CAW may opt for parallel talks with Detroit 3

  1. Welcome to GM Inside News Forum – General discussion forum for GM

    Welcome to GM Inside News Forum - a website dedicated to all things GM.

    You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, Join GM Inside News Forum today!
     
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 25

Thread: CAW may opt for parallel talks with Detroit 3

  1. #1
    6.2 Liter LS9 Supercharged V8 Premium Member ne_one's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    St. Catharines, Ontario
    Posts
    9,586
    Thanks
    257
    Thanked 96 Times in 51 Posts

    CAW may opt for parallel talks with Detroit 3

    CAW may opt for parallel talks with Detroit 3
    Automotive News
    August 29, 2012

    The Canadian Auto Workers union said it may break with tradition and continue contract talks with all three Detroit automakers simultaneously, instead of targeting one of them to tackle first to set a bargaining pattern for the others.

    The union is currently meeting with the Canadian management of General Motors Co., Ford Motor Co., and Chrysler Group in separate talks at a Toronto hotel.

    "If we're making progress, we won't even talk about a target company," CAW President Ken Lewenza said today. "I want to stay optimistic that we can get a deal."

    If the simultaneous talks are not making progress, Lewenza said he will choose a target. But he denied media reports that he could wait to close to Sept. 16 to make that call.

    He said the decision would likely come at least five days before all three contracts expire on Sept. 17 at 11:59 p.m. The union can strike any time after that.

    Canadian contract talks are expected to be tough, as companies seek to cut labor costs they say are the highest in the world, and the union argues that workers who helped keep the companies afloat during the financial crisis should share in the rewards of a return to profitability.

    Full article at link.

  2. Remove Advertisements
    GM Inside News
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    7.0 Liter LS7 V8
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Logged off
    Posts
    4,723
    Thanks
    1,348
    Thanked 1,141 Times in 635 Posts

    Re: CAW may opt for parallel talks with Detroit 3

    Good luck, CAW, you are going to need it! In a world where we are still awash in excess automotive manufacturing capacity and the Canadian dollar is at par with the US dollar, you'll be lucky to not have to take further concessions and/or lose jobs. If I were the CAW, I'd be worrying less about wages and be more concerned with coming up with a way to stabalize (and grow) automotive manufacturing in Canada over the long haul. Otherwise, we're looking at a sector that is probably in long-term decline in this country. Probably good to keep in mind that the D3 can build cars anywhere in the world, but the CAW membership is pretty much stuck here in Canada!

  4. #3
    1.4 Liter Turbocharged ECOTEC
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    69
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Re: CAW may opt for parallel talks with Detroit 3

    I have to disagree, I think the automakers are at capacity in their plants and do not have excess capacity.True the high dollar hurts but GM also closed plants in Canada when the dollar was at 70 cents US.The big(Detroit)3 are going to have issues of not having enough space or workers as sales grow within the next 5 years.AS a GM worker in Oshawa,how can GM complain of not enough capacity yet the consolidated plant is set to close in June 2013?.....let the games and concessions begin.

  5. Remove Advertisements
    GM Inside News
    Advertisements
     

  6. #4
    2.4 Liter SIDI ECOTEC DealerGuyAtl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    250
    Thanks
    217
    Thanked 23 Times in 12 Posts
    My Ride
    2016 CTS

    Re: CAW may opt for parallel talks with Detroit 3

    Quote Originally Posted by weasel View Post
    I have to disagree, I think the automakers are at capacity in their plants and do not have excess capacity.True the high dollar hurts but GM also closed plants in Canada when the dollar was at 70 cents US.The big(Detroit)3 are going to have issues of not having enough space or workers as sales grow within the next 5 years.AS a GM worker in Oshawa,how can GM complain of not enough capacity yet the consolidated plant is set to close in June 2013?.....let the games and concessions begin.
    GM still has a "mothballed" plant in Janesville Wisc they can use.

  7. #5
    4.4 Liter Supercharged Northstar jbartley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    JAX
    Posts
    2,692
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 19 Times in 12 Posts

    Re: CAW may opt for parallel talks with Detroit 3

    yep..good to know they're still delusional...

  8. #6
    5.3 Liter Vortec V8
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    The Office of The Burnout Czar
    Posts
    1,466
    Thanks
    91
    Thanked 76 Times in 41 Posts

    Re: CAW may opt for parallel talks with Detroit 3

    Quote Originally Posted by DealerGuyAtl View Post
    GM still has a "mothballed" plant in Janesville Wisc they can use.
    Maybe they will move the work from Oshawa to Janesville. They could make it a tier 2 wage exclusive plant.
    From the office of the Burnout Czar.

  9. #7
    1.4 Liter Turbocharged ECOTEC
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    69
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Re: CAW may opt for parallel talks with Detroit 3

    more jobs moved to the states from Canada where they are ready,happy and content to work their ass off for crap pay..just what GM wants.At least the CAW is fighting for middle class wages,health care and benefits while UAW sells everyone out for 14 $ an hour.

  10. #8
    5.3 Liter Vortec V8
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    The Office of The Burnout Czar
    Posts
    1,466
    Thanks
    91
    Thanked 76 Times in 41 Posts

    Re: CAW may opt for parallel talks with Detroit 3

    Quote Originally Posted by weasel View Post
    more jobs moved to the states from Canada where they are ready,happy and content to work their ass off for crap pay..just what GM wants.At least the CAW is fighting for middle class wages,health care and benefits while UAW sells everyone out for 14 $ an hour.
    Tier 2 employees make $19 with a path to move to full pay. The CAW doesn't provide anything special that a UAW worker can't do.
    From the office of the Burnout Czar.

  11. #9
    1.4 Liter Turbocharged ECOTEC
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    69
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Re: CAW may opt for parallel talks with Detroit 3

    Our Equinox was moved from Oshawa to Spring Hill because UAW negotiated that plant to be reopened for 14$ an hour wages .

  12. #10
    7.0 Liter LS7 V8
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Logged off
    Posts
    4,723
    Thanks
    1,348
    Thanked 1,141 Times in 635 Posts

    Re: CAW may opt for parallel talks with Detroit 3

    The original thesis behind the union movement was that eventually most, if not all, workers would be part of a union. At some point, unions stopped worrying so much about unionizing the workforce and focused on improving the wages and benefits for the members it did have. That worked great when the economy was growing and the threat of a strike was a significant threat to automakers, who would lose significant revenue during the strike. Today, the tables have turned. Most manufacturers have so much global manufacturing capacity, that if they can't get the labour deal they want, they can just move product to a plant somewhere else. And so few workers are unionized that there are lots of unskilled workers that would jump at the chance to work for 'only' $14 an hour.

    Put it another way: a worker's 'product' is their labour and there is an incredibly competitive global market for unskilled labour. The CAW is in no position right now to command anything; the only way to change that over the near-term is to radically change what a union is. Perhaps instead of aspiring to be a 'labour monoplist' a union could become a 'labour developer' -- taking union dues and negotiating company contributions and taking on the role (that companies rarely invest much time/money in) of ensuring their members are well trained and capable of maximum productivity. Not sure if it would work, but if unions are to continue to exist, they need to evolve and adapt.

  13. #11
    2.8 Liter Turbocharged V6
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Montreal, QC
    Posts
    782
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts
    My Ride
    2012 Cruze LTZ, 2012 S60 T6

    Re: CAW may opt for parallel talks with Detroit 3

    Quote Originally Posted by weasel View Post
    more jobs moved to the states from Canada where they are ready,happy and content to work their ass off for crap pay..just what GM wants.At least the CAW is fighting for middle class wages,health care and benefits while UAW sells everyone out for 14 $ an hour.
    I'm pretty sure I'm paying for CAW worker health benefits.

  14. #12
    4.6 Liter Northstar V8
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    everywhere
    Posts
    1,941
    Thanks
    787
    Thanked 357 Times in 163 Posts
    My Ride
    07 Vette Cruze 2015 Colorado

    Re: CAW may opt for parallel talks with Detroit 3

    The Canadians have to know they are walking on thin ice. GM could easily move to Mexico and the savings would be huge.

  15. #13
    4.6 Liter Northstar V8
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    everywhere
    Posts
    1,941
    Thanks
    787
    Thanked 357 Times in 163 Posts
    My Ride
    07 Vette Cruze 2015 Colorado

    Re: CAW may opt for parallel talks with Detroit 3

    Quote Originally Posted by weasel View Post
    Our Equinox was moved from Oshawa to Spring Hill because UAW negotiated that plant to be reopened for 14$ an hour wages .
    They are the ones who wanted to negotiate their own contracts thus came the CAW. I say, let them continue doing their own negotiations.

  16. #14
    2.4 Liter SIDI ECOTEC DealerGuyAtl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    250
    Thanks
    217
    Thanked 23 Times in 12 Posts
    My Ride
    2016 CTS

    Re: CAW may opt for parallel talks with Detroit 3

    Quote Originally Posted by weasel View Post
    more jobs moved to the states from Canada where they are ready,happy and content to work their ass off for crap pay..just what GM wants.At least the CAW is fighting for middle class wages,health care and benefits while UAW sells everyone out for 14 $ an hour.
    The CAW needs to be competitive with all of the non union plants other manufacturers have. Toyota, Nissan, VW, Kia, Mercedes, BMW all have non union plants in the South that pay less than what the CAW thinks is competitive.

  17. #15
    3.6 Liter SIDI V6 JT87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Toronto, ON
    Posts
    1,064
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Re: CAW may opt for parallel talks with Detroit 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Tone View Post
    The original thesis behind the union movement was that eventually most, if not all, workers would be part of a union. At some point, unions stopped worrying so much about unionizing the workforce and focused on improving the wages and benefits for the members it did have. That worked great when the economy was growing and the threat of a strike was a significant threat to automakers, who would lose significant revenue during the strike. Today, the tables have turned. Most manufacturers have so much global manufacturing capacity, that if they can't get the labour deal they want, they can just move product to a plant somewhere else. And so few workers are unionized that there are lots of unskilled workers that would jump at the chance to work for 'only' $14 an hour.

    Put it another way: a worker's 'product' is their labour and there is an incredibly competitive global market for unskilled labour. The CAW is in no position right now to command anything; the only way to change that over the near-term is to radically change what a union is. Perhaps instead of aspiring to be a 'labour monoplist' a union could become a 'labour developer' -- taking union dues and negotiating company contributions and taking on the role (that companies rarely invest much time/money in) of ensuring their members are well trained and capable of maximum productivity. Not sure if it would work, but if unions are to continue to exist, they need to evolve and adapt.
    The bolded part wouldn't fly, in theory. Essentially, in the minds of a union worker, ten productive employees means one of those ten isn't needed. This kind of sentiment is present at every facility I've visited. Give them a faster, lighter electric gun, and they expect an IE to add more fasteners. More efficient workstation setup means more electrical connections. More efficiency means less workers, and membership is the bottom line. Each manufacturing system (Toyota Way, GM-GMS, WCM, etc) teaches worker involvement. However, the only part of 'worker involvement' that the line workers usually have hands-on involvement with is roll/job reduction.

    Your first paragraph makes a good chunk of sense. The only real caveat is the classification of non-skilled labour. Is it rocket science? Brain surgery? No. I can be honest in saying that not everybody can do this work. The "non-skilled" label, for me and most others, would put this kind of work in the same category as the kind of jobs you would have as a 16 year old where you effectively don't need skills (dishwasher at a restaurant, shelf stocker, gas station attendant, grass mower, etc.). That's simply not the case. I've had my share of students/supplemental workers that worked under me that simply couldn't perform manual labour. Whether it's simple mechanical aptitude, lack of ability to concentrate (daydreaming), an inability to do the same repetitive task (muscle memory), etc.

    There are a lot of ways the Canadian 3 can cut costs that will be effective. I don't think the hourly rate will change (year bonuses/profit sharing sounds likely). Changes to work rules, overtime rules, benefit retrieval, etc., can reduce variable costs. Requiring 40 hours worked (or 40 hours opportunity to work; i.e. demand-based/shortage based short work week; scheduled vacation day, etc.) prior to overtime pay kicking in (prevents the 'call in on Monday, work the Saturday, get 44 hrs of pay for 40 hrs' issue; it also limits over-manning/over roll). Lots of ways for the companies to get creative in bargaining.
    "Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."

  18. Remove Advertisements
    GM Inside News
    Advertisements
     

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.1.2