CT6: the Good, the Bad and the Ugly... - Page 4

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Thread: CT6: the Good, the Bad and the Ugly...

  1. #46
    Chevrolet VOLT member12's Avatar
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    Re: CT6: the Good, the Bad and the Ugly...

    Quote Originally Posted by AG3* View Post
    Then again, Mercedes still sold 1,212 units of its S-class in January 2017, way more than the CT6's 634 units.
    When will Cadillac dominate luxury car sales (by a wide margin) in its home court.
    Then again, January was an unusually bad month for the CT6. Looking at one single month would not be getting the whole picture. Cadillac sold over 1,200 CT6's per month in August, September, October, November, and December of 2016. 750-800 units would be competitive for that market.

    In fact, Cadillac sold over 1300 units for September and October, which is very impressive for that segment especially for a new model. Mercedes S-class is an established name with multiple body styles, they sold about 1400-1500 units per month.

    The CT6 is a bright spot in the Cadillac sedan lineup right now.
    Last edited by member12; 02-16-2017 at 12:08 PM.

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  3. #47
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    Re: CT6: the Good, the Bad and the Ugly...

    Quote Originally Posted by sfbreh View Post
    Except that's a fantasy segment, and like being hailed for the economy not collapsing while maintaining zero growth and doubling the debt, it's not so much of an accomplishment to more more product than your claimed "competitors" when you're selling a product at a fraction of the price.

    When there's a $55,000 version of the XJ, 7, or LS, let me know.
    It also outsold the cheaper XF between September-December of last year, and approached the sales numbers of the cheaper Lexus GS for several months as well.

    The CT6 is definitely not a failure. The current generation CTS and aging ATS are the Cadillac sedans that are not competing well in their segment. The CT6 is actually doing pretty well.
    Last edited by member12; 02-16-2017 at 12:09 PM.

  4. #48
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    Re: CT6: the Good, the Bad and the Ugly...

    Quote Originally Posted by AG3* View Post

    January 2017 sales:
    Buick Lacrosse = 1307
    Lincoln Continental = 1167
    Cadillac CT6 = 634
    Cadillac CTS = 691
    The "CT6 is a failure" narrative falls short if we add December, November, October, and September 2016 sales numbers

    From December 2016:

    Large luxury sedans:

    Buick LaCrosse = 2826
    Lincoln Continental = 1845
    Lexus ES = 6239
    Toyota Avalon = 5051
    Acura RLX = 192
    Chrysler 300 = 3584
    Lincoln MKS = 215

    Mid sized sports-luxury sedans

    Cadillac CTS = 1697
    Lexus GS = 1325
    Volvo S90 = 1127
    Jaguar XF = 486
    Genesis (all models) = 1733
    Audi A6 = 2016

    Full sized sports luxury sedans:

    Cadillac CT6= 1293
    BMW 7 Series = 1313
    Jaguar XJ = 436
    Audi A8 = 501
    Porsche Panamera = 36
    Lexus LS = 609
    Infiniti Q70 = 580
    Mercedes CLS = 0
    Mercedes S (all variants) = 1494

    ____________________________

    From November 2016

    Large Luxury Sedans:

    Buick LaCrosse = 2427
    Lincoln Continental = 1419
    Lexus ES = 4097
    Toyota Avalon = 4326
    Acura RLX = 140
    Chrysler 300 = 2566
    Lincoln MKS = 89

    Midsized sports-luxury sedans:

    Cadillac CTS = 1042
    Lexus GS = 1201
    Volvo S90 = 670
    Jaguar XF = 361
    Genesis (all models) = 1306
    Audi A6 = 1532

    Full Sized Sports Luxury sedans:

    Cadillac CT6 = 1169
    BMW 7 series = 1233
    Audi A8 = 343
    Porsche Panamera = 731
    Lexus LS = 440
    Infiniti Q70 = 346
    Mercedes CLS = 0
    Mercedes S (all variants) = 1475

    ___________________________

    From October 2016

    Large Luxury Sedans:

    Buick LaCrosse = 2500
    Lincoln Continental = 1222
    Lexus ES = 4190
    Toyota Avalon = 3674
    Acura RLX = 93
    Chrysler 300 = 3051
    Lincoln MKS = 325

    Midsized sports-luxury sedans:

    Cadillac CTS = 1024

    Lexus GS = 1388
    Volvo S90 = 351
    Jaguar XF = 310
    Genesis (all vehicles) = 1201
    Audi A6 = 1429

    Full Sized Sports Luxury sedans:

    Cadillac CT6 = 1316
    BMW 7 series = 1133
    Audi A8 = 354
    Porsche Panamera = 295
    Lexus LS = 352
    Infiniti Q70 = 451
    Mercedes CLS = 203
    Mercedes S (all variants)= 2420

    ____________________________

    From September 2016

    Large Luxury Sedans:

    Buick LaCrosse = 3626

    Lincoln Continental = 775
    Lexus ES = 4543
    Toyota Avalon = 3844
    Acura RLX = 102
    Chrysler 300 = 5459
    Lincoln MKS = 457

    Midsized sports-luxury sedans:

    Cadillac CTS = 1503
    Lexus GS = 1592
    Volvo S90 = 147
    Jaguar XF = 415
    Genesis (all models) = 1201
    Audi A6 = 1599

    Full Sized Sports Luxury sedans:

    Cadillac CT6 = 1343
    BMW 7 series = 1201
    Audi A8 = 335
    Porsche Panamera = 356
    Lexus LS = 345
    Infiniti Q70 = 402
    Mercedes CLS = 0
    Mercedes S (all variants) = 1440
    Last edited by member12; 02-16-2017 at 03:04 PM.

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  7. #49
    R2-D2 Astromech Droid sfbreh's Avatar
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    Re: CT6: the Good, the Bad and the Ugly...

    Quote Originally Posted by member12 View Post
    It also outsold the cheaper XF between September-December of last year, and approached the sales numbers of the cheaper Lexus GS for several months as well.

    The CT6 is definitely not a failure. The current generation CTS and aging ATS are the Cadillac sedans that are not competing well in their segment. The CT6 is actually doing pretty well.
    I wouldn't call it a failure at all, but it's not doing as well as I would hope in China (hopefully the plugin remedies that) and it's simply being dishonest to compare its success to cars that simply don't compete with it directly.

    If you compare it to the S, you must also compare it to the E, and if you compare it to the E, you must also compare it to the CLS. It exists and competes somewhere between all three, and competes directly with none.

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    Re: CT6: the Good, the Bad and the Ugly...

    Quote Originally Posted by sfbreh View Post
    I wouldn't call it a failure at all, but it's not doing as well as I would hope in China (hopefully the plugin remedies that) and it's simply being dishonest to compare its success to cars that simply don't compete with it directly.

    If you compare it to the S, you must also compare it to the E, and if you compare it to the E, you must also compare it to the CLS. It exists and competes somewhere between all three, and competes directly with none.
    I've provided months of sales data that proves that the CT6 is actually a pretty big hit for the class in which in competes. I've included large luxury sedans, mid sized sport luxury sedans, and large sport luxury sedans as well for perspective.

    Cadillac's problem with sedans is with the ATS. It's not with the CT6. The CT6 is consistently among the top 2-3 in its class in sales while the ATS is consistently second to last.


    Cadillac ATS Sales (All variants)

    September - 1770
    October - 1593
    November - 1490
    December - 2292

    Jaguar XE Sales

    September - 829
    October - 941
    November - 951
    December - 1162

    Lexus IS Sales

    September - 2678
    October - 2523
    November - 3571
    December - 4432

    Acura TLX Sales

    September - 2908
    October - 2714
    November - 2281
    December - 3621


    Audi A4 Sales

    September - 2482
    October - 3156
    November - 2719
    December - 3172

    BMW 3 series (All Variants)

    September - 7432
    October - 5215
    November - 5411
    December - 6740

    Mercedes C Class

    September - 6600
    October - 6227
    November - 7261
    December - 7345

    Infiniti Q50 Sales

    September - 4359
    October - 3689
    November - 3361
    December - 5794




    ^^ That is why the ATS needs a refresh. It's been on sale in its current form for 5 years. Its replacement needs to find more interior room and more updated styling. There are clearly a lot of sales being left for competitors in this segment. The target should be a 3,500 unit/month sales rate, and the current model is falling short of that number by 50%.
    Last edited by member12; 02-16-2017 at 03:37 PM.

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  11. #51
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    Re: CT6: the Good, the Bad and the Ugly...

    I was just chatting with the Cadillac Canada boss and he told me the Escala face is coming SOON.

    We were actually standing in front of the Escala and he said to look for thw new grills to feature the same pattern as the concept's, and horizontal, recessed LED headlamps...

    Didn't get much out of him about the interior...
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  13. #52
    R2-D2 Astromech Droid sfbreh's Avatar
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    Re: CT6: the Good, the Bad and the Ugly...

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Accardi View Post
    I was just chatting with the Cadillac Canada boss and he told me the Escala face is coming SOON.

    We were actually standing in front of the Escala and he said to look for thw new grills to feature the same pattern as the concept's, and horizontal, recessed LED headlamps...

    Didn't get much out of him about the interior...
    That's either a good thing of a bad thing.

    New grille is worth ****all nothing, it's the bodywork that matters. They need better BODYWORK.

    You can see the new face on the XT3 spyshots, can't tell anything about the body sculpting.

    The BODY and the interior cannot be screwed up on the next generation cars.

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  15. #53
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    Re: CT6: the Good, the Bad and the Ugly...

    Quote Originally Posted by sfbreh View Post
    That's either a good thing of a bad thing.

    New grille is worth ****all nothing, it's the bodywork that matters. They need better BODYWORK.

    You can see the new face on the XT3 spyshots, can't tell anything about the body sculpting.

    The BODY and the interior cannot be screwed up on the next generation cars.
    Je suis d'accord avec vous monsieur.
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    R2-D2 Astromech Droid sfbreh's Avatar
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    Re: CT6: the Good, the Bad and the Ugly...

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Accardi View Post
    Je suis d'accord avec vous monsieur.
    Easy, Trudeau.

  17. #55
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    Re: CT6: the Good, the Bad and the Ugly...

    Quote Originally Posted by sfbreh View Post
    Easy, Trudeau.
    He wishes. I have better hair...

    BTW, just an FYI:


    Melody E. Lee
    Melody Lee is nearly unique among her cohorts at Cadillac: She began as an outsider, but she also was part of the “new” Cadillac before the new Cadillac was born. So, perhaps more than anybody else on the team, the director of brand marketing appreciates how far the brand has come already.

    Uwe Ellinghaus
    For Uwe Ellinghaus, “Dare Greatly” is a compelling mantra not only for the Cadillac brand he directs but also, in some ways, for his own life.

    http://media.cadillac.com/media/us/e...pany_info.html
    GMI News Editor

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