GM Talks Electric Pickups, Again

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Thread: GM Talks Electric Pickups, Again

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    GM Talks Electric Pickups, Again

    GM Talks Electric Pickups, Again
    Wards Auto
    Jun 06, 2019



    General Motors President Mark Reuss reiterates plans to bring an electric pickup to market, a move widely considered unthinkable until just recently and one made possible by sooner-than-expected cost parity between battery-powered vehicles and those with traditional internal-combustion engines.

    “We will have a complete electric lineup, including a pickup truck that’s in development,” Reuss tells Wall Street analysts at the UBS Global Industrials and Transportation Conference.

    Reuss’ remarks represent the second admission GM wants to bring an electric pickup to market. GM Chairman and CEO Mary Barra broke the news in April during an earnings call with investors in which she sought to clarify chatter regarding a potential acquisition of electric-truck startup Rivian.

    “This architecture is the canvas on which we will paint a profitable EV program,” Reuss says. “We can build everything on this (platform) from just three drive units: front-wheel drive, rear-wheel drive or e-all-wheel drive.”
    *Full Article at Link

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    Re: GM Talks Electric Pickups, Again

    “This architecture is the canvas on which we will paint a profitable EV program,” Reuss says. “We can build everything on this (platform) from just three drive units: front-wheel drive, rear-wheel drive or e-all-wheel drive.”

    There is that word again................ "profitable"

    So GM makes ~$20K on a current ICE truck, starts selling EV and makes ~$2,000, that isn't a $2,000 profit, that is an $18,000 loss..................

    I also really question the "We can build everything on this (platform)"....... Define "everything".
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    Re: GM Talks Electric Pickups, Again

    Using an old and worn out cliche "Oh Please".

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    Re: GM Talks Electric Pickups, Again

    If they can make some money selling an EV pickup, it's all good.
    Most pickups they sell won't be EVs and they can cut out the credit buying.
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    Re: GM Talks Electric Pickups, Again

    I read this earlier. Makes me wonder how much, if any, of this GM technology went in to the new platform.

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    Re: GM Talks Electric Pickups, Again

    I'm wondering how many vehicles will be built off this platform before it's thrown out and replaced with a new more better platform? 1 maybe 2 vehicles?

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    Re: GM Talks Electric Pickups, Again

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed753 View Post
    “This architecture is the canvas on which we will paint a profitable EV program,” Reuss says. “We can build everything on this (platform) from just three drive units: front-wheel drive, rear-wheel drive or e-all-wheel drive.”

    There is that word again................ "profitable"

    So GM makes ~$20K on a current ICE truck, starts selling EV and makes ~$2,000, that isn't a $2,000 profit, that is an $18,000 loss..................

    I also really question the "We can build everything on this (platform)"....... Define "everything".
    Or, another way to look at it is continue to build $20k profit ICE trucks; while you let someone else make the truck that makes the $2k profit. This will allow them to build a name for themselves and steal your sales. Then the price of batteries go down, they are making more $$ and now you have less sales and most likely less profit per vehicle as your fixed costs have to be spread over your existing sales. Then we will be reading about how GM, yet again, didn't take the lead and someone ate their lunch.

    And, if you let someone else make that electric pickup, isn't that a $20k loss to you as the consumer might have bought your ICE truck? Meaning it was a sale you didn't make. Wasn't your argument for Ford fleet sales that it is better to make that sale and garner a $1 profit vs. no sale and no profit? So better to make a $2,000 profit than nothing at all.

    Plus, don't forget, the cost of ICE is supposed to go up as tighter environmental restrictions take place, so some of that $20k profit might decrease.

    Also, if your EV architecture can be shared across all of your vehicles, now you are making $2k on everything vs. the current situation where almost all of the profits come from pickups and virtually nothing from everything else. So now you can make that Malibu EV and make a profit.

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    Re: GM Talks Electric Pickups, Again

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed753 View Post
    “This architecture is the canvas on which we will paint a profitable EV program,” Reuss says. “We can build everything on this (platform) from just three drive units: front-wheel drive, rear-wheel drive or e-all-wheel drive.”

    There is that word again................ "profitable"

    So GM makes ~$20K on a current ICE truck, starts selling EV and makes ~$2,000, that isn't a $2,000 profit, that is an $18,000 loss..................

    I also really question the "We can build everything on this (platform)"....... Define "everything".
    Good Points, and who is going to buy these things outside of Fleets?

    Real problem with EV's is the "Re-Fuel" time and the inherent lack of range and portability that are sales killers for Pickups and what everyone is going to discover after they are more common is that they will be the worst polluters of any vehicle that has ever been made when all the the environmental impacts are added up.

    The raw materials required to make the batteries, electric motors and controllers are in limited supply and only found in a few areas in the world and they are require devastating to the environment ways of extraction.

    Add in that most global EV's will be COAL POWERED and is why there are 5,000 NEW Coal fired electric generation plants planned for construction.

    EV's will never be "Cleaner" than ICE vehicles or "More Cost Effective" to manufacture or operate and will be hit with "Smog Taxes" to offset the lack of Gas tax money (Already a reality in California).

    A far better solution if CNG powered ICE evolving into CNG/Gasoline powered Fuel Cells that will be more environmentally responsible and take advantage of the fact the U.S. has a Ton of both Natural Gas and Oil to power them.

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    Re: GM Talks Electric Pickups, Again

    Quote Originally Posted by SierraGS View Post
    Good Points, and who is going to buy these things outside of Fleets?

    Real problem with EV's is the "Re-Fuel" time and the inherent lack of range and portability that are sales killers for Pickups and what everyone is going to discover after they are more common is that they will be the worst polluters of any vehicle that has ever been made when all the the environmental impacts are added up.

    The raw materials required to make the batteries, electric motors and controllers are in limited supply and only found in a few areas in the world and they are require devastating to the environment ways of extraction.

    Add in that most global EV's will be COAL POWERED and is why there are 5,000 NEW Coal fired electric generation plants planned for construction.

    EV's will never be "Cleaner" than ICE vehicles or "More Cost Effective" to manufacture or operate and will be hit with "Smog Taxes" to offset the lack of Gas tax money (Already a reality in California).

    A far better solution if CNG powered ICE evolving into CNG/Gasoline powered Fuel Cells that will be more environmentally responsible and take advantage of the fact the U.S. has a Ton of both Natural Gas and Oil to power them.
    With all due respect SierraGS, your thinking is far too realistic, long-term, and pragmatic to be taken seriously by government regulators. Or by GM executives.
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    Re: GM Talks Electric Pickups, Again

    Trying to get stay revelant is a pretty important issue for GM is the it?? A whole lineup of EV in development? So does every one else.

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    Re: GM Talks Electric Pickups, Again

    I think the biggest problem with EVs and especially with Johnny Cab EVs is that they've been pushed and shoved down the driving populace's throats using the same doom-and-gloom agitprop as algore's globaloney warming get-rich-quick scam, the "constitutional" right to kill yo unborn baby, arguing that people should be removed from their positions or sent to prison because you don't like them, that anyone has the right to be an American and go on the public dole, and that windmills--notorious mass murderers of birds including numerous endangered species (who now are not so important, somehow)--and solar panels--also notorious mass murderers of anything flying and of course yooj environmental disruptors when you put down acre upon acre of these things and expect no downside, just "GREEN GREEN GREEN."

    If EVs and hybrids had not been pushed by the enviro-reds such as the EU Bruxxels Weenies and their brethren in the USA, they would evolve in their own time and according to how affordable and desirable they became. Central Planning is almost always a disaster, look at Venezuela or Russia before and after the commie revolution.

    But "electric" and "self-driving" have become be-alls and end-alls, much like the Great God Diversity: meaningless pap which allow the brainwashed masses to feel good about something while actually doing great harm.

    The proof will be in the pudding, for these 'lektrik PUTs and for self-drivers (which actually describes each and every one of us who drives a vehicle all by our selves!). If they eventually become useful, practical, affordable, and most importantly cool (see Tesla for details) with the In Crowd, they're in like Flynn.
    Last edited by Neanderthal; 06-08-2019 at 09:21 AM.
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    Re: GM Talks Electric Pickups, Again

    As I read the arguments against EV's I have some thoughts. Where the raw materials and electricity come from are shared concerns of mine. Do we have the infrastructure in place to generate the presumed increase in electric demand? And where are these raw materials coming from? Mother China who is in the process of weaponizing them vs. Trumps tariff threats?

    But where are 5,000 new coal plants coming from? Certainly not in the USA or the EU, and from what I understand Mother China is curtailing their usage.

    But, on the flip side of the coin, I think some of the arguments are based on today's tech and not allowing for advancements. Everything I've read points to greatly reduced charging times. I've chatted with several people who own Tesla's, they didn't buy them for the green image, they bought them because as soon as they drove one they loved the silent, instant torque. These are the same people who will buy EV pickups, people who are open minded and will give them a shot. Somewhat related - I just bought an electric leaf blower so I can clean my driveway, walkways and deck without needing a shower because my gas powered handheld leaves me smelling like gas/oil mixture. I haven't used my gas blower since, I loooooove the electric one. I don't stink, I can use it at a moments notice (no warmup needed), no shower needed, no hearing protection needed, no trips to the gas station, no maintenance - I just have to remember to have it charged (though it charges quickly). Zero thought to which costs less to run. No brainwashing.

    As far as pollution, which generates more pollution - 200,000 ICE vehicles with individual powerplants or one big electric power plant supplying power to 200,000 EV's? I will presume any new plants in the USA will be natural gas powered, not coal - meaning a cleaner power source. And which has a more sophisticated emission scrubbers - the one massive electric plant or the 200,000 ICE vehicles? I'd assume the power plant, but I don't know.

    And EV's will need to be hit with some kind of tax so that the owners pay for the roads they are using.

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    Re: GM Talks Electric Pickups, Again

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    As I read the arguments against EV's I have some thoughts. Where the raw materials and electricity come from are shared concerns of mine. Do we have the infrastructure in place to generate the presumed increase in electric demand? And where are these raw materials coming from? Mother China who is in the process of weaponizing them vs. Trumps tariff threats?

    But where are 5,000 new coal plants coming from? Certainly not in the USA or the EU, and from what I understand Mother China is curtailing their usage.

    But, on the flip side of the coin, I think some of the arguments are based on today's tech and not allowing for advancements. Everything I've read points to greatly reduced charging times. I've chatted with several people who own Tesla's, they didn't buy them for the green image, they bought them because as soon as they drove one they loved the silent, instant torque. These are the same people who will buy EV pickups, people who are open minded and will give them a shot. Somewhat related - I just bought an electric leaf blower so I can clean my driveway, walkways and deck without needing a shower because my gas powered handheld leaves me smelling like gas/oil mixture. I haven't used my gas blower since, I loooooove the electric one. I don't stink, I can use it at a moments notice (no warmup needed), no shower needed, no hearing protection needed, no trips to the gas station, no maintenance - I just have to remember to have it charged (though it charges quickly). Zero thought to which costs less to run. No brainwashing.

    As far as pollution, which generates more pollution - 200,000 ICE vehicles with individual powerplants or one big electric power plant supplying power to 200,000 EV's? I will presume any new plants in the USA will be natural gas powered, not coal - meaning a cleaner power source. And which has a more sophisticated emission scrubbers - the one massive electric plant or the 200,000 ICE vehicles? I'd assume the power plant, but I don't know.

    And EV's will need to be hit with some kind of tax so that the owners pay for the roads they are using.
    New ICE have become so clean that I've read you can't off yourself via CO now, they're that clean. So to me it's a moot point, ICE emit almost nothing and 90% of that is in the first one minute of running.

    Chynnaaa! is still big on coal and thanks to previous naive, idiotic, or purchased US administrations, they're wealthy and therefore powerful and influential beyond belief, and are essentially buying countries all over the world. They've heavy into the Caribbean, and the Monroe Doctrine is dead.

    They've cut back on coal in Peking but the country still runs boo coo coal plants. The first link below shows a cool adjustable map.

    https://www.carbonbrief.org/mapped-w...l-power-plants

    https://www.npr.org/2019/04/29/71634...al-bet-on-coal

    http://www.coha.org/filling-the-void...bean-presence/

    I too have had lektrik leaf blower and string trimmer for two or maybe three years now. The blower got a lot of use until it started smoking last fall, and it wasn't Cuban cigars either. Bought both at Aldi which is a great store for lots of stuff besides food. We bought a memory foam bed there for 250 bucks. You can pay ten times that elsewhere, if you wish to.

    It's unfortunate that our local Reds don't understand who the real enemy/competition is. Certain people in Worshington make me think of cats fighting, when all of a sudden a pack of wild dogs show up and...well, the end is not good.

    Alex on Autos has good things to say about the 2020 Soul 'lektrik, 220+ mile range and zip to 60 in seven or less. That would work for 95% of my driving, I don't go far often and even so, it's been under 200 miles. Yet the thought of getting stranded is always at the back of my mind, when thinking about something that doesn't have convenient and everywhere places to re-energize.
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    Re: GM Talks Electric Pickups, Again

    Quote Originally Posted by Neanderthal View Post
    New ICE have become so clean that I've read you can't off yourself via CO now, they're that clean. So to me it's a moot point, ICE emit almost nothing and 90% of that is in the first one minute of running.

    Chynnaaa! is still big on coal and thanks to previous naive, idiotic, or purchased US administrations, they're wealthy and therefore powerful and influential beyond belief, and are essentially buying countries all over the world. They've heavy into the Caribbean, and the Monroe Doctrine is dead.

    They've cut back on coal in Peking but the country still runs boo coo coal plants. The first link below shows a cool adjustable map.

    https://www.carbonbrief.org/mapped-w...l-power-plants

    https://www.npr.org/2019/04/29/71634...al-bet-on-coal

    http://www.coha.org/filling-the-void...bean-presence/

    I too have had lektrik leaf blower and string trimmer for two or maybe three years now. The blower got a lot of use until it started smoking last fall, and it wasn't Cuban cigars either. Bought both at Aldi which is a great store for lots of stuff besides food. We bought a memory foam bed there for 250 bucks. You can pay ten times that elsewhere, if you wish to.

    It's unfortunate that our local Reds don't understand who the real enemy/competition is. Certain people in Worshington make me think of cats fighting, when all of a sudden a pack of wild dogs show up and...well, the end is not good.

    Alex on Autos has good things to say about the 2020 Soul 'lektrik, 220+ mile range and zip to 60 in seven or less. That would work for 95% of my driving, I don't go far often and even so, it's been under 200 miles. Yet the thought of getting stranded is always at the back of my mind, when thinking about something that doesn't have convenient and everywhere places to re-energize.
    I'm not going to argue against China because there isn't a damn thing that can be done about them. Plus it is a separate argument regarding IF we should adapt EV's in the USA. However, I think we have to adapt EV's in the USA at a minimum to counter China. China wants to build their EV industry so they can dominate the world, I don't want that to happen because unlike everyone else, I do think EV's will be a big part of our future.

    As far as tailpipe emissions being so clean - true dat, but multiply that small amount x millions of vehicles. It comes down to which has more efficient scrubbers - one large electric plant running natural gas or millions of vehicles with separate "plants" to make their own power. I'd tend to think the one, large, stationary electric plant will be more efficient and have better emissions scrubbers. It's just that the plant is in one spot and the pollution is localized, meaning it is a much bigger target than a diffuse amount of vehicles where any one on its own is insignificant. But I really don't know the answer to this....

    But I have people coming over this afternoon, I am going to revel in some good old fashioned propane burning and cook up some fantastic anti-greenie/anti-vegan filet mignons, corn and my own recipe for potatoes based on german potato salad.

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    Re: GM Talks Electric Pickups, Again

    Yeah but........Yeah but........Yeah but........Yeah but........Yeah but........Yeah but........Yeah but........



    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    Or, another way to look at it is continue to build $20k profit ICE trucks; while you let someone else make the truck that makes the $2k profit. This will allow them to build a name for themselves and steal your sales. Then the price of batteries go down, they are making more $$ and now you have less sales and most likely less profit per vehicle as your fixed costs have to be spread over your existing sales. Then we will be reading about how GM, yet again, didn't take the lead and someone ate their lunch.
    Cruze.... .... Impala..... LaCrosse..... XTS...... Letting someone else make that $2,000 make a name for themselves and steal your sales?

    And you don't even have to spend a dime on R & D, or wait for battery cost to go down, you can do it today!


    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    And, if you let someone else make that electric pickup, isn't that a $20k loss to you as the consumer might have bought your ICE truck? Meaning it was a sale you didn't make. Wasn't your argument for Ford fleet sales that it is better to make that sale and garner a $1 profit vs. no sale and no profit? So better to make a $2,000 profit than nothing at all.
    You are in accounting, right? You can't conflate the incremental profit of a lower-margin fleet sale with selling a person buying an ICE truck with $20,000 profit vs. that same person buying one of your EV trucks, where you only made $2,000. GM is getting rid of vehicles they make low margins on, so you buy something they make more money on, now here, you say they are going to spend a crap-ton of money on something, just to get you to buy it, so they make $2,000 instead of $20,000. The irony in all of this is, the money they are spending to do all this, is coming from the product they are trying to get rid of.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    Plus, don't forget, the cost of ICE is supposed to go up as tighter environmental restrictions take place, so some of that $20k profit might decrease.
    Wait until some "greeny" finds out how "un-green" EV is.......................


    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    Also, if your EV architecture can be shared across all of your vehicles, now you are making $2k on everything vs. the current situation where almost all of the profits come from pickups and virtually nothing from everything else. So now you can make that Malibu EV and make a profit.
    So GM's going to use the same artitecture; make $2,000 on a $50,000 truck and going to also make $2,000 on a $30,000 Malibu?

    How much would they make on a EV Cruze.... .... Impala..... LaCrosse..... XTS?


    I'm going to start playing the lottery now; because when I win, I'll be able to say "I told you so!"



    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    As I read the arguments against EV's I have some thoughts. Where the raw materials and electricity come from are shared concerns of mine. Do we have the infrastructure in place to generate the presumed increase in electric demand? And where are these raw materials coming from? Mother China who is in the process of weaponizing them vs. Trumps tariff threats?

    But where are 5,000 new coal plants coming from? Certainly not in the USA or the EU, and from what I understand Mother China is curtailing their usage.

    But, on the flip side of the coin, I think some of the arguments are based on today's tech and not allowing for advancements. Everything I've read points to greatly reduced charging times. I've chatted with several people who own Tesla's, they didn't buy them for the green image, they bought them because as soon as they drove one they loved the silent, instant torque. These are the same people who will buy EV pickups, people who are open minded and will give them a shot. Somewhat related - I just bought an electric leaf blower so I can clean my driveway, walkways and deck without needing a shower because my gas powered handheld leaves me smelling like gas/oil mixture. I haven't used my gas blower since, I loooooove the electric one. I don't stink, I can use it at a moments notice (no warmup needed), no shower needed, no hearing protection needed, no trips to the gas station, no maintenance - I just have to remember to have it charged (though it charges quickly). Zero thought to which costs less to run. No brainwashing.

    As far as pollution, which generates more pollution - 200,000 ICE vehicles with individual powerplants or one big electric power plant supplying power to 200,000 EV's? I will presume any new plants in the USA will be natural gas powered, not coal - meaning a cleaner power source. And which has a more sophisticated emission scrubbers - the one massive electric plant or the 200,000 ICE vehicles? I'd assume the power plant, but I don't know.

    And EV's will need to be hit with some kind of tax so that the owners pay for the roads they are using.

    I went electric too!


    My washing machine is now electric, but I did still keep my gas dryer....................


    Please let us know when you switch-over to an electric lawnmower!
    Last edited by Ed753; 06-09-2019 at 06:55 AM.
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