GM "Fundamentally" in Favor of Expanding US Diesel Line-Up - Page 3

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Thread: GM "Fundamentally" in Favor of Expanding US Diesel Line-Up

  1. #31
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    Re: GM "Fundamentally" in Favor of Expanding US Diesel Line-Up

    GM does realize that the popular TDI is the wagon, right?? Probably not...
    For this reason the Cruze diesel will fail. If you want one, get it while you can.
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  3. #32
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    Re: GM "Fundamentally" in Favor of Expanding US Diesel Line-Up

    Quote Originally Posted by AMERICA 123 View Post
    Good to hear.



    Whoever can bring the right kind of lite fullsize Pick Up diesel in first, is going to glad they did.

    And no, the Ram 1500 3.0L VM + the Torqueflite Eight / 8HP ain't what I'm talking about.


    Not knockin' it - expect it will do well - may end up with one anyway - but no, that's likely to be a successful smallest size type thing.

    Unless they somehow eventually breath on it real hard in a way no has been able to do for the US market on a per liter basis etc etc to date.

    You always have to add displacement for the diesel fuel and emissions stupidity here compared to Europe.

    There's a spot in the middle displacement wise - that's the one you really want for this kind of application.

    Basically somewhere between ..... 3.2 / 3.5 on the low end and then eh.... 4.4 / 4.7 tops on a oversized big end.

    Most likely, somewhere in the 3.5 - 4.0 range.

    5, or 6 or even perhaps....... an 8 cylinder........

    Somewhat paradoxically, you could go smaller ..... or even bigger ..... with the right kind of tech break thru.


    So for GM and while attempting to use some good 'ole diesel modularity...... and stick it to the Euros all around the globe.......

    A 2.8 I4 + a 3.5 I5 + a 4.2 ?6 and a 5.4 V8 ......... or thereabouts for each - yep, some .... or all of that work ...... if you push.
    You are aware that GM owns 50% of the 3.0 V6 VM diesel motor.

  4. #33
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    Re: GM "Fundamentally" in Favor of Expanding US Diesel Line-Up

    Eaton53, can see why you say that.

    Even can take it further in a sense - to way back when.

    Wagons ( Passats and Jettas ) have always done good enough to exceptional within their own total sales numbers .

    ( Lately though and for a good stretch as well, the Jetta Sportwagen TDi has been down - quite consistently. Passat Sedan TDI ( mt ) seems a likely suspect as to why. )

    However, there have big stretches - times and places along the way where the Hatchbacks and the Sedans have done more than well enough including ahead of the wagons.

    Passat Sedan is doing well with the TDi as we speak.


    In fact, in some ways VW has some open slots or weak - weaker spots amongst the non wagon offerings - including but not limited to the fact they do not have their 'dct' fully sorted out for the diesels - for any of them. ( On the verge of seriously bad repercussions with that in China btw, and already have some sizable damage + damage from some other things closely intertwined . )

    You could also possibly smack them around a bit on their Diesel maintenance costs - they're a bit vulnerable there too.

    I guess we will have to see how it turns out but the other thing is - not so sure - given GM's coverage and strength with CUVs - that a Wagon Cruze TD would necessarily do more - or better in a program sense than the Sedan - here in the States.

    They can add the wagon in later perhaps one way or another or.... meet the Tiguan 'TDi' head on when it finally gets here.

    A Chevrolet Traxx or whatever they call it diesel would be interesting as well...... lots of possibles if they get the 2.0L TD dialed in.

    Hatches would be nice also but then again..... the CUVs are where it's at in the US - if you want to make serious volume and money.


    And yeah, all these bodystyles we don't get here or take to as a group would be sweet but that just ain't enough - really more of a Euro product niche
    Last edited by AMERICA 123; 12-15-2012 at 12:58 PM.
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  6. #34
    6.2 Liter LS9 Supercharged V8 lio45's Avatar
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    Re: GM “Fundamentally” in Favor of Expanding US Diesel Line-Up

    Quote Originally Posted by ejfx View Post
    I wouldnt say VW led they way here in America ... they just bring over what they already have in Europe ... Europe is way different than America
    No, he's completely right -- VW totally led the way in America by being the only one who dared, in the 1990s and 2000s, to keep bringing their diesel models to our shores... while GM, Ford, Toyota, Nissan(Renault) have not yet decided to greenlight the idea of bringing the diesels that they already have everywhere else to North America. (Well, GM actually did -- recently.)

    So, yes, VW has led the way...

    And now GM is the first automaker to follow VW's lead and start bringing over here the diesels that they already have in Europe. The other large automakers who have plenty of diesel models in their global lineups might then decide to follow in VW's, and now GM's, footsteps...

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    Re: GM "Fundamentally" in Favor of Expanding US Diesel Line-Up

    I think many people buy what they want and logic is not always about instant payback.

    If the vehicle is more pleasurable to drive then it makes sense.

    I hear diesels are tq monsters and they are fun to drive.

    I believe small diesels make sense ...

    I prefer high hp high tq gas powered v8 s yet I like options for those that want them.

  8. #36
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    Re: GM "Fundamentally" in Favor of Expanding US Diesel Line-Up

    Quote Originally Posted by fastball View Post
    It was GM who single handedly ruined diesel's reputation in passenger cars in America 30 years ago, so I can understand why they've been gun shy about making a diesel available in a passenger car again.
    Incorrect.

    Ford helped.

    Starting with the Escort TD.

    VW helped and MB - massively so later in the late '80s and the earlier 1/2 to 2/3s of the '90s. Two time periods - and three engines worth .......that I can easily remember...... especially the one.



    VW also screwed up later including and especially with the 2004 - 2005 Passat PD 2.0Ls in the US most of all.

    Best all around, overall consumer performance record for lite passenger vehicle diesel in the US such as they are...... are ironically, owned by Peugeot, Nissan, Volvo and BMW.

    From way back when especially for Peugeot.

    It's not what I'm talking about here, nor is it the best of what they brought , but tellingly nonetheless, the highest rated mpg diesel product ever offered in the USA past '83 is a Nissan Sentra ???? 1.7L i4 4MT.

    In a class of one using the revised MPG estimates.

    Sure MB did some great product and a lot of it - decades worth in fact but that was not all - got a head of themselves for the US fuel and oil and fundamentally screwed up not once, but twice. With three engine displacements and families although that count does not overlap one on one.

    Nissan and or Peugeot .... in first position although Volvo and BMW especially are not far off.


    Quote Originally Posted by fastball View Post
    But we all know modern diesel 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder engines are a far cry from the Olds 350 diesel. Not even close. So GM should get over their tepidness about them and start making them.
    As far as GM goes, it was not just about the 350.

    The 'DD' 6.2s especially in various HD trims and applications were problematic in their own lesser but still significant way - as were some of the 6.5s later. Used to crack the heads in three specific spots with a little owner abuse thrown in or at them. Given how ****ed up our coolant supply was during this time - it happened even with good owner procedure. And the fuel contributed here as well. Would screw up the EGR ( certain LDs also and especially. HDs 'same' but also somewhat different story) - then they'd also get hot / hot spots because of that also.... put the two together and yep, you were off to the races. Some of the earlier HD heads..... just were not right - imo.


    ********


    One thing well worth noting with regard to this; all suffered and suffered massively because of our diesel oil and hugely so because of our diesel fuel.

    The fuel was a three parter.

    Lousy standards and nonexistent policing - which truth be told has always been part of the American Way with POL until relatively recently - and still is for lite gasser product oil and fuel although not as dramatically in the past.

    Anyway then we come to the biggie - a real step backwards from what had gone on previously.

    Alaskan higher sulphur crude.

    Everybody involved looked the other way on this. Every way possible.

    Didn't want to rock the boat on fuel prices ( and 'their' business position ) - and fuel prices coming down especially diesel fuel prices in the '80s and most of the '90s.

    As a result, on a routine basis, sulphur content in US diesel fuel was literally - in some cases off the charts bad ie twice to as much as ten times plus the supposed spec which was way high to begin with.

    I cannot remember exactly - but the documented record was either twelve or twelve and half or twenty or twenty five times max spec.

    Mexican diesel - once you got the erratically occurring dirt and dust out, was often, a much. much, better ( warm weather ) fuel.

    Beyond a total joke -

    The point is....

    GM did not do it alone.

    MB and VW with big 'help' from American POL finished it off the last time around.
    Last edited by AMERICA 123; 12-15-2012 at 03:50 PM.
    "From tech stocks to high gas prices, Goldman Sachs has engineered every major market manipulation since the Great Depression — and they're about to do it again."
    "The world's most powerful investment bank is a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money."
    "If America is circling the drain, Goldman Sachs has found a way to be that drain — " Matt Taibbi

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    Re: GM “Fundamentally” in Favor of Expanding US Diesel Line-Up

    Quote Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
    No, he's completely right -- VW totally led the way in America by being the only one who dared, in the 1990s and 2000s, -

    So, yes, VW has led the way...

    .
    Peugeot and MB 'led the way' in postwar America.

    VW's first came much, much later.

    VW did in a sense, keep the flame going once or twice although they also let it go out once or twice along the way mostly further back.

    MB did almost as much flame holding as VW but during different time periods.

    Imperfectly in some parts they kinda' switched on and off together and alternated.
    Last edited by AMERICA 123; 12-15-2012 at 02:38 PM.
    "From tech stocks to high gas prices, Goldman Sachs has engineered every major market manipulation since the Great Depression — and they're about to do it again."
    "The world's most powerful investment bank is a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money."
    "If America is circling the drain, Goldman Sachs has found a way to be that drain — " Matt Taibbi

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    Re: GM "Fundamentally" in Favor of Expanding US Diesel Line-Up

    GM needs to knock the dust off the 4.5 duramax and have it debut in the next gen Tahoe/Suburban/Yukon.

    If all goes well drop them in the pick ups as well.

    A Tahoe with 500 torque that gets somewhere around 18-19 cityy and 24 -25 mpg highway would be amazing and IMO a nice little profit maker
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    Re: GM "Fundamentally" in Favor of Expanding US Diesel Line-Up

    Make it happen!

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    Re: GM "Fundamentally" in Favor of Expanding US Diesel Line-Up

    Quote Originally Posted by richmond2000 View Post
    the Colorado is ONLY sold in Diesel 4 POT versions so the US Colorado logically could come in 2.8L diesel and I wonder if the engine bay is even wide enough to fit a 4.3 or 3.6 V6 in them and if the 2.8 DuraMax is certified for Colorado use the Van and 1/2 tonner make sense like the 2.0 Diesel could go into the MCE Malibu and NEXT gen 'NOX
    The new Colorado is available with the 3.6 V6 in the Middle East.

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    Re: GM "Fundamentally" in Favor of Expanding US Diesel Line-Up

    GM will also have to follow VW's lead and make all their other engines terrible in comparison so people have a reason to pick the diesel. Maybe bring back the Iron Duke as a base engine for the Cruze, like VW has done with the 8v 2.0l?

    Diesel passenger cars are a dead end technology and makes no sense anywhere. EU emissions will catch up with North American emissionsin a few years and all but make pass car diesels illegal and that day can't come soon enough. You guys know that **** causes cancer right?

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    Re: GM "Fundamentally" in Favor of Expanding US Diesel Line-Up

    Quote Originally Posted by tentacles View Post
    GM will also have to follow VW's lead and make all their other engines terrible in comparison so people have a reason to pick the diesel.
    Maybe they have already the 2.0L diesel is my pick of the engines we get for the Cruze. LOL

    I love it when i hear you guys in the U.S. complaining about petrol prices, I paid $1.40 per litre for diesel last week and that was because of a shopping discount real price was $1.49..
    Have a friend with a Captiva same as mine except she has the V6 model her ave fuel eco via the dash is 3L per 100km's worse then mine and my ave speed for a week is about 15km/h less then her's. So if I had the same ave speed as her's my Captiva would be even more economical then it is already. Price difference between petrol and diesel models is $1000.. I'm sure I'm going to be way infront of her by the time mines paid off in 5 yrs plus mine will be worth more then hers because of the diesel.
    Modern diesel engines are vastly different to the old school diesel engines and only getting better I don't see it as dead end tech at all.
    People here complain about diesel being carcinogenic but havn't really checked up on how bad the aromatics they put in unleaded fuel here is either.
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    Re: GM "Fundamentally" in Favor of Expanding US Diesel Line-Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Perian View Post
    Diesel is $4.99 at the station down the street from my office.

    Can't believe the Cruze diesel is still one year away.
    Diesel here in north Texas $3.59 as of yesterday. And this wasn't even trying to scour for the lowest price.

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    Re: GM "Fundamentally" in Favor of Expanding US Diesel Line-Up

    Quote Originally Posted by AMERICA 123 View Post
    Incorrect.
    That my be your perspective, but you walk up to anyone on the street, and the VAST majority of people will remember the Olds 350 Diesel before they have even heard of anything else you mentioned.

    It's seriously the most notoriously bad diesel engine ever sold in America. And it was THE engine that killed diesel's reputation here.

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    Re: GM "Fundamentally" in Favor of Expanding US Diesel Line-Up

    The final irony is that Oldsmobile did beef up the engine in its last year. Olds loyalists will say the diesel was good. It's one of many stories of GM rushing a product to market, that they had to correct - only to find that nobody was paying attention by the end stage.

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