Navistar: VW take-over talks heat up

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Thread: Navistar: VW take-over talks heat up

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    GMI Staff Member Premium Member nadepalma's Avatar
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    Navistar: VW take-over talks heat up

    Report: TRATON-Navistar merger talks heat up
    Acquisition would clear path to North American truck market
    Alan Adler
    Thursday, September 3, 2020
    freightwaves.com

    Seven months after TRATON SE offered $2.9 billion offer to acquire the rest of Navistar International Corp. the on-again, off-again merger talks may be heating up, according to a Bloomberg report.

    TRATON is the truck holding company of German automaker Volkswagen AG. It owns about 16.7% of Navistar, which builds International-brand trucks, school buses, defense vehicles and engines.

    On Jan. 30, TRATON offered $35 a share in cash for the rest of Navistar shares. But it may not be enough. Navistar’s shares rose 5.63% on Thursday, closing at $35.28.

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    GMI Staff Member Premium Member nadepalma's Avatar
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    Re: Navistar: VW take-over talks heat up

    This has been an on-going strategic dance for VW and Navistar.

    Obviously TRATON is get a berth into North America to mimic what Diamler has done with their commercial truck unit in the region (they control Freightliner, Western Star, FUSO, Thomas Built Buses, etc).

    However, since 2015 GM has had an ongoing strategic partnership with Navistar to make Class 4/5 commercial vehicles for Chevy's commercial truck portfolio.

    How this will impact GM's own offerings moving forward has to be coming up at the RenCen on some level.

    This isn't to say that GM couldn't continue to produce these products with VW/TRATON. However, for the long term, it's unlikely that to last indefinitely. And why should it? If you are VW, and you're hoping to spread your own marques (Scania, MAN, etc) into the market, why would you consider producing products for a likely competitor?

    Makes you wonder if GM should reconsider a possible alliance with Isuzu, PACCAR, Volvo Trucks, and/or an Indian manufacturer like Tata or Mahindra.



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    Last edited by nadepalma; 09-10-2020 at 09:21 AM.
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    Re: Navistar: VW take-over talks heat up

    IMHO this make NO difference to GM/Navistar JV as Traton brands do NOT offer ANYTHING in the space for north America and would the DEV cost be worth it?
    secondly why would Volvo / DAF-paccar want to JV with GM? Volvo has Mitsubishi-Fuso for "medium" and could for similar cost develop a "conventional" out of it like Hino has and DAF-Paccar has a full line up of "inhouse" med duty trucks that are WELL respected AND BETTER then the JV trucks in that they USE PACCAR tech and NOT a JV "foreign-to-them" tech platform
    I would like to SEE GM get back in with Isuzu as they DO make large class 7 sized trucks even "conventional" stuff overseas
    BUT in the near future Navistar STILL NEEDS GM JV for the "light medium" duty class

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    Re: Navistar: VW take-over talks heat up

    Quote Originally Posted by richmond2000 View Post
    IMHO this make NO difference to GM/Navistar JV as Traton brands do NOT offer ANYTHING in the space for north America and would the DEV cost be worth it?
    secondly why would Volvo / DAF-paccar want to JV with GM? Volvo has Mitsubishi-Fuso for "medium" and could for similar cost develop a "conventional" out of it like Hino has and DAF-Paccar has a full line up of "inhouse" med duty trucks that are WELL respected AND BETTER then the JV trucks in that they USE PACCAR tech and NOT a JV "foreign-to-them" tech platform
    I would like to SEE GM get back in with Isuzu as they DO make large class 7 sized trucks even "conventional" stuff overseas
    BUT in the near future Navistar STILL NEEDS GM JV for the "light medium" duty class
    I'd like to see GM back with Isuzu as well. On the other hand do GM could invest into inhouse medium-duty trucks like Ford did and have since last year, an F-600 filling a niche between the F-550 and F-650?

    Edit: Btw, Isuzu also did a joint-venture with Hino for bus, https://www.trucknews.com/transporta...%20development. Did they still have that joint-venture?
    Last edited by Stéphane Dumas; 09-10-2020 at 02:06 PM.

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    Re: Navistar: VW take-over talks heat up

    Quote Originally Posted by nadepalma View Post
    This has been an on-going strategic dance for VW and Navistar.

    Obviously TRATON is get a berth into North America to mimic what Diamler has done with their commercial truck unit in the region (they control Freightliner, Western Star, FUSO, Thomas Built Buses, etc).

    However, since 2015 GM has had an ongoing strategic partnership with Navistar to make Class 4/5 commercial vehicles for Chevy's commercial truck portfolio.

    How this will impact GM's own offerings moving forward has to be coming up at the RenCen on some level.

    This isn't to say that GM couldn't continue to produce these products with VW/TRATON. However, for the long term, it's unlikely that to last indefinitely. And why should it? If you are VW, and you're hoping to spread your own marques (Scania, MAN, etc) into the market, why would you consider producing products for a likely competitor?

    Makes you wonder if GM should reconsider a possible alliance with Isuzu, PACCAR, Volvo Trucks, and/or an Indian manufacturer like Tata or Mahindra.



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    GM should just take Nikola Trucks it will build with its(GM) technology and brand them GMC, it’s not a huge leap to build its own from the Nikola Chassis. After all they are doing all the a Engineering for both Navistar powertains in its trucks, electronics and everything for Nikola.
    Last edited by mbukukanyau; 09-10-2020 at 03:15 PM.

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    Re: Navistar: VW take-over talks heat up

    Does Navistar build any DoD vehicles?

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    Re: Navistar: VW take-over talks heat up

    Quote Originally Posted by mbukukanyau View Post
    Does Navistar build any DoD vehicles?
    They build for the military. The unit is Navistar Defense. I'd like to see that spun off and kept under American control

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    Re: Navistar: VW take-over talks heat up

    GM would be better off just building the Medium duty trucks all on their own, they practically do anyway. They seem to be gaining in popularity, the joint deal made sense to me when they did it. However the deal could go sideways with VW controlling IH. Build them on their own and if IH wants to dual brand it after the fact, then so be it.
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    Re: Navistar: VW take-over talks heat up

    Quote Originally Posted by ksss View Post
    GM would be better off just building the Medium duty trucks all on their own, they practically do anyway. They seem to be gaining in popularity, the joint deal made sense to me when they did it. However the deal could go sideways with VW controlling IH. Build them on their own and if IH wants to dual brand it after the fact, then so be it.
    Why did GM see no value in taking over Navistar?

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    Re: Navistar: VW take-over talks heat up

    Quote Originally Posted by nadepalma View Post
    This has been an on-going strategic dance for VW and Navistar.

    Obviously TRATON is get a berth into North America to mimic what Diamler has done with their commercial truck unit in the region (they control Freightliner, Western Star, FUSO, Thomas Built Buses, etc).

    However, since 2015 GM has had an ongoing strategic partnership with Navistar to make Class 4/5 commercial vehicles for Chevy's commercial truck portfolio.

    How this will impact GM's own offerings moving forward has to be coming up at the RenCen on some level.

    This isn't to say that GM couldn't continue to produce these products with VW/TRATON. However, for the long term, it's unlikely that to last indefinitely. And why should it? If you are VW, and you're hoping to spread your own marques (Scania, MAN, etc) into the market, why would you consider producing products for a likely competitor?

    Makes you wonder if GM should reconsider a possible alliance with Isuzu, PACCAR, Volvo Trucks, and/or an Indian manufacturer like Tata or Mahindra.



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    GM could just buy a piece. It would go along well for electrification with Nikola trucks

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    Re: Navistar: VW take-over talks heat up

    Quote Originally Posted by dslay04 View Post
    GM could just buy a piece. It would go along well for electrification with Nikola trucks
    Yup, GM taking a good chunk of Navistar would make it much easier to build the Nikola Semi trucks

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    Re: Navistar: VW take-over talks heat up

    IH has never recovered from the Cooled EGR/SCR fiasco. Prior to that they owned a large portion of medium and heavy truck market (not so much the over the road trucks). They damn near bankrupted themselves, their used trucks from those years have zero value on resale. Quality issues beyond the engine as well (electrical primarily). They have the infrastructure to build trucks, but the name isn't what it used to be unfortunately. I have owned 5 of them. Buying them or a portion of them could have value, depending on the plan in place. It could also be a huge money pit.
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    Re: Navistar: VW take-over talks heat up

    Quote Originally Posted by ksss View Post
    IH has never recovered from the Cooled EGR/SCR fiasco. Prior to that they owned a large portion of medium and heavy truck market (not so much the over the road trucks). They damn near bankrupted themselves, their used trucks from those years have zero value on resale. Quality issues beyond the engine as well (electrical primarily). They have the infrastructure to build trucks, but the name isn't what it used to be unfortunately. I have owned 5 of them. Buying them or a portion of them could have value, depending on the plan in place. It could also be a huge money pit.
    There is value in there somewhere, to bring in engineering know how and solve problems

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    Re: Navistar: VW take-over talks heat up

    Quote Originally Posted by mbukukanyau View Post
    There is value in there somewhere, to bring in engineering know how and solve problems
    They certainly have manufacturing capability, perhaps those responsible for the "dark years" are gone, but the stain left after the fact will take a long time to go away. It used to be a name that was well known for durability and toughness in the truck market. The company had real value then, both in the ability to build large numbers of trucks and a quality name in the industry. The Ford/IH 6.0 and 6.4 debacle didn't help either. I read the lawsuit over that issue, a great read if your into such things. I am not convinced that was Navistar's problem, but never the less, something like a Billion dollars spent in warranty and legal fees.
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    Re: Navistar: VW take-over talks heat up

    Quote Originally Posted by ksss View Post
    They certainly have manufacturing capability, perhaps those responsible for the "dark years" are gone, but the stain left after the fact will take a long time to go away. It used to be a name that was well known for durability and toughness in the truck market. The company had real value then, both in the ability to build large numbers of trucks and a quality name in the industry. The Ford/IH 6.0 and 6.4 debacle didn't help either. I read the lawsuit over that issue, a great read if your into such things. I am not convinced that was Navistar's problem, but never the less, something like a Billion dollars spent in warranty and legal fees.
    Yikes, Truckers are a close knight commune, pissing em off is no good if they are your customers

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