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Thread: Why So Many Carmakers Use ZF's Eight-Speed Automatic

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    GMI Staff Member Premium Member NoStopN's Avatar
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    Re: Why So Many Carmakers Use ZF's Eight-Speed Automatic

    Quote Originally Posted by Stéphane Dumas View Post
    I guess Nissan could knock at ZF door to replace their CVT.
    I was looking at their website for the Titan the other day & still can't believe that Nissan designed this truck with a 7-speed (presumably in-house). I might understand using the Aisin 6-speed for torque capacity, but the ZF 8-speed has shown to be able to handle the torque rating that the Cummins 5.0 carries.

    Otherwise, I must say that I'm impressed at the capability of the ZF trans for my Ram. It's quite a shock to someone's system who had come from an archaic 4-speed transmission vehicle. I haven't driven either Ford or GM truck with their 8- or 10-speed transmissions, but they had their work cut out for them after Ram started using the ZF unit.
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    Re: Why So Many Carmakers Use ZF's Eight-Speed Automatic

    The ZF 9 speed helped kill the Dodge Dart and Chrysler 200.
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    Re: Why So Many Carmakers Use ZF's Eight-Speed Automatic

    Quote Originally Posted by Evo69 View Post
    The ZF 9 speed helped kill the Dodge Dart and Chrysler 200.
    shhhh are you trying to ruin the circle jerk here?

    With that said and having not driven a ZF 8 speed transmission vehicle I would say that the 10 speed GM/Ford unit is comparable to it.

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    Re: Why So Many Carmakers Use ZF's Eight-Speed Automatic

    Quote Originally Posted by roadkillz View Post
    shhhh are you trying to ruin the circle jerk here?

    With that said and having not driven a ZF 8 speed transmission vehicle I would say that the 10 speed GM/Ford unit is comparable to it.
    Well, this was was good enough for (excluding locals): Rolls-Royce Ghost,[18] Rolls-Royce Wraith (2013), Bentley Mulsanne, Bentley Continental GT, Bentley Bentayga, Audi RS 6, Audi SQ7, Rolls-Royce Ghost Black Badge, Rolls-Royce Wraith Black Badge, Rolls-Royce Dawn Black Badge, Aston Martin DBS Superleggera, BMW 7 Series (F01), BMW X5 50i (E70), BMW 5 series (F10/11), BMW 3 Series (F30) 335d, Jaguar F-Type (V6 and V8), Rolls-Royce Phantom, Maserati Quattroporte (2013–), Aston Martin Vanquish (2015), Aston Martin Rapide S (2015),[14] Alpina B3 (F30/31), Alpina B4 (F32/33), Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio, Alfa Romeo Stelvio Quadrifoglio, Aston Martin DB11, Aston Martin V8 Vantage (2019), Alpina B5 (G30/31), BMW 5 series (G30/G31/F90), BMW X5 M (F85), BMW X6 M (F86), BMW 7 Series (G11/12),[15] BMW X5 (F15)[16] BMW X3 30D (G01).

    Ford and GM can only dream about such success and with this proven track, imagine how much cheaper it can be to just licence this instead spending years in development (along with associated costs) and then offer it only on the top trims. FCA bet the farm on it and it won.
    Last edited by canadian.bacon; 05-23-2019 at 08:12 AM.

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    Re: Why So Many Carmakers Use ZF's Eight-Speed Automatic

    Quote Originally Posted by sydtron View Post
    ZF does great at longitudinal automatics, but after their 9-speed transverse (ZF 9HP) problems I sure wouldn't want them to tackle a CVT.
    I know there were some mechanical problems with the intial run, but wasn't a lot of it "tuning" that the automakers themselves had programmed?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoStopN View Post
    I was looking at their website for the Titan the other day & still can't believe that Nissan designed this truck with a 7-speed (presumably in-house). I might understand using the Aisin 6-speed for torque capacity, but the ZF 8-speed has shown to be able to handle the torque rating that the Cummins 5.0 carries
    It's the Mercedes 7-speed. They use it in the Armada/QX80 as well. It's not as good as the ZF 8-speed, but its pretty stout.

    Quote Originally Posted by roadkillz View Post
    With that said and having not driven a ZF 8 speed transmission vehicle I would say that the 10 speed GM/Ford unit is comparable to it.
    It's not. It has potential, but its not there yet.
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    Re: Why So Many Carmakers Use ZF's Eight-Speed Automatic

    Quote Originally Posted by Evo69 View Post
    The ZF 9 speed helped kill the Dodge Dart and Chrysler 200.
    The 6A in the 200s also had hinky issues. Mine was very jerky in the lower gears, they reflashed it three or four times and that helped but you could still tell it wasn't all there.

    KIA does all their transmissions internally. I wish I had the ZF equivalent in my Soul. The corporate 6A is OK but compared to the ZF 8A, it's generations back.
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    Re: Why So Many Carmakers Use ZF's Eight-Speed Automatic

    Quote Originally Posted by Evo69 View Post
    The ZF 9 speed helped kill the Dodge Dart and Chrysler 200.
    Dodge Dart (PF) never offered ZF 9HP during its lifecycle. The only torque converter automatic available on that car was the Hyundai Powertech/Transys 6F24.

    FCA continues to use the ZF 9HP in the current generation Cherokee, Compass, Renegade, Doblò/ProMaster City, Pacifica, 500X, and Toro.
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    Re: Why So Many Carmakers Use ZF's Eight-Speed Automatic

    Quote Originally Posted by Neanderthal View Post
    Why? Because it's a damn good trannie. I've had two in my Mopars, both linked to the Pentastar. Smooth, seamless, kick down quickly, upshift almost imperceptibly. Someone did their job.
    Quote Originally Posted by gkr778 View Post

    ZF 8HP is the best torque converter automatic transmission ever made for passenger cars and light trucks. No one else has been able to match its combination of smoothness, high performance, and wide range of applications.
    Quote Originally Posted by richmond2000 View Post
    I have one in my RAM and it is near as perfect as it can be

    I can NOT tell what gear it is in it is so smooth it will downshift lightning quick when "poked" MUCH better than the LAST few GM electronic trannies I have owned
    Quote Originally Posted by canadian.bacon View Post
    I had one in my Ram too, smooth as silk. Always keeps the engine in the most efficient powerband, quick and quiet.
    This is one of the things that keeps me looking back at getting another Ram, compared to the Chevy 6 speed. All in the low trims.
    Quote Originally Posted by big swede View Post
    Totally agree. It's also most likely a big reason my Challenger GT is averaging 5mpg better than my wife's Camaro despite the GT being driven much harder.
    Quote Originally Posted by fastrehotrods View Post
    Guess I'll add to the mix with my Ram 8 speed being flawless. Never once had an issue or complaint with it in daily use or towing, even with jumping up to 35's.
    Quote Originally Posted by ryannel2003 View Post
    I absolutely love the ZF in my V6 Charger. When the transmission kicks down you get a smooth surge and power and it holds the gears in the right part of the power band at all times. Combine that with the Pentastar and it's easy to see why the combo works so well.
    Reading all of this makes me even more mad that the GM 8 speed in my CTS is absolute junk.

    My car feels like it's about to blow up from 30-55 MPH. Fortunately, there's a TSB out for it, but still, it's definitely unsettling for a $60,000+ sedan, especially when there's an excellent ZF 8 speed on the market.
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    Re: Why So Many Carmakers Use ZF's Eight-Speed Automatic

    I wonder how much the GM units it is GM programming for that EXTRA 1 MPG
    the 10 speed in the F150 is a VERY good transmission

    FCA may USE ZF's OWN programming and NOT making their OWN and ZF also selling to RR and BMW ETC would spend a LOT of time "perfecting" the driving dynamics OVER the MAX fuel economy

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    GMI Staff Member Premium Member NoStopN's Avatar
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    Re: Why So Many Carmakers Use ZF's Eight-Speed Automatic

    Quote Originally Posted by CJH View Post
    It's the Mercedes 7-speed. They use it in the Armada/QX80 as well. It's not as good as the ZF 8-speed, but its pretty stout.
    I hadn't read that info anywhere. But, it also helps support my original statement about using it & the Aisin for the Cummins instead of just the one ZF transmission for both models. Maybe they got some killer deals on buying them instead of the ZF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Envoy4Life View Post
    Reading all of this makes me even more mad that the GM 8 speed in my CTS is absolute junk.

    My car feels like it's about to blow up from 30-55 MPH. Fortunately, there's a TSB out for it, but still, it's definitely unsettling for a $60,000+ sedan, especially when there's an excellent ZF 8 speed on the market.
    Time for a 300 Pentastar? Probably faster with equal or better FE?

    Quote Originally Posted by richmond2000 View Post
    FCA may USE ZF's OWN programming and NOT making their OWN and ZF also selling to RR and BMW ETC would spend a LOT of time "perfecting" the driving dynamics OVER the MAX fuel economy
    Personally, I can't sneeze at a full size, crew cab, 5000+ lb. truck that can pull 17-18 MPG like clockwork. Even with a few prods of the throttle in each tank, I get the same reliable FE every time. I really can't sneeze at a truck like this that gets better FE than a 1000 lb. lighter, regular cab truck with a 4-speed auto. The great driving dynamics are a well enjoyed bonus.
    Last edited by NoStopN; 05-23-2019 at 03:56 PM.
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    Re: Why So Many Carmakers Use ZF's Eight-Speed Automatic

    Quote Originally Posted by Envoy4Life View Post
    Reading all of this makes me even more mad that the GM 8 speed in my CTS is absolute junk.

    My car feels like it's about to blow up from 30-55 MPH. Fortunately, there's a TSB out for it, but still, it's definitely unsettling for a $60,000+ sedan, especially when there's an excellent ZF 8 speed on the market.
    Going shopping? Class action lawsuit? NHTSA Recall?

    Have you contacted GM Case Management? 1-800-462-8782.

    Quote Originally Posted by gkr778 View Post
    Dodge Dart (PF) never offered ZF 9HP during its lifecycle. The only torque converter automatic available on that car was the Hyundai Powertech/Transys 6F24.

    FCA continues to use the ZF 9HP in the current generation Cherokee, Compass, Renegade, Doblò/ProMaster City, Pacifica, 500X, and Toro.
    According to Wiki my 200 had the 62TE
    The 62TE is a six-speed derivative of the 41TE first introduced on 2007 Chrysler Sebring models fitted with the 3.5 L EGJ V6. Applications also include the Pacifica crossover (4.0 L), the RT Platform minivans (3.8 L & 4.0 L V6; also 2.8 L Diesel for Europe), and the Dodge Journey (3.5 L & 3.6L).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultradrive#62TE

    Quote Originally Posted by richmond2000 View Post
    I wonder how much the GM units it is GM programming for that EXTRA 1 MPG
    the 10 speed in the F150 is a VERY good transmission

    FCA may USE ZF's OWN programming and NOT making their OWN and ZF also selling to RR and BMW ETC would spend a LOT of time "perfecting" the driving dynamics OVER the MAX fuel economy
    I believe Mopar builds their own version under license.
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    Re: Why So Many Carmakers Use ZF's Eight-Speed Automatic

    Quote Originally Posted by Neanderthal View Post
    I believe Mopar builds their own version under license.
    I think so, but considering that they tweak the ZF design, most people still credit ZF. Either way, most people that I have talked to in my life who swore that they would never buy another Mopar product had a story about transmission trouble.
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    Re: Why So Many Carmakers Use ZF's Eight-Speed Automatic

    Quote Originally Posted by NoStopN View Post
    I think so, but considering that they tweak the ZF design, most people still credit ZF. Either way, most people that I have talked to in my life who swore that they would never buy another Mopar product had a story about transmission trouble.
    How far the mighty have fallen. I remember when the old Torqueflite was the cat's meow among the Big Three automatic transmissions. But those original engineers are all probably pushing daisies now.
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