Chevy Blazer Review: "How could something so cheap-feeling cost so much?" - Page 9

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Thread: Chevy Blazer Review: "How could something so cheap-feeling cost so much?"

  1. #121
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    Re: Chevy Blazer Review: "How could something so cheap-feeling cost so much?"

    Quote Originally Posted by bballr4567 View Post
    Ram pickup is not an export to US product though.
    Some 2500/3500s are imported from Mexico and arrive through the Port of Tampa. it's not a huge number but it is a number nonetheless. 1300+/- so far this year.. I know a guy
    Last edited by sdotjeezy; 05-16-2019 at 07:35 AM.
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    Re: Chevy Blazer Review: "How could something so cheap-feeling cost so much?"

    Quote Originally Posted by CMiatso DaBang View Post
    Govt sold stake to soon. If I invest it have stock in a company and then sell too soon.. or when it's down.. And I lose money.. Am I entitled to that company paying me from their own pocket? I'm going to be told to go outside and pound sand.

    And nope. Not gonna get into a political debate with U.. I'm sure it's some sort of bait to break some rule so U can ban me again.. So... Like I was told to do... "backing away from the mic and simply say.. U WIN"

    Mexico should be ashamed for duping the American people in to believing all the commercials the Cartel puts out.. forcing us into buying their products
    When was "New GM" Stock valued at a High Enough spot to PAY OFF the Donation?

    Ignition Gate looked after that.

    The General Motors Company (NYSE: GM) IPO launched on November 17, 2010.

    Since then, much has happened with the “new” General Motors.

    Over the past four years, from November 17, 2010, when the “new” GM launched, to now, General Motors Company share prices were down about 2 percent from the IPO price.

    The road in between, has had its ups and downs.

    Related: Morgan Stanley: 'Something's Not Right' At General Motors

    2010 – Starting to Pay Back Uncle Sam

    November 17, 2010, the General Motors Company IPO launch raised $20.1 billion at $33.00 per share.

    The next day the U.S. Treasury recovered $13.5 billion reducing the Treasury’s stake in GM from 61 percent to 33 percent.

    General Motors Company repurchased all preferred stock held by Treasury for $2.1 billion December 15, 2010.

    December 31, 2010, General Motors Company stock closed at $36.86, up 10.5 percent over the IPO.

    2011 – Recall Woes

    October 3, 2011, The New York Times published a blog post saying the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration was about to conclude General Motors should have recalled Saturn Ions in 2010 as part of a large recall covering Chevrolet Cobalts and Pontiac G5s for a steering problem.

    General Motors Company stock closed December 30, 2011, at $20.27, down almost 39 percent from the initial offering.

    2012 – Airbags, Ignitions And A Buyback

    During 2012, General Motors Company identified several crashes and fatalities involving 2004 Saturn Ions. All were attributed to a defect in which airbags failed to deploy.

    Also in 2012, GM engineers noticed that crashes in which the ignition was not in the “run” position only occurred in cars from 2007 and earlier.

    In September, GM reported August sales up 10 percent from 2011. The company said Chevrolet passenger car sales were up 25 percent.

    General Motors repurchased 200 million shares of common stock from the U.S. Treasury on December 21, 2012.

    At the end of the trading day, December 31, General Motors Company stock closed at $28.83. This represented an improvement over 2011 but still a drop of almost 13 percent from the IPO price.

    2013 – Government Exit

    December 9, 2013, saw the completion of the last of four stock sales resulting in the U.S. government having no remaining GM shares.

    By the end of 2013 (December 31), GM had determined the faulty ignition switch was to blame for at least 13 deaths and on that date, GM stock closed at $40.87 representing a more than 19-percent bump since the IPO in 2010.
    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/timel...154651946.html
    One will never know if the Stock would have hit $40.87, if it was Government Owned, and I would have Bailed Way Before the woes of Ignition Gate grabbed hold.

    Regardless, GM DID NOT repay all the Money it Borrowed, Plain and simply

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    Re: Chevy Blazer Review: "How could something so cheap-feeling cost so much?"

    Quote Originally Posted by sdotjeezy View Post
    Not too sure you understood the analogy...the bank (us govt) leant him (gm) $$$. He(gm) repaid the loan from the bank (us govt). So now, he (gm) doesn't owe the bank (us govt) anything, no favors preferential treatment...anything
    U get it.

    And to the rest.. I'm not saying GM shouldn't be grateful that the Bush Admin.. and then Obama admin extended a helping hand.. but it seems that many are not clear on just how things work, let alone how things ended up turning out. Furthermore.. the alternatives would have been catastrophic:

    Alternative 1: GM goes to another country for loans.. China? Did U really want that?
    Alternative 2: GM folds. Leaving over 2-4 million people jobless with 6 months of its closure.. because we all forget the collateral damage..
    Stealing from my old DaBangBang profile:

    It has to occur to some one, some where that GM has been a welfare company for far too long. They employee way to many Americans who don't appreciate their employment status. All of them do not even support the company with a simply thing such as having an all GM new car driveway (not including hobbie classic cars from other manufacturers.) Imagine a situation where employees at Lordstown or Detroit-Ham actually actively recommended a Cruze, Volt, CT6, Lacrosse, Impala to their family and friends. How about the community and city of Detroit do the same? Why? Because supporting your plant meant supporting jobs, keeping jobs. Hypothetically John, who, along with his dad owns "Gios," the restaurant that serves DH employees daily, rolls up to the restaurant his new Avalon instead of an even Consumer Reports top pick, Impala. One sale lost, now two, now three. Detroit-Ham closes. Six months later, "Gio's" closes. Now John is making his car payments to Toyota Finance using unemployment money he gets fed. He's sour on GM for closing the plant. What if he had of just bought an Impala and spread the word that it is a great car? German employees know this. They support the hell out of their local plants even when their car is a piece of junk VW.
    example of collateral damage in a recent situation

    Alternative 3: Toyota, at the time, as they were probably the only ones who had the cash to do it.. and/or maybe Ghosn and Nissan/Renault (that would have been a $#!+ show considering his current situation) could have bought up broken pieces of General Motors..

    As a long time patriot and lover of this country.. ex AF and extreme taxpayer.. stealing a line from JAYZ:

    "Now these baby ballers, toy rappers
    Callin out my name to bring the boy backwards
    Shooting air-balls at the basket
    What you call money, I pay more in taxes"

    I really wouldn't have wanted any of these scenarios. GM is strong now.. but as a corporation they have to look at certain cost savings measures.. and guess what.. LABOR is the most expensive of all costs in the industry. More than tech.. more than materials.. more than the lights.

    Should GM export vehicles made in Mexico to the US? Well.. I say sure, but even I would rather those vehicles be made here.. my country first. BUT!!! My country.. the UAW.. needs to understand that even when the new trade policy kicks in.. $16hr is still a lot more advantageous than $28hr.. plus benefits. Again.. people want to be mad at GM or ANY maker for building in Mexico.. realize that the reason they are is because of the UNITED AUTO WORKERS and UNIFOR. Toyota can build here.. BMW can too.. but let talk of Unionization start taking real hold.. they'll close that plant down.. like they did back in '09-10 at NUMMI. If GM was not so ingrained in the midwest.. I would say they should have moved to the southern half of the United Sates. But again.. those UNIONS and their PROTESTS.


    Since emerging from Bankruptcy in 2010 GM has added about 29,000 employees, about 50% are salaried, the other half Hourly. GM currently has 50,000 salaried employees, and as of Jan '17 GM employed 97,000 total people in the U.S. Chrysler employs 56,900 and Ford employs 85,000. Honestly speaking, GM has too many employees considering their market share. In fact they have too many employees even if their market share was 5 points higher. Interesting fact, is that Toyota only has 30,000 US. employees.
    DaBangBang

    "Average Toyota hourly pay ranges from approximately $13.41 per hour for Machine Operator to $22.18 per hour for Production Associate." Non-Unioned and Happy

    "The average General Motors salary ranges from approximately $37,844 per year for Technical Support Specialist to $118,601 per year for Senior Systems Analyst. Average General Motors hourly pay ranges from approximately $12.24 per hour for Customer Service Representative to $41.50 per hour for Product Engineer"UNIONED But still Crying Like Babies
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    Re: Chevy Blazer Review: "How could something so cheap-feeling cost so much?"

    Quote Originally Posted by InCogKneeToe View Post
    When was "New GM" Stock valued at a High Enough spot to PAY OFF the Donation?

    Ignition Gate looked after that.



    One will never know if the Stock would have hit $40.87, if it was Government Owned, and I would have Bailed Way Before the woes of Ignition Gate grabbed hold.

    Regardless, GM DID NOT repay all the Money it Borrowed, Plain and simply
    U really should never ever invest in the stock market. Ever. Your happiness meter will be like a Roller Coaster.

    Instead of a mic Drop..




    and I'm out!!!
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    Re: Chevy Blazer Review: "How could something so cheap-feeling cost so much?"

    Quote Originally Posted by sdotjeezy View Post
    Some 2500/3500s are imported from Mexico and arrive through the Port of Tampa. it's not a huge number but it is a number nonetheless. 1300+/- so far this year.. I know a guy
    Yea, they did that to help with the production switch over. I should have said LD trucks.


    Toyota has far more employees than is listed as well. They use outside companies to staff their plants. GM would be smart to start doing that if they could get out of the UAW.
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    Re: Chevy Blazer Review: "How could something so cheap-feeling cost so much?"

    Quote Originally Posted by CMiatso DaBang View Post
    Prove it. Shown me the actual corporate docs that say that none of those trucks get thru. And what about those Ford products... Jeeps? Why is GM the whipping boy in this argument? And I'm talking Volume vs percentage.
    Where did FCA or Ford shut down plants and specifically move production to another country? It's not just one product either.

    https://www.autonews.com/article/201...-s-from-mexico

    Ohhh, that stings a lil wee bit.



    Yea, let me pull those strings from FCA to give me the corporate documents about production. HAHAHHAHA
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    Re: Chevy Blazer Review: "How could something so cheap-feeling cost so much?"

    Quote Originally Posted by mbukukanyau View Post
    A honda sales man lecturing Chevrolet on interiors, lol, the noise,plastics galore, poor infographics and insert radio here approach, plus, non existant telematics..

    Honda is a joke.. Yeah.. I know they last for ever...
    Didn't they have to redesign the '17 ( i think) Civic in a rush, like 6 months into the new launch because of the horrendous cheap interiors and abhorrent reviews from absolutely all outlets? Well, at least they did something about.

    And no, they don't last forever, not anymore; google the 1.5T they have, exploding ones especially. They leak gas into the oil till they literally explode. Last time I checked on it, quite a while ago, the dealers' answer was to change the oil every 500KM (~310miles) - not sure if they fixed it somehow.
    Mr Honda (@ryannel2003) here can chime in - unless he is like my GM dealer "truck expert" that told me he never heard of the Chevy shake.

  12. #128
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    Re: Chevy Blazer Review: "How could something so cheap-feeling cost so much?"

    Quote Originally Posted by CMiatso DaBang View Post
    Govt sold stake to soon. If I invest it have stock in a company and then sell too soon.. or when it's down.. And I lose money.. Am I entitled to that company paying me from their own pocket? I'm going to be told to go outside and pound sand.

    And nope. Not gonna get into a political debate with U.. I'm sure it's some sort of bait to break some rule so U can ban me again.. So... Like I was told to do... "backing away from the mic and simply say.. U WIN"

    Mexico should be ashamed for duping the American people in to believing all the commercials the Cartel puts out.. forcing us into buying their products
    If you don't want to get into a political debate, don't make political statements, that's all.
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    Re: Chevy Blazer Review: "How could something so cheap-feeling cost so much?"

    Quote Originally Posted by gkr778 View Post
    Those obligations (mainly loan repayment) have been met in full. GM's obligation as a business today is to provide its shareholders an appropriate return on their investment.
    BS - then why it is the taxpayers obligation to save them from failure ?
    You know what happens when the company I work for gets under? We all go home !
    It's not only about the money, it is about common sense. If it happens again, I hope they let them fail. Burn it to the ground and start fresh.
    Time to get rid of those old ideas and methodologies, the products that come out of their gates are crap as of late. I bet you due to "seniority", a lot of the young ideas dont see the light of day because some old fart holds onto his archaic way of thinking while being protected by the union.
    Nepotism and politics are probably at an all time high inside GM and that combined with the "profit driven/cost cutting" mentality will get them back to the gov door asking for another loan.

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    Re: Chevy Blazer Review: "How could something so cheap-feeling cost so much?"

    Had the taxpayer not stepped in to save GM, actually it was to save the UAW, and not altered the BK rules so the shareholders got NOTHING but a screwing, some private equity firm would have picked up GM and fired all the dead wood politicals. Chevy and Cadillac would have definitely survived, leaner meaner, maybe smarter.
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  19. #132
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    Re: Chevy Blazer Review: "How could something so cheap-feeling cost so much?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed753 View Post
    There are many ways to measure it, but are you saying all companies are not good corporate citizens?

    Here is one list of 100, none of the companies you mentioned are on there...............

    https://www.greatplacetowork.com/bes.../100-best/2019





    Right which not having huge swaths of their potential customer base, not hating on them is advantageous and in their "best interest".

    You are the one that thinks it doesn't matter though, right?



    Maybe; I certainly wouldn't price it at the very top of the range, especially if it was full of marginal content.



    That's not what I asked, but there are a lot more things in a person's life than their job; spouses job? family? friends? children/friends/school?

    Get a job at Burger King, work for minimum wage, assuming you don't screw-up; you'll have a "job for life"........



    Yup; and as soon as we "fix" Mexico we can start working on Venezuela; hear they need a little help.
    I didn't say all corporations were bad or good (I live in a shades of grey world, not black and white), my point being they act in their best interests. It's almost always great to be an employee in a company that is doing well, and I bet if I dug into the list you posted, I'd find that 1) none of these companies have been "attacked" by an activist investor and forced them to give up all the perks and niceties 2) none have emerged from bankruptcy recently 3) Most have had stable and strong results for a long time. But if any of these companies start doing poorly, all those perks, happy meetings, etc. start drying up and all of a sudden they fall off of the "great places to work" list.

    The rich & companies have been shedding jobs, moving or shutting down manufacturing bases and changing with the times for 1,000's years (there are examples before Roman times). These changes have forced people to move, lose jobs and decimated entire economies. GM is doing what corporations have always done, my take is that you think GM is doing something no other company has done. Do I think it is distasteful that people lose their jobs or forced into touch decisions? Yes I do. I also think it is part of life. Guaranteed jobs are not a given, only death is a given.

    GM recently declared bankruptcy, as a result they are hyper-focused on results as they should be. Not to long ago GM had an activist investor meddling, same thing happened to my company - those activist investors do bad thinks to a company culture.

    And the other point is, most people don't care. Few people look or care if a car is built in Mexico, they don't care that their iPhone is built in Asia; I argued with one person who thought Honda is an American company. People don't care, and they'll even make up things to feel good. Yes, a small amount will care, but a majority don't. The other point is people might care and will talk a lot of trash about manufacturing in America, but when it comes down to their own wallet they buy that Asian made TV to save a couple of bucks vs. an American made one, but they will think everyone else should buy American (and I use TV's as an example as that American industry was destroyed 50 years ago.

    So a huge swath of GM's customer base is leaving? I hadn't seen that. If you mean a huge swath of potential customers wont look at GM, I agree. But these same people wont look at a Ford or Chrysler either, mostly because the 1980's taught them domestic makes have bad quality. These people drive Japanese, Korean and Euro cars, they don't care where it is made.

    Yes, by all appearances GM F'ed up with the pricing. They gave it a shot and are adjusting. They have financial targets, same as any company and they goofed. Plus, GM is clearly relying on rebates to give the illusion of a deal, so is it a surprise they priced it high? They just waited to long to start throwing on the rebates. It's just a different pricing model than you like, you want to see the best possible price from the get-go.

    And yes, I do understand that there are other considerations to moving. You have to leave your elderly parents, or your kids are in school and they will have to leave their friends, etc.. But if faced with the choice of moving or losing my house and my ability to feed my kids, then I have to move. How are you going to care for your elderly parents if you have no money?

    I think what ultimately bothers me is the premise that these jobs should be guaranteed for life. First, based on what I've seen since the 1980's, if I worked at a GM plant I minimally would be banking a lot of money for the eventuality that I'd lose my job. And were I in a depressed area (meaning if the GM plant goes out of business I have no other work options) I'd be looking to relocate to ensure my ability to put food on the table. I can't imagine anyone working at a GM plant and not seeing the writing on the wall.

    I love the idea of guaranteed jobs, don't the communists offer the illusion of that?

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    Re: Chevy Blazer Review: "How could something so cheap-feeling cost so much?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Z284ever View Post
    Had the taxpayer not stepped in to save GM, actually it was to save the UAW, and not altered the BK rules so the shareholders got NOTHING but a screwing, some private equity firm would have picked up GM and fired all the dead wood politicals. Chevy and Cadillac would have definitely survived, leaner meaner, maybe smarter.
    Not only that. Ford may have picked up Ohio Plant to meet the New Demands for Escapes/Explorers. Toyota could have picked up Arlington, to handle the New Demands for Corollas, and Camry's, and so on.

    The pieces of Old GM, had a Value, and Too Big to Fail, didn't mean that Demand was going to disappear, it would just move elsewhere.

    And of speaking of "Playing the Market" I am very grateful that I didn't have any investment in "Old GM" but Mary, seems to be doing Great with her New GM stocks.
    Last edited by InCogKneeToe; 05-16-2019 at 09:51 AM.

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    Re: Chevy Blazer Review: "How could something so cheap-feeling cost so much?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Z284ever View Post
    Had the taxpayer not stepped in to save GM, actually it was to save the UAW, and not altered the BK rules so the shareholders got NOTHING but a screwing, some private equity firm would have picked up GM and fired all the dead wood politicals. Chevy and Cadillac would have definitely survived, leaner meaner, maybe smarter.
    This is one of the few enlightened clear explanations of what happened in the Gov't bailout of GM. Thank you Z284ever! It was all about saving the UAW. If GM had been allowed to go through a real bankruptcy, all the assets like plants, equipment, designs and trademarks etc. would have been sold. The assets would have been used to produce vehicles and workers would have been hired but there would be no UAW albatross around the necks of the new entities.

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    Re: Chevy Blazer Review: "How could something so cheap-feeling cost so much?"

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    So a huge swath of GM's customer base is leaving? I hadn't seen that. If you mean a huge swath of potential customers wont look at GM, I agree. But these same people wont look at a Ford or Chrysler either, mostly because the 1980's taught them domestic makes have bad quality. These people drive Japanese, Korean and Euro cars, they don't care where it is made.
    Wasn't GM down the most in the 1Q of all makers? Seems like they have a huge swath of customers leaving judging by the results.
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