Lumina and Monte Carlo's from the 90's and it's easy to see why GM's reputation still hasn't recovered. Say what you want but get out of one of those into any comparable Honda, Toyota or Nissan from the same decade and it is blatantly obvious that GM was behind.
    No so fast! GM's cars were not that bad. I owned many GM cars back then they were better than many foreign cars. The worst car I've ever owned was a Datsun. I bought it bran new and before it reached 10,000 miles I had all kind of major problems with it. The engine, transmission, brakes. I sold it with 12000 miles on it and it looked nice, but I felt sorry for the buyer.
    Many cars back then had problems. It didn't matter who built them. I know Consumers Report really picked on the domestic cars and Toyota got a free pass. Consumers Report undeservedly helped Toyota get a foothold in the USA and many other people will tell you that.

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    Re: A Look Back: "GMs X-Cars: Anatomy of a Miserable Failure"

    My first car was a 4door hatchback Citation, I loved that thing. I inherited my sister's 2door notchback stick later on. Always wanted an X-11. To this day, I smile when I see a Malibu Maxx, takes me back to those days. Actively searching for both, an X-11 and a Maxx SS!!!!

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    Re: A Look Back: "GMs X-Cars: Anatomy of a Miserable Failure"

    Another reason why GM is now one of the most hated companies in America. It was another under engineered, rushed to market vehicle, a great follow up to the Vega. It kept their lawyers and PR department quite busy. Hindsight is 20-20 but just imagine if they would of taken say an extra 2 years to develop these properly. I always thought they were ugly cars, so square and boxy. My friend's parents had an 85 with the 2.8. I remember the HP rating was 112. That little bugger good go though compared to most of the econoboxes of the day and it was quicker than Malibus and Cutlasses of the day with 267 and 305. It had the letters PJ under the citation name on both sides, we said that stood for Piece of Junk. Still to this day I don't know if that PJ was an actual Chevy designation. It probably was, it's definitely something a marketing exec would think up. My parents knew a lady from church that drove an X11. I saw her 2-3 years ago and I went up to her and said I remember you used to drive a cool looking Chevy Citation. Ha Ha.

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    Re: A Look Back: "GMs X-Cars: Anatomy of a Miserable Failure"

    Quote Originally Posted by Cruising in a Cruze View Post
    It had the letters PJ under the citation name on both sides, we said that stood for Piece of Junk. Still to this day I don't know if that PJ was an actual Chevy designation. It probably was, it's definitely something a marketing exec would think up. My parents knew a lady from church that drove an X11.
    It must have been a joke, there was never a Citation PJ. There was, however, a Phoenix LJ and SJ.
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