Lincoln and Cadillac pin hopes on big crossovers

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Thread: Lincoln and Cadillac pin hopes on big crossovers

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    Lincoln and Cadillac pin hopes on big crossovers

    https://www.autonews.com/sales/linco...big-crossovers


    August 19, 2019
    Michael Martinez

    NAPA, Calif. — The 2020 Lincoln Aviator and Cadillac XT6, large crossovers that launched this summer within a month of each other, are the latest expressions of what their reinvented brands hope to become.

    They also provide a window into the two marques' revivals, showing that Cadillac has a formidable challenger in Detroit again after years of having domestic-leaning luxury buyers largely to itself. Cadillac is still bigger, but Lincoln is on the rise.

    "Lincoln was not effectively competing with Cadillac in most ways a short time ago ... but they've changed everything from the naming strategy to the styling strategy, and I think it's completely worked," Karl Brauer, executive publisher of Autotrader and Kelley Blue Book, told Automotive News. "Now it's a much more interesting battle between the two brands."

    Lincoln crafted the Aviator on a new rear-wheel-drive platform with a plug-in hybrid option. It replaces the MKT as the brand distances itself from the blander designs and confusing names it favored earlier this decade.

    Cadillac, which has been working to rebalance its sedan-heavy lineup since replacing President Johan de Nysschen last year, brought the XT6 to market with a single powertrain. There's no hybrid or plug-in variant, and the Super Cruise hands-free driving system won't be offered until later, even as the brand positions itself as the pinnacle of General Motors' technology and electrification efforts.

    The Aviator costs less, is more powerful and has won widespread praise from critics for its distinctive styling. Reviews of the XT6 have been more mixed.



    The articles makes it seem like JdN wasn't pushing CUVs, when he was (he just ultimately didn't get them in the form he had wanted).


    The XT6 had the benefit of launching first, logging 74 sales in June before the Aviator began reaching dealerships in July.

    Brauer argued that, although the Cadillac crossover likely will win new customers and help the brand, its more conservative design makes it harder to stand out from the fast-growing list of luxury crossovers on the market. "It's evolutionary, in a good direction," Brauer said. "It certainly isn't revolutionary, which is what I would call the Lincoln style."

    Don't think either design language is revolutionary; Lincoln's is just more noticeable since it's more of a departure from what they had done in the past (starting w/ the Conti).

    Maybe what's revolutionary (for a domestic brand) is the care taken w/ regard to the design and quality of the interior.

    Would not at all be surprised if the XT6 ends up outselling the Aviator - but that's w/ more $$ on the hood and at a lower ATP.

    Cadillac has basically beaten Lexus to the punch w/ a proper 3-row CUV (as opposed to the cheap hack job that is the RX-L), so definitely can see it attract the more value-oriented buyer (once aggressive pricing kicks in).

    At the same time, have noticed numerous reviews mention the (loaded versions) of the Telluride and Palisade as being better value alternatives to the XT6.

    Have yet to see that mentioned for an Aviator review (once the Genesis GV80 launches, that'll likely be the one most oft compared to the Aviator).

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    Re: Lincoln and Cadillac pin hopes on big crossovers

    At the same time, have noticed numerous reviews mention the (loaded versions) of the Telluride and Palisade as being better value alternatives to the XT6.
    I don't think there is a single luxury vehicle out there that is a better value than a well optioned mainstream brand. To me the real question is, is the luxury vehicle compelling enough to get me to pay the extra $$ over the mainstream brand. And that is a personal choice, which will be totally overlooked when this thread deteriorates into a "I don't like the XT6's looks, the Aviator is better", with an unspoken "my opinion is fact".

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    Re: Lincoln and Cadillac pin hopes on big crossovers

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    I don't think there is a single luxury vehicle out there that is a better value than a well optioned mainstream brand. To me the real question is, is the luxury vehicle compelling enough to get me to pay the extra $$ over the mainstream brand. And that is a personal choice, which will be totally overlooked when this thread deteriorates into a "I don't like the XT6's looks, the Aviator is better", with an unspoken "my opinion is fact".
    and right on queue....I can tell you which isn't a compelling option to spend $20k over a mainstream offering, but you don't have to guess...but if you want to, I'll give you a hint: It's the one that is being compared to the mainstream crossovers that have more available features than it. Sry, the badge can never be worth the premium if the content ain't there.
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    Re: Lincoln and Cadillac pin hopes on big crossovers

    Quote Originally Posted by sdotjeezy View Post
    and right on queue....I can tell you which isn't a compelling option FOR ME to spend $20k over a mainstream offering, but you don't have to guess...but if you want to, I'll give you a hint: It's the one that is being compared to the mainstream crossovers that have more available features than it. Sry, the badge can never be worth the premium if the content ain't there.
    fixed it for you

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    Re: Lincoln and Cadillac pin hopes on big crossovers

    I'm going to go back to the whole, "is Cadillac worth the badge or isn't it" question. If the Cadillac badge is worth it, shouldn't the CT5 cost more than $37K??? GM hit pricing right on the CT5 in your opinion right? So why is the $55-70k asking price of the XT6, an undersized Traverse Premier, okay with you? I know where I stand. Your expectation that a Cadillac badge which isn't even taken seriously enough by its own parent company can justify a $20k price hike over more equipped mainstream products is laughable.

    To be completely honest here, this has nothing about how the XT6 looks or how the Avi looks, this has everything to do with the total lack of effort and the amount of mailing it in that went into the development of this half baked entry. There are plenty reasons to spend $20k over a mainstream product of similar size for a true luxury product, sadly the XT6 doesn't check any of those boxes.
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    Re: Lincoln and Cadillac pin hopes on big crossovers

    Quote Originally Posted by sdotjeezy View Post
    I'm going to go back to the whole, "is Cadillac worth the badge or isn't it" question. If the Cadillac badge is worth it, shouldn't the CT5 cost more than $37K??? GM hit pricing right on the CT5 in your opinion right? So why is the $55-70k asking price of the XT6, an undersized Traverse Premier, okay with you? I know where I stand. Your expectation that a Cadillac badge which isn't even taken seriously enough by its own parent company can justify a $20k price hike over more equipped mainstream products is laughable.

    To be completely honest here, this has nothing about how the XT6 looks or how the Avi looks, this has everything to do with the total lack of effort and the amount of mailing it in that went into the development of this half baked entry. There are plenty reasons to spend $20k over a mainstream product of similar size for a true luxury product, sadly the XT6 doesn't check any of those boxes.
    I'm not in a market for one, but I'm fine with the pricing because it fits with how the XT5 is priced. After seeing one, were I in the market for such a vehicle I'd be fine with the price. I like Cadillac and their minimalist approach vs. the ornate approach Lincoln is going for. I accept Cadillac for what they are offering, the quality is there and the differentiation from the lesser brands is there. I'd say you prefer the more ornate approach and want Cadillac to go that route and are upset they aren't. I've been happy with how Cadillac presents its interiors, I don't see what is half-arsed about the XT6 other than for some reason everyone expected Cadillac to come out with an all new interior.

    With that said, I do not like Cadillac sharing chassis with the lesser brands, but CUV's seem to get a pass from the market.

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    Re: Lincoln and Cadillac pin hopes on big crossovers

    I don't like the XT-6's looks.

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    Re: Lincoln and Cadillac pin hopes on big crossovers

    Where Cadillac is now would make for a great modern day Oldsmobile.

    Cadillac should have been put to rest peacefully during brand cuts back in the day.
    It's sad to see such an iconic brand known for being the best of the best be mediocre and people have no issue with it at all.
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    Re: Lincoln and Cadillac pin hopes on big crossovers

    It would be neat to see both brands come out with some kind of sleek, sporty crossover.

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    Re: Lincoln and Cadillac pin hopes on big crossovers

    Quote Originally Posted by DequindreToo View Post
    It would be neat to see both brands come out with some kind of sleek, sporty crossover.
    This makes me think of the likes of some Mazda, Lexus models and the new Nissan Murano's styling.
    They also provide a window into the two marques' revivals, showing that Cadillac has a formidable challenger in Detroit again after years of having domestic-leaning luxury buyers largely to itself. Cadillac is still bigger, but Lincoln is on the rise.

    "Lincoln was not effectively competing with Cadillac in most ways a short time ago ... but they've changed everything from the naming strategy to the styling strategy, and I think it's completely worked," Karl Brauer, executive publisher of Autotrader and Kelley Blue Book, told Automotive News. "Now it's a much more interesting battle between the two brands."
    Much to the chagrin of various posters here at GMI.

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    Re: Lincoln and Cadillac pin hopes on big crossovers

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    I'm not in a market for one, but I'm fine with the pricing because it fits with how the XT5 is priced. After seeing one, were I in the market for such a vehicle I'd be fine with the price. I like Cadillac and their minimalist approach vs. the ornate approach Lincoln is going for. I accept Cadillac for what they are offering, the quality is there and the differentiation from the lesser brands is there. I'd say you prefer the more ornate approach and want Cadillac to go that route and are upset they aren't. I've been happy with how Cadillac presents its interiors, I don't see what is half-arsed about the XT6 other than for some reason everyone expected Cadillac to come out with an all new interior.

    With that said, I do not like Cadillac sharing chassis with the lesser brands, but CUV's seem to get a pass from the market.
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    Re: Lincoln and Cadillac pin hopes on big crossovers

    This is not a zero sum game, I doubt that anything Cadillac or Lincoln is doing
    will impact either way on sales of the other, both brands effectively serve niche
    buyers in a huge market so whatever sales they eek out is their business....

    As in most other brands, a certain level of performance and degree of utility is
    required as a minimum standard but above that, it's really questionable as to
    whether over delivering on either adds any appreciable sales or profit.....
    Last edited by jpd80; 08-26-2019 at 01:28 AM.

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    Re: Lincoln and Cadillac pin hopes on big crossovers

    I know several people who would buy a Cadillac. I know 2 other people that own one (one is 48 and one is 44).

    I know no one who would even look at a Lincoln. I know no one that owns a Lincoln.

    Just saying.

    Cadillac should do better with the XT6 though.

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    Re: Lincoln and Cadillac pin hopes on big crossovers

    Quote Originally Posted by kool1 View Post
    I know several people who would buy a Cadillac. I know 2 other people that own one (one is 48 and one is 44).

    I know no one who would even look at a Lincoln. I know no one that owns a Lincoln.

    Just saying.

    Cadillac should do better with the XT6 though.
    That's anecdotal evidence.

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    Re: Lincoln and Cadillac pin hopes on big crossovers

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    I like Cadillac and their minimalist approach
    Escalade? Minimalist?

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