Did GM Have A Plan For New Sedans All Along?

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Thread: Did GM Have A Plan For New Sedans All Along?

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    News Contributor Premium Member Perian's Avatar
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    Did GM Have A Plan For New Sedans All Along?

    Automotive News
    September 8, 2020

    Honda's sedan strength, GM's truck might are set to unite.

    The alliance would build on a partnership announced in April under which GM is helping to develop two new Honda EVs powered by GM's upcoming Ultium batteries.

    A broad alliance could help push Honda further into the EV space and potentially add large SUVs and pickups to its lineup. For GM, the arrangement could create an inexpensive way to reenter the small-sedan segment it has abandoned and to continue selling a midsize sedan in a market increasingly tilted toward crossovers.

    Honda said it expects to jointly develop gasoline, hybrid and electric vehicles, and it highlighted the sedan segment as having high potential. Honda has a lot to offer, based on its perennially popular Civic and Accord sedans.

    "I think [GM] would like to still have some presence in that market," Abuelsamid said. "There is still some potential there, but not necessarily enough to justify developing their own new vehicle platforms or even retaining production capacity for that. They probably see this as a good opportunity to maintain a foothold in those segments with a comparatively low investment."

    GM also has reduced investments in internal-combustion powertrains over the past few years, he said.

    "Honda makes excellent internal-combustion powertrains. This gives them an opportunity to leverage Honda's strength to maintain a presence in that market, even at a reduced level that can still be profitable for both companies," Abuelsamid said.








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    News Contributor Premium Member Perian's Avatar
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    Re: Did GM Have A Plan For New Sedans All Along?

    For GM, the arrangement could create an inexpensive way to reenter the small-sedan segment it has abandoned and to continue selling a midsize sedan in a market increasingly tilted toward crossovers.
    Sounds like money in the bank.

    Let the model naming begin...The new Chevy Malicord, Cruzic, and Sparfit...









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    Re: Did GM Have A Plan For New Sedans All Along?

    you mean an ultra reliable GM sedan? That would be amazing. And btw, I think the Malibu is pretty decent. But the Accord is so damn good looking the Malibu cant compete.

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    Re: Did GM Have A Plan For New Sedans All Along?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perian View Post
    Sounds like money in the bank.

    Let the model naming begin...The new Chevy Malicord, Cruzic, and Sparfit...
    I'm, sure the Alliston Ontario Civic plant could churn out 100,000 more small cars for GM.

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    Re: Did GM Have A Plan For New Sedans All Along?

    Quote Originally Posted by b4z View Post
    you mean an ultra reliable GM sedan? That would be amazing. And btw, I think the Malibu is pretty decent. But the Accord is so damn good looking the Malibu cant compete.

    Personally I prefer the Malibu's looks. It does fall short in other ways though.

    Based on long-term reliability studies over the past five years, Chevrolet makes the more reliable vehicles. Chevrolet's quality performance over the past decade deserves far more credit than it receives. Or ever will receive. They've surpassed brands like Honda and Toyota and seem to get little credit for it.
    Drives a 2019 Cadillac ATS Coupe and a 1988 Pontiac Trans Am GTA.

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    Re: Did GM Have A Plan For New Sedans All Along?

    Quote Originally Posted by ksr View Post
    Personally I prefer the Malibu's looks. It does fall short in other ways though.

    Based on long-term reliability studies over the past five years, Chevrolet makes the more reliable vehicles. Chevrolet's quality performance over the past decade deserves far more credit than it receives. Or ever will receive. They've surpassed brands like Honda and Toyota and seem to get little credit for it.
    the Malibu is very good looking. My experience with GM front wheel drive based vehicles has not been good. Wheel bearing failures prior to 50K miles.

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    Re: Did GM Have A Plan For New Sedans All Along?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perian View Post
    For GM, the arrangement could create an inexpensive way to reenter the small-sedan segment it has abandoned and to continue selling a midsize sedan in a market increasingly tilted toward crossovers.
    Sounds like money in the bank.
    Agreed. Makes a great deal of sense, on multiple levels.

    Besides all the savings (economies of scale, engineering, etc) and the obvious fact that GM gets to stay in the mid-sized market (and possibly re-enter the compact market), this also helps to "future proof" any future market shifts. SUV/CUVs are reigning supreme, but a huge spike in oil over a protracted period of time can erode that reign and chip away at profits.

    What's more, staying in these market segments let's GM maintain customers while also NOT spotting a competitor additional sales. As crazy as it may sound to some people, there are patrons who actually want an old school "bread n' butter" sedan to drive on a daily basis. For those people, GM would soon have nothing to offer. Even if Malibu sales stayed stagnant, that's still 132,000 customers who are not visiting a Toyota, Nissan, VW, Hyundai -- and Honda -- showroom.

    That has to count for something. And with Fusion sales ending, that leaves 166,000 customers (from 2019) with no where to turn if they want a domestic branded product. I'm sure more than one or two could end up at Chevrolet.

    Quote Originally Posted by ksr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by b4z View Post
    you mean an ultra reliable GM sedan? That would be amazing. And btw, I think the Malibu is pretty decent. But the Accord is so damn good looking the Malibu cant compete.
    Personally I prefer the Malibu's looks. It does fall short in other ways though.

    Based on long-term reliability studies over the past five years, Chevrolet makes the more reliable vehicles. Chevrolet's quality performance over the past decade deserves far more credit than it receives. Or ever will receive. They've surpassed brands like Honda and Toyota and seem to get little credit for it.
    Agreed that I prefer the Malibu's looks over the Accord.

    That said, while Honda's reputation is near-legendary, GM's reliability and quality ratings don't get any press or recognition for how we'll they've done. It's really a shame. I know we live in a space that cries "perception is reality" it's really quite terrible that this "stigma" has lingered as long as it has.
    Last edited by nadepalma; 09-08-2020 at 09:43 AM.
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    Re: Did GM Have A Plan For New Sedans All Along?

    Quote Originally Posted by b4z View Post
    you mean an ultra reliable GM sedan? That would be amazing. And btw, I think the Malibu is pretty decent. But the Accord is so damn good looking the Malibu cant compete.
    Those are Accords from the 1990s and 1980s, today I would get a Malibu/Ford. Cheaper, more reliable and better price.

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    Re: Did GM Have A Plan For New Sedans All Along?

    Quote Originally Posted by nadepalma View Post
    ...

    What's more, staying in these market segments let's GM maintain customers while also NOT spotting a competitor additional sales. As crazy as it may sound to some people, there are patrons who actually want an old school "bread n' butter" sedan to drive on a daily basis. For those people, GM would soon have nothing to offer. Even if Malibu sales stayed stagnant, that's still 132,000 customers who are not visiting a Toyota, Nissan, VW, Hyundai -- and Honda -- showroom.
    ...
    As one of those weird “old school” people who vastly prefer the looks, handling, and MPG that sedans/hatches offer, i’m very happy with the Honda deal. Just keep those stick shifts coming!
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    Re: Did GM Have A Plan For New Sedans All Along?

    Quote Originally Posted by nadepalma View Post
    Agreed. Makes a great deal of sense, on multiple levels.

    Besides all the savings (economies of scale, engineering, etc) and the obvious fact that GM gets to stay in the mid-sized market (and possibly re-enter the compact market), this also helps to "future proof" any future market shifts. SUV/CUVs are reigning supreme, but a huge spike in oil over a protracted period of time can erode that reign and chip away at profits.

    What's more, staying in these market segments let's GM maintain customers while also NOT spotting a competitor additional sales. As crazy as it may sound to some people, there are patrons who actually want an old school "bread n' butter" sedan to drive on a daily basis. For those people, GM would soon have nothing to offer. Even if Malibu sales stayed stagnant, that's still 132,000 customers who are not visiting a Toyota, Nissan, VW, Hyundai -- and Honda -- showroom.

    That has to count for something. And with Fusion sales ending, that leaves 166,000 customers (from 2019) with no where to turn if they want a domestic branded product. I'm sure more than one or two could end up at Chevrolet.


    Agreed that I prefer the Malibu's looks over the Accord.

    That said, while Honda's reputation is near-legendary, GM's reliability and quality ratings don't get any press or recognition for how we'll they've done. It's really a shame. I know we live in a space that cries "perception is reality" it's really quite terrible that this "stigma" has lingered as long as it has.


    It's one of those frustrating things that will never, ever go away. Chevy is still hearing about 1974 Vegas. Yet when Honda had widespread transmission issues in the early 2000s to the point where there were massive recalls and warranties extended for hundreds of thousands of cars, it's all forgotten. A guy I worked with bought a very nice Accord coupe and had to get the transmission replaced (under warranty) twice. His next car? A Civic. On which that transmission had to be replaced. But he swore he'd never buy another American car.
    Drives a 2019 Cadillac ATS Coupe and a 1988 Pontiac Trans Am GTA.

    In the past, I've had a 5th gen Camaro, a CTS sedan and coupe, two 3rd gen Firebird Formulas, a convertible 4th gen Trans Am, a Reatta, a couple of Monte Carlos, an Avenger coupe, a couple of Cavalier hatchbacks, a Saturn SC1, and a Cherokee.

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    Re: Did GM Have A Plan For New Sedans All Along?

    Quote Originally Posted by ksr View Post
    It's one of those frustrating things that will never, ever go away. Chevy is still hearing about 1974 Vegas. Yet when Honda had widespread transmission issues in the early 2000s to the point where there were massive recalls and warranties extended for hundreds of thousands of cars, it's all forgotten. A guy I worked with bought a very nice Accord coupe and had to get the transmission replaced (under warranty) twice. His next car? A Civic. On which that transmission had to be replaced. But he swore he'd never buy another American car.
    Indoctrination is real.. I am clocking 170,000.00 miles on my Traverse with Zero powertrain or electronics issues, heck even the shocks are still the originals... Everything works in that thing

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    Re: Did GM Have A Plan For New Sedans All Along?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perian
    A broad alliance could help push Honda further into the EV space and potentially add large SUVs and pickups to its lineup. For GM, the arrangement could create an inexpensive way to reenter the small-sedan segment it has abandoned and to continue selling a midsize sedan in a market increasingly tilted toward crossovers.
    This could be very good for GM and their faltering sedan sales issue.

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    Re: Did GM Have A Plan For New Sedans All Along?

    Quote Originally Posted by ksr View Post
    It's one of those frustrating things that will never, ever go away. Chevy is still hearing about 1974 Vegas. Yet when Honda had widespread transmission issues in the early 2000s to the point where there were massive recalls and warranties extended for hundreds of thousands of cars, it's all forgotten. A guy I worked with bought a very nice Accord coupe and had to get the transmission replaced (under warranty) twice. His next car? A Civic. On which that transmission had to be replaced. But he swore he'd never buy another American car.
    I don't disagree, however the part of the equation that is missing, is the dealer experience. Back when Toyota came over, their cars sucked. BUT, if you had a problem, the dealership took care of you and the car. Toyota grew and flourished. While this was going on, we all know that the dealership experience at the domestics often sucked eggs, and their market share shrunk. People want to be taken care of, and they will go where they are. Customer Service DOES MATTER and is just as important as the product itself!! In the case of your co-worker, they obviously treated him well, or he would have bolted to a different brand.
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    Re: Did GM Have A Plan For New Sedans All Along?

    Quote Originally Posted by ksr View Post
    It's one of those frustrating things that will never, ever go away. Chevy is still hearing about 1974 Vegas. Yet when Honda had widespread transmission issues in the early 2000s to the point where there were massive recalls and warranties extended for hundreds of thousands of cars, it's all forgotten. A guy I worked with bought a very nice Accord coupe and had to get the transmission replaced (under warranty) twice. His next car? A Civic. On which that transmission had to be replaced. But he swore he'd never buy another American car.
    Yep. I know someone who had a myriad of problems with a Volkswagen until she finally sold it out of frustration.

    She's now in ANOTHER Volkswagen. That has a bunch of new problems.
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    Re: Did GM Have A Plan For New Sedans All Along?

    Quote Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65 View Post
    Yep. I know someone who had a myriad of problems with a Volkswagen until she finally sold it out of frustration.

    She's now in ANOTHER Volkswagen. That has a bunch of new problems.
    Though, that line of thinking also kept GM in business during the 80's, how many GM owners kept having their cars fail on them yet keep going back for more. Without those diehard GM fans, GM wouldn't be in business.

    GM really made a bad name for itself with shoddy quality, old man car image, etc. in the 80's. I don't know when, how or if they'll ever shed that. It's like earning a bad nickname in high school, people from high school will never forget it; and it keeps getting brought up so frequently it is being taught to millennials who never experienced said bad quality. I know the Ford Edsel because I was taught it was ugly (I wasn't born yet), though when I see it, it looks ok to me next to the competition from that era. But I know it because it was deemed ugly....

    I can't read the entire article, is this ICE GM/Honda thing real or just wishful thinking? I thought the GM/Honda partnership was BEV only.

    PS - the current gen Accord, to me, is awkward looking at best.

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