Hydrogen: What Barra has NOT told you about GM's EV plans

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Thread: Hydrogen: What Barra has NOT told you about GM's EV plans

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    Hydrogen: What Barra has NOT told you about GM's EV plans

    The Hydrogen Fuel Cell Secret Behind GM’s Big EV Announcement
    by Tina Casey on Tuesday, Oct 3rd, 2017
    Triple Pundit

    GM sent a ripple across the web on Monday with the attention-grabbing announcement of its “path to zero emissions” plan, which includes an impressive lineup of at least 20 electric vehicles by 2023. To the casual observer, that means a head-on collision with Tesla, but GM adds an interesting twist. Instead of only offering battery-powered EVs, GM will include a healthy dose of EVs that run on hydrogen fuel cells.


    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Pundit
    Instead of only offering battery-powered EVs, GM will include a healthy dose of EVs that run on hydrogen fuel cells.

    That’s a surprise move considering the intensive criticism that hydrogen fuel cell vehicles have endured, so let’s take a look under the hood and see what’s going on.

    GM’s big EV announcement…
    GM’s announcement was pretty thin on details, but it looks like the company is convinced that the all-EV future is immanent. Here’s the explainer from Mark Reuss, General Motors executive vice president of Product Development, Purchasing and Supply Chain:

    General Motors believes in an all-electric future. Although that future won’t happen overnight, GM is committed to driving increased usage and acceptance of electric vehicles through no-compromise solutions that meet our customers’ needs.
    GM is no newcomer to fuel cell technology. The company first introduced an “Electrovan” hydrogen fuel cell demonstration vehicle in 1966. The concept went into the deep freeze for a while but roared back into life in 2013, when GM and Honda announced a fuel cell collaboration. In 2016 GM dropped another strong hint that it was planning on a fuel cell future, and earlier this year GM and Honda announced they would partner in a new $85 million fuel cell plant in Michigan.

    More at link Hither
    CONTINUE TO FULL ARTICLE AT LINK ABOVE




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    Last edited by nadepalma; 01-22-2019 at 09:53 AM. Reason: Reformatted; moved to newsticker

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    Re: What GM's Barrah Has not Told you about her EV plans

    Awesome news if true and they follow through.

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    Re: What GM's Barrah Has not Told you about her EV plans

    They should absolutely do this. Fuel Cells are the next evolution of EV's. Just need a national energy plan to implement it.

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    Re: What GM's Barrah Has not Told you about her EV plans

    Musk was at some point calling it a stupid idea, however, he seems to have changed the tune.https://www.triplepundit.com/2017/03...ell-elon-musk/

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    Re: What GM's Barrah Has not Told you about her EV plans

    Fuel cell infrastructure will start first with trucking.
    I'm pretty convinced that fuel cells are the future for big trucks, not pure EV's.
    Meeting emissions is becoming a faff for diesels.

    Spreading it beyond the interstates will be the trick.
    The obvious advantage of using hydrogen in an EV is that it makes charging speed irrelevant.

    One can still charge the EV at home and use the onboard hydrogen as a range extender.
    It's the natural progression of the Voltec concept.
    But unlike Voltec, the fuel cell isn't required if all you want is a short range EV.
    Last edited by eaton53; 01-21-2019 at 03:14 PM.
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    Re: What GM's Barrah Has not Told you about her EV plans

    It's been all about batteries with very little news about FCs, I almost forgot about them as being seriously considered. I wonder just how serious GM is about them going forward.
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    Cool Re: What GM's Barrah Has not Told you about her EV plans

    I think there is a view issue .

    An electric motor can power wheels ( if you can it EV )

    Now the power for electric motor can come from different sources

    Say i can have

    Generator which runs gas and produces power
    The same can be replaced with a Bigger battery ( full charge recharge from grid )
    Fuel cell battery ( here hydrogen and oxygen reacts and creates electricity and water )

    So The real q is what kind of battery is going to be in use. As hydrogen fuel cell was invented in 1839 (In 1839, the first fuel cell was conceived by Sir William Robert Grove, a Welsh judge, inventor, and physicist. He mixed hydrogen and oxygen in the presence of an electrolyte and produced electricity and water. The invention, which later became known as a fuel cell, didn't produce enough electricity to be useful. ) and some where in 1959 they have a working one ( real demonstrable one ). Till now the fuel cell is considered an expensive as it uses platinum etc as catalyst and still cost control is main issue.

    But if you look on batteries, the progress we made in last 10 years is very high and same research is applied from anything we use (example mobile phones to any thing you name ) .People love to move from a controlled environment (a distributor stores and people buy model ) to a distributed environment where i can fill from anywhere.

    So i see less chance of a hydrogen fuel cell to come up . The primary greenhouse gases in Earth's atmosphere are water vapor, carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxide and ozone. So a water vapor emitting device may also get a less acceptance.
    May be it will be like diesel ( some specific applications like trucks may use )

    I think the next big thing will be Ultra Capacitors with high capacity ( Ultra capacitors as batteries (quick recharge, unlimited cycles ) and some break through in Electric Motors ( like incandescent lamp to LED - Not a lot copper winding but some sort of Magnetic Field Emitting Diode (MFED ) (my own term for now -nothing existing as i know ) ) which will really make requirement of electricity very less ( like 60w to 9w with same power ) ) and truth is mostly GM is going to be out of business in next couple of years. The whole bet is on material sciences advancement and nano technology.
    Last edited by uvikrama; 01-21-2019 at 05:28 PM.

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    Re: What GM's Barrah Has not Told you about her EV plans

    Quote Originally Posted by rand49er View Post
    It's been all about batteries with very little news about FCs, I almost forgot about them as being seriously considered. I wonder just how serious GM is about them going forward.
    Department of energy, and the US Army are funding GM fuel cell industrialization. There is a JV for the first mass production plant with Honda already being built.
    GM has HD hyrotec FC mules running around.

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    Re: What GM's Barrah Has not Told you about her EV plans

    Quote Originally Posted by rand49er View Post
    It's been all about batteries with very little news about FCs, I almost forgot about them as being seriously considered. I wonder just how serious GM is about them going forward.
    I've never equated EV to Fuel Cell; in the sense - "We are going Full EV" Tesla is Full EV, at the same time anti-Fuel Cell.

    Is GM going FC or EV? I'm confused.
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    Re: What GM's Barrah Has not Told you about her EV plans

    Quote Originally Posted by rand49er View Post
    It's been all about batteries with very little news about FCs, I almost forgot about them as being seriously considered. I wonder just how serious GM is about them going forward.
    The Toyota and Hyundai version went on sale recently here in California with stations popping of throughout the state. The cost of hydrogen is still pretty high that’s why Toyota is providing new owners with free fill ups. I’d bet it wouldn’t be hard to build both versions of a model and give the public a choice.
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    Re: What GM's Barrah Has not Told you about her EV plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed753 View Post
    I've never equated EV to Fuel Cell; in the sense - "We are going Full EV" Tesla is Full EV, at the same time anti-Fuel Cell.

    Is GM going FC or EV? I'm confused.

    Your really starting with the same base car with FC not needing regen braking and a plug. That’s a bit of a simple way of putting it.
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    Re: What GM's Barrah Has not Told you about her EV plans

    Quote Originally Posted by mbukukanyau View Post
    Musk was at some point calling it a stupid idea, however, he seems to have changed the tune.https://www.triplepundit.com/2017/03...ell-elon-musk/
    It's a good thing that people can grow and change their opinion. Can you imagine how crappy your/someone's life would be if you or they were stuck having to believe the same thing that you/they believed in when you/they were 16?.

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    Re: What GM's Barrah Has not Told you about her EV plans

    Quote Originally Posted by rand49er View Post
    It's been all about batteries with very little news about FCs, I almost forgot about them as being seriously considered. I wonder just how serious GM is about them going forward.
    Very serious I'd guess. This would change the whole equation of EVs, from a pie-in-the-sky trip to real bankruptcy to the sort of breakthroughs that Toyota engineers made while working on the Pious.

    Home Nanotechnology Nanomaterials February 1, 2018
    New method efficiently generates hydrogen from water
    February 1, 2018, Washington State University
    New method could open path to hydrogen economy
    Washington State University researchers have found a way to more efficiently generate hydrogen from water—an important key to making clean energy more viable.

    Using inexpensive nickel and iron, the researchers developed a very simple, five-minute method to create large amounts of a high-quality catalyst required for the chemical reaction to split water.

    They describe their method in the February issue of the journal Nano Energy.

    Energy conversion and storage is a key to the clean energy economy. Because solar and wind sources produce power only intermittently, there is a critical need for ways to store and save the electricity they create. One of the most promising ideas for storing renewable energy is to use the excess electricity generated from renewables to split water into oxygen and hydrogen. Hydrogen has myriad uses in industry and could be used to power hydrogen fuel-cell cars.

    Industries have not widely used the water splitting process, however, because of the prohibitive cost of the precious metal catalysts that are required—usually platinum or ruthenium. Many of the methods to split water also require too much energy, or the required catalyst materials break down too quickly.

    In their work, the researchers, led by professor Yuehe Lin in the School of Mechanical and Materials Engineering, used two abundantly available and cheap metals to create a porous nanofoam that worked better than most catalysts that currently are used, including those made from the precious metals. The catalyst they created looks like a tiny sponge. With its unique atomic structure and many exposed surfaces throughout the material, the nanofoam can catalyze the important reaction with less energy than other catalysts. The catalyst showed very little loss in activity in a 12-hour stability test.

    "We took a very simple approach that could be used easily in large-scale production," said Shaofang Fu, a WSU Ph.D. student who synthesized the catalyst and did most of the activity testing.

    New method could open path to hydrogen economy
    The WSU researchers collaborated on the project with researchers at Advanced Photon Source at Argonne National Laboratory and Pacific Northwest National Laboratory.

    "The advanced materials characterization facility at the national laboratories provided the deep understanding of the composition and structures of the catalysts," said Junhua Song, another WSU Ph.D. student who worked on the catalyst characterization.

    The researchers are now seeking additional support to scale up their work for large-scale testing.

    "This is just lab-scale testing, but this is very promising," said Lin.

    Explore further: Improved water splitting advances renewable energy conversion

    Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2018-02-method...rogen.html#jCp


    https://phys.org/news/2018-02-method...-hydrogen.html


    Posted: Apr 27, 2018
    A new way to produce hydrogen with nanoparticles
    (Nanowerk News) A team of Renewable Energy experts from the University of Exeter has pioneered a new technique to produce hydrogen from sunlight to create a clean, cheap and widely-available fuel.
    The team developed an innovative method to split water into its constituent parts - hydrogen and oxygen - using sunlight. The hydrogen can then be used as a fuel, with the potential to power everyday items such as homes and vehicles.

    Crucially, hydrogen fuel that can be created through this synthetic photosynthesis method would not only severely reduce carbon emissions, but would also create a virtually limitless energy source.

    The ground-breaking new research centres on the use of a revolutionary photo-electrode - an electrode that absorbs light before initializing electrochemical transformations to extract the hydrogen from water - made from nanoparticles of the elements lanthanum, iron and oxygen.


    The researchers believe this new type of photo-electrode is not only cheap to produce, but can also be recreated on a larger scale for mass and worldwide use.

    The research is published in Scientific Reports ("Unbiased Spontaneous Solar fuel Production using Stable LaFeO3 Photoelectrode").

    Govinder Pawar, lead author on the paper and based at the University of Exeter's Environment and Sustainability Institute on the Penryn Campus in Cornwall said: "With growing economies and population, fossil fuels will not be able to sustain the global energy demand in a "clean" manner as they are being exhausted at an alarming rate.

    "Alternative renewable fuels sources must be found which can sustain the global energy demand. Hydrogen is a promising alternative fuel source capable of replacing fossil fuels as it has a higher energy density than fossil fuels (more than double), zero carbon emissions and the only by-product is water."

    At present, around 85 per cent of the global energy provisions come from the burning of fossil fuels. Therefore the need and desire to find a sustainable, cost-effective renewable fuel source is growing in urgency.
    Perhaps unsurprisingly, the sun is earth's most abundant renewable energy source, with the potential to provide 100,000 terawatts of power each year - meaning one hour's worth of solar energy is equal to an entire year of total energy consumption worldwide.

    https://www.nanowerk.com/nanotechnol...wsid=50065.php
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    Re: What GM's Barrah Has not Told you about her EV plans

    Lugging dead empty batteries weight around in ya testhla is moronic

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    Re: What GM's Barrah Has not Told you about her EV plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Cobaltss_King View Post
    Your really starting with the same base car with FC not needing regen braking and a plug. That’s a bit of a simple way of putting it.
    Right, but then instead of a battery, you need a fuel cell, and "fuel" to run it, which requires a "tank" to store it.............

    Having said that, I am much more optimistic about FC that EV's.
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