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Chevy, Toyota claim sales lead

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#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
MARK PHELAN: Chevy, Toyota claim sales lead

Their TV ads tout best-seller status in a duel over truth

June 21, 2005

BY MARK PHELAN
FREE PRESS COLUMNIST

Figures lie, and liars figure.

The old men drinking Coke on the porch of the general store used to say that when I was a kid in Thomasville, Ga., and it's still true today.

Chevrolet and Toyota each claimed to be the best-selling line of passenger cars in the United States in 2004 in TV commercials that aired within minutes of each other during a Pistons playoff game last week.

Somebody's lying here.

First place is not divisible in this race, and the distance between first and second is measured in money and jobs.

Bragging rights for sales translate to corporate profit and jobs on the assembly line. They also add up to a spring in the engineers' step, confidence in the salesperson's pitch and pride in the company you work for.

"Statements like that encourage people to shop at our dealers and consider our cars," Toyota Motor Corp. spokesman John McCandless said of the ad.

Equally, "it's important to Chevrolet and our dealer body," spokesman Joe Jacuzzi said. "It's definitely important. If you're selling well, it shows that consumers believe in your products."

Claiming leadership can put a brand on buyers' shopping lists, said Joe Phillippi, principal of AutoTrends Consulting Inc. in Short Hills, N.J.

"It can get buyers to spend more time on the Internet looking through your model line," he said. "I don't think claiming to be the best-seller convinces anybody to buy a car, but it gets them to consider your brand."

Sales leadership is also important enough that General Motors Corp. once cooked the books in order to claim Cadillac was the best-selling luxury brand in the United States.

In one of the most embarrassing moments in Cadillac's century-plus history, the brand claimed 4,773 fictitious sales in 1998. That gave Cadillac a 300-car margin over Lincoln for the year, but GM was forced to apologize publicly to Ford Motor Co. and its Lincoln brand when the fraud became apparent.

Nothing that egregious happened here, but there was the definite scent of mendacity in the room after the two commercials aired.

"It all depends on how you manipulate the data," Phillippi said. "You can make a lot of claims depending on how you define your terms."

Chevrolet defines its terms pretty simply. It counted all cars with Chevy's bow tie badge that it sold in calendar 2004.

By that measure, Chevrolet clearly was the best-selling line of cars in the United States last year. It sold 917,887 cars, while Toyota delivered 865,832 cars wearing its stylized "T" badge.

To make its leadership claim defensible, Toyota combined sales by the Toyota and Scion brands. Toyota sold 99,259 Scion cars in 2004.

Scion is the mini-brand Toyota launched two years ago to win young buyers who think they are too cool to drive a Camry or a Corolla.

Toyota treats Scion as a separate brand when it suits the company's purposes, including in the sales numbers it releases to the media each month. But not all Toyota dealers are allowed to sell Scion's funky model line, and the Toyota consumer Web site, www.toyota.com, does not list any of Scion's models under the link to Toyota cars. Scion shows up in small print at the bottom of the homepage, not far from a link to "your privacy rights."

Toyota defines Scion as part of the Toyota division, despite the fact that Scion's three quirky little cars have their own logo and a carefully crafted strategy to create a unique appeal for the brand.



Continue Reading... http://www.freep.com/money/autoreviews/phelan21e_20050621.htm
 
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#3 ·
This is such b.s.; Toyota should have to pay for another add saying they are lying. When it comes to sales, they are treated as one brand. When it comes to J.D. Power Reports, suddenly they are two. Toyota's place in JD's rating would drop like 4 places if Scion was included in the Toyota brands.
 
#9 ·
I've mentioned this issue in previous posts (which is why I'm inclined to list Toyota's monthly sales with and without Scion's figures). With that in mind, I think Toyota sans Scion is actually ahead of Chevrolet YTD, so the point may be moot.

It seems that the media and Toyota are so to willing to let Toyota count Scion when it comes to sales. But when it comes to quality, the story changes. Then, lower-quality Scion products are considered as products of a separate division. Interesting.

So which is it, Toyota? Is Scion a part of Toyota Division or not? Yes or no, it's really that simple.
 
#10 ·
zonty said:
Hmmm...Does Toyota still call the Solara the "Camry Solara" so that it can include Solara sales numbers in the total for Camry sales, artificially inflating Camry sales numbers?

Sneaky, very sneaky.
Chevrolet should play the same game: Impala and Impala Monte Carlo. The midsized car segment would look more favorable to the Domestics if that were the case.
 
#11 ·
zonty said:
Hmmm...Does Toyota still call the Solara the "Camry Solara" so that it can include Solara sales numbers in the total for Camry sales, artificially inflating Camry sales numbers?

Sneaky, very sneaky.
accord just calls their 2 door the accord coupe... ditto G6, 90's Grand Prix... not too sneaky IMO (though Chevy could consider renaming the Monte Carlo if they really wanna compete sales wise). i think they added the solara title in the late 90's so it wouldn't be just the camry in the eyes of coupe buyers. the matrix issue is a bit bigger since it didn't begin as a corolla 5 door in the 90's like the solara was to camry. just be glad the highlander isn't Camry Highlander, and the Camry Sienna for the minivan. scions shouldn't be counted in toyota sales though... unless they add them to their quality results or let chevy count saturns or suzukis or something.
 
#12 ·
member12 said:
Chevrolet: make a big deal of this please. It will make toyota look bad.
I think it would do the opposite. GM can't catch a break in the media right now, and if they pressed this issue it might end up looking like Chevy is nit-picking, or that they're scared of Toyota. I'm not saying its true, but once the media filters it, I'm sure Toyota would end up smelling like a rose.
 
#13 ·
The more I think about this the more it pisses me off. If Toyota wants to help out the domestics so much and are so worried about anti Japanese sentiments they could always try a little thing called HONESTY!

There is a bright side to this though, the fact that it is getting reported, that in and of itself is good news for GM :D
 
#14 ·
Well, if they really wanted to break it down in numbers, they should compare Toyota and GM, not Toyota and Chevy. Toyota is the parent and GM is the parent. It just so happens that there is a brand called Toyota and not a brand called GM. If Toyota wanted to be fair it would be Toyota, Lexus and Scion versus Chevy, GMC, Saturn, Hummer, Saab, Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac. And if you wanted to go Global, you could add Holden, Vauxhall, Opel, Suzuki, Isuzu, Daewoo and possibly Subaru if you count GM's stock in Fuji Heavy Industries. Or Fiat in which GM has 10% ownership that has an option for a full buyout.
 
#16 ·
VGT said:
Well, if they really wanted to break it down in numbers, they should compare Toyota and GM, not Toyota and Chevy. Toyota is the parent and GM is the parent.
My thoughts exactly. I'm guessing it is up to the individual companies how they report the numbers, correct?

As for the idea of renaming the current monte carlo, impala monte carlo ... why not just name it impala? I've seen many people ask for that anyway....

*shrugs*


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#17 ·
one of toyotas cars more closely competes with buick as well as chevrolet. for example regal,century,impala vs. avalon. if some buicks were also thrown in with the mix, toyota wouldnt look nearly as competitive.

its all speculative. its truely is a matter of tweeking the information and presenting it in a certain way to appear like your the leader with a certain type of product. like when DCX claims "only mini-van with stow and go". well the term "stow and go" is specific to DCX and can't be used by anyone else, so thats just like saying mcdonalds is the only chain offering a the big mac.
 
#18 ·
AdmiralViscen said:
I don't see how Chevy Cars are anywhere near Toyota in the first place. Camry and Corolla both blow away Impala and Cavalier (this is 2004, remember), and the Malibu isn't even in the top 10.
dont forget that theres the monte carlos as well as malibu all figured into the totals. and remember they said calander year so chevy have overlapping malibus because wasn't the new 05 malibu sold late in 04? aveo was also sold in 04. sure someone would correct me if im wrong,but isn't this more like car comparison for chevy and toyota in 04? dont think cobalts were available yet.

chevy cars
impala
malibu (new 05 model)
malibu classic
malibu maxx
monte carlo
cavaliar
aveo

toyota cars
avalon
camry and camry solara
corolla
celica
echo
matrix
mr2 spyder
prius
 
#19 ·
Many of my friends and family are in marketing, and this is common practise. If Toyota pulls the data for the past 8 weeks and they are the leader for that time period and GM pulls the data for the past 12 week and they are the leader for that time period then they can both say in thier commercial they are the sales leader. look at the bottom of the screen, it will usually say what the time period is and I'm sure the time periods are different since they both get the same data.
 
#20 · (Edited)
IMPALAon20s said:
dont forget that theres the monte carlos as well as malibu all figured into the totals. and remember they said calander year so chevy have overlapping malibus because wasn't the new 05 malibu sold late in 04? aveo was also sold in 04. sure someone would correct me if im wrong,but isn't this more like car comparison for chevy and toyota in 04? dont think cobalts were available yet.

chevy cars
impala
malibu (new 05 model)
malibu classic
malibu maxx
monte carlo
cavaliar
aveo

toyota cars
avalon
camry and camry solara
corolla
celica
echo
matrix
mr2 spyder
prius

Yea, I included the Malibu, and I didn't mention the Cobalt. The Monte Carlo doesn't sell enough to make up for the differences I listed up above.

Every Toyota car outsells its Chevy counterpart except for the Echo, which is beaten in sales by the Aveo. Toyota also has the Celica, Spyder, Matrix, and Prius, segments that Chevy doesn't even compete in.

How did Chevy sell more cars than Toyota last year?

Edit: Oh, and the Monte Carlo outsells the Solara.
 
#21 ·
AdmiralViscen said:
Yea, I included the Malibu, and I didn't mention the Cobalt. The Monte Carlo doesn't sell enough to make up for the differences I listed up above.

Every Toyota car outsells its Chevy counterpart except for the Echo, which is beaten in sales by the Aveo. Toyota also has the Celica, Spyder, Matrix, and Prius, segments that Chevy doesn't even compete in.

How did Chevy sell more cars than Toyota last year?
You are forgetting about all of the SUV's which are surely being counted in the total.
 
#26 ·
i think if you compare all gm's US sold cars to toyota/scion/luxus US cars. it would probably be the more realistic comparison and gm would come out ahead. and if you throw suv's and trucks into the comparison it gm would have a landslide victory. but doubt any claims done by either company have any major effect on convincing buyers to look at one brand over another.
 
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