The Future of The Pickup Truck: No Easy Answers; 4-Cyl full size trucks coming?

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Thread: The Future of The Pickup Truck: No Easy Answers; 4-Cyl full size trucks coming?

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    The Future of The Pickup Truck: No Easy Answers; 4-Cyl full size trucks coming?

    Automotive News
    June 16, 2016

    “On fuel economy, the regulators allow you to pay a fine if you fall short. But on greenhouse gas, they don’t. You either meet the standard or they shut you down.’’

    Cutting fuel consumption reduces greenhouse gases, so Ford and other manufacturers are racing to incorporate new technologies in their pickups, including gas-electric hybrids and 10-speed transmissions.

    Pickups face inherent disadvantages: Towing, payload and off-road capabilities customers want mean they weigh 12 percent to 15 percent more than comparable cars, plus they have the aerodynamic efficiency of bricks, Duleep said.

    Mary Nichols, chairman of the California board, said regulators were caught off guard by the truck surge and now need to push manufacturers to equip them with the same fuel-saving technologies as cars, including aerodynamic designs and more gas-electric hybrids, especially in small trucks used for personal transportation.

    Sergio Marchionne, CEO of Fiat Chrysler Automobiles, has said his 2018 model Ram will save fuel with a bigger battery that lets the engine shut off at stoplights

    Thirty percent of Ford’s F-150s already have this type of battery, and the share will rise to 60 percent next year. By 2020, Ford will have a hybrid pickup with batteries powerful enough for daily driving, CEO Mark Fields has said.

    Ford also is testing a diesel-powered F-150, and may add a 4-cylinder engine for the first time in the U.S., a person familiar with the plans said. That may be a hard sell on the farms and construction sites where Ford has championed big, powerful V-8s for decades.

    “Every upgrade we made to F-150 is to improve how customers use their truck,” Ford’s Levine said. “Lighter materials help F-150 tow and haul more than any other light-duty truck, while also providing best-in-class gasoline fuel efficiency.”

    GM -- which is bashing the durability of F-150 aluminum beds in new ads -- will be forced to join Ford in using more aluminum to save weight in components including engine blocks, transmission cases, fenders and doors, said Mark Stevens, a retired GM vice president for engineering and manufacturing.

    The new technologies save fuel but add thousands in consumer costs. Between 2011 and May 2016, the average price of full-size pickups jumped 24 percent -- almost triple the pace for all new vehicles -- to $41,606, according to J.D. Power & Associates.

    Regulators measure fuel economy and emissions by setting separate car and truck targets for each size vehicle, then using sales-weighted formulas to determine a corporate average. They give credits for eco-friendly technologies, including aerodynamic design, then fine companies whose fuel-economy average is still too low.

    Detroit faces an uphill battle for pickup relief because it already extracted a huge compromise: Obama agreed in 2011 to keep SuperCab-size truck mandates relatively flat for a decade and then accelerate them as fast as those for cars.

    Automakers now want more time to reach the 2025 targets, even if they can’t change the direction regulators are heading. Within nine years, the U.S., European Union, China and Japan are scheduled to require fuel economy of 45.9 mpg or more and CO2 emissions of 122 grams per kilometer or less. Hitting the CO2 target in the U.S. means a 53 percent reduction since 2000, according to the International Council on Clean Transportation.

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    Re: The Future of The Pickup Truck: No Easy Answers; 4-Cyl full size trucks coming?

    When you realize that GM, Ford and FCA are really pickup truck companies with a selection of cars for compliance purposes, this becomes a most serious conversation.

    The future of the full-sized pickup truck may be a luxury that we are currently taking for granted. The profits on these vehicles must be protected for the health of the industry.

    The concept of a Silverado with a form of the Volt's technology is suddenly a real possibility, but will the average pickup truck owner accept this change in powertrain, and the resulting cost?

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    Re: The Future of The Pickup Truck: No Easy Answers; 4-Cyl full size trucks coming?

    Need some intelligent people in government. Then perhaps they will get rid of the stupid CO2 rules.

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    Re: The Future of The Pickup Truck: No Easy Answers; 4-Cyl full size trucks coming?

    Pickup trucks have become ridiculously big and part of the culture for a lot of people who don't have much real use of a pickup truck. GM, Ford and FCA understandably love the huge profits on the vehicles and pretend it's somehow not possible to produce a small fuel efficient pickup truck. Obviously it is, but why mess with your greatest cash cow? The average pickup truck owner will either need to accept more fuel efficient trucks with Volt type technology or move to smaller trucks which someone will offer.

    Meanwhile be happy there are people in government who realize clean air isn't just a good goal, but sort of essential for life.
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    Re: The Future of The Pickup Truck: No Easy Answers; 4-Cyl full size trucks coming?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket 88 View Post
    Pickup trucks have become ridiculously big and part of the culture for a lot of people who don't have much real use of a pickup truck. GM, Ford and FCA understandably love the huge profits on the vehicles and pretend it's somehow not possible to produce a small fuel efficient pickup truck. Obviously it is, but why mess with your greatest cash cow? The average pickup truck owner will either need to accept more fuel efficient trucks with Volt type technology or move to smaller trucks which someone will offer.

    Meanwhile be happy there are people in government who realize clean air isn't just a good goal, but sort of essential for life.
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    Re: The Future of The Pickup Truck: No Easy Answers; 4-Cyl full size trucks coming?

    Yup the Millennial Malaise era is right around the corner. Ridiculous overly complex and small engines- check. Ever increasing prices- check. Questionable materials and long term reliability- check. The good 'ol days is right now folks.

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    Re: The Future of The Pickup Truck: No Easy Answers; 4-Cyl full size trucks coming?

    Quote Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65 View Post
    Thanks for your incredible insight. I wasn't aware this product was offered!

    Seriously, I said SMALL. Not mid-size trucks that are about as big as full size trucks use to be. I applaud GM for the product and it was a great move for them but it's not the end of what the market needs.
    We use to have real small pickup trucks back in the 80's and 90's. Or more recently something like the Granite.
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    Re: The Future of The Pickup Truck: No Easy Answers; 4-Cyl full size trucks coming?

    Still waiting for that Silverado w/ a electric secondary motor

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    Re: The Future of The Pickup Truck: No Easy Answers; 4-Cyl full size trucks coming?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket 88 View Post
    Pickup trucks have become ridiculously big and part of the culture for a lot of people who don't have much real use of a pickup truck. GM, Ford and FCA understandably love the huge profits on the vehicles and pretend it's somehow not possible to produce a small fuel efficient pickup truck. Obviously it is, but why mess with your greatest cash cow? The average pickup truck owner will either need to accept more fuel efficient trucks with Volt type technology or move to smaller trucks which someone will offer.

    Meanwhile be happy there are people in government who realize clean air isn't just a good goal, but sort of essential for life.
    I'm not happy with even the mid-sized pickups that are offered. In the past, I owned 3 brand new pickups...s10s and a Sonoma. THAT is the size of something I want. I do not need to tow a lot (or anything at all) or carry around thousands of pounds. I just want a bed to haul some light weight stuff in..but pretty often. Basically, a compact car with a bed.

    I'm anxiously awaiting the Hyundai Santa Cruz...if it ever gets built.

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    Re: The Future of The Pickup Truck: No Easy Answers; 4-Cyl full size trucks coming?

    Its time GM started downsizing the full size 1/2-ton pickups. Todays 1/2-ton pickups are the size of the 3/4-1 ton pickups of a decade plus ago. Smaller overall dimensions (ala 2016 Camaro) reduced front end size/more aerodynamic, use of aluminum in certain areas and GM can cut weight significantly. In '88 when the 1/2-tons (GMT400) were released, the front end design was more aero/rounded than the previous generation. The GMT400's were everywhere, and they were the leaders in the Sport truck boom. Dealerships in my local area were modifying the 1/2-ton pickups and displaying them on their lots. Both Ford and Ram followed suit a handful of years later. The F150 went to a more aero front end in 1997 and the Ram in 2002. The 1/2-tons have become too big and fat in my opinion and I would love to see them go back down in size to the GMT400's.

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    Re: The Future of The Pickup Truck: No Easy Answers; 4-Cyl full size trucks coming?

    ARB Chair Mary Nichols profile:

    Quote Originally Posted by ARB said
    Appointed August 2007 by Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger


    Mary D. Nichols is Chair of the California Air Resources Board, a post she has held since 2007. She also served as Chair of the Air Resources Board from 1979-1983.

    Nichols has devoted her entire career in public and nonprofit service to advocating for the environment and public health. In addition to her work at the Air Board, she has served as Assistant Administrator for the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's Air and Radiation program under President Clinton, Secretary for California's Resources Agency from 1999 to 2003 and Director of the Institute of the Environment at the University of California, Los Angeles.

    Her priorities as Chair include moving ahead on the state's landmark climate change program (AB 32), steering the Board through numerous efforts to curb diesel pollution at ports and continuing to pass regulations aimed at providing cleaner air for Southern California and the San Joaquin Valley. She values innovation, partnerships and common-sense approaches to addressing the state's air issues.

    The Board is supported by a professional staff of scientists, engineers, economists, lawyers and policy experts, with an annual operating budget of more than $860 million.
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    Re: The Future of The Pickup Truck: No Easy Answers; 4-Cyl full size trucks coming?

    Quote Originally Posted by mjd1001 View Post
    I'm not happy with even the mid-sized pickups that are offered. In the past, I owned 3 brand new pickups...s10s and a Sonoma. THAT is the size of something I want. I do not need to tow a lot (or anything at all) or carry around thousands of pounds. I just want a bed to haul some light weight stuff in..but pretty often. Basically, a compact car with a bed.

    I'm anxiously awaiting the Hyundai Santa Cruz...if it ever gets built.
    It's a shame we weren't offered this along with the SS sedan. I would've bought this in a heartbeat.

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    Re: The Future of The Pickup Truck: No Easy Answers; 4-Cyl full size trucks coming?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cajun G8 View Post
    It's a shame we weren't offered this along with the SS sedan. I would've bought this in a heartbeat.

    I was in favor of bringing this over when GM floated the idea of the G8 ST, but looking at it now no thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket 88 View Post
    Pickup trucks have become ridiculously big and part of the culture for a lot of people who don't have much real use of a pickup truck. GM, Ford and FCA understandably love the huge profits on the vehicles and pretend it's somehow not possible to produce a small fuel efficient pickup truck. Obviously it is, but why mess with your greatest cash cow? The average pickup truck owner will either need to accept more fuel efficient trucks with Volt type technology or move to smaller trucks which someone will offer.

    Meanwhile be happy there are people in government who realize clean air isn't just a good goal, but sort of essential for life.
    Mmmhmm those lithium mines that are being used to replace the evil gasoline engines are sure great for the environment



    Wait, what? This is the problem with government regulators making "goals" like this: it ends up outsourcing the pollution where it is out a mind of the majority of the people so they can pat themselves on a back for a job well done. Electric cars aren't any better for the environment than gasoline ones, but the illusion of that being true means the current regulator wave is to push electric cars. Gasoline engines waste a ton of the power held in gasoline, so they aren't great, but let's not pretend that batteries are the savior of the industry.
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    Re: The Future of The Pickup Truck: No Easy Answers; 4-Cyl full size trucks coming?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perian View Post
    When you realize that GM, Ford and FCA are really pickup truck companies with a selection of cars for compliance purposes, this becomes a most serious conversation.

    The future of the full-sized pickup truck may be a luxury that we are currently taking for granted. The profits on these vehicles must be protected for the health of the industry.

    The concept of a Silverado with a form of the Volt's technology is suddenly a real possibility, but will the average pickup truck owner accept this change in powertrain, and the resulting cost?

    .
    Technically they are faced with the same delima they had in 1976 when all the cars were oversized behemouths and had to be downsized to meet fuel economy and emission standards.
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    Re: The Future of The Pickup Truck: No Easy Answers; 4-Cyl full size trucks coming?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket 88 View Post

    Meanwhile be happy there are people in government who realize clean air isn't just a good goal, but sort of essential for life.
    ...and this proves that manipulating the language is critical to manipulating the masses. I believe George Orwell called it doublespeak in his masterpiece, 1984.

    This isn't about clean air. It's about Carbon Dioxide.

    However, carbon dioxide has recently been defined by the government as a greenhouse gas. In the minds of people with only so much room in their brain for gorilla videos and science junk, that's the same thing as "clean air". I bet I could organize a gofundme account to stop the rainforest from taking in so much carbon dioxide.

    ...and carbon dioxide is sorta essential for life.

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