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Thread: Cadillac Sales Plunge as Lincoln Gains

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    Re: Cadillac Sales Plunge as Lincoln Gains

    JDN, for better or worse, is likely fine in the near future. Despite the myopic perspective offered by the author, Cadillac's team appears to be positioning itself longer-term, which means product-wise, marketing-wise, and more importantly, with a more global view in mind. Like many fans, I'm short on patience-as a Cadillac consumer and fan, not having a powerful (e.g., TT3.0 V6, at least), AWD, stylish luxury coupe (the ATS Coupe certainly does not fit the bill) is a downer, to put it mildly-but when I take a step back, the plan forwarded by JDN et al. may just work, particularly as we bear witness to it even in just two to three years. I think it would be bad for the make if JDN or any key players left before the fruits of their labor came to market. To have yet another suit come in and put his own stamp on the process at this point would be painful! And it would hurt the brand even more.

    Looking more broadly, sales of Cadillac saw a better-than-market growth of 30% to 8,568 units in May, 2016 in China. Cadillac saw strong demand-more than 2,400 units each−for both the XTS and ATS-L. And XT5 sales were 1,449 units in May, its first full month after its launch in China. Not too bad. And certainly a way to justify further investment in the car maker.

    Will Cadillac China (Cadillac's second largest market) surpass Lincoln USA (Lincoln's largest market) in 2016? I think there's more of a chance of that than certainly Lincoln surpassing Cadillac again in the US, current sales trajectories notwithstanding.

    While my next vehicle (and my husband's next luxury car) most certainly will not be Cadillacs, I am interested in returning to the brand when "JDN's" products hit the market in the next half decade... I think there's potential.

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    Re: Cadillac Sales Plunge as Lincoln Gains

    Quote Originally Posted by mbukukanyau View Post
    Cadillacs are expensive, Lincolns are gussied up Fords..
    We can fix this
    Cadillacs are expensive and nobody buys them, Lincolns are gussied up Fords that people buy.

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    Re: Cadillac Sales Plunge as Lincoln Gains

    Quote Originally Posted by mbukukanyau View Post
    Cadillacs are expensive, Lincolns are gussied up Fords..
    Please don't look at which Cadillac vehicles actually sell............


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    Re: Cadillac Sales Plunge as Lincoln Gains

    Cadillac and Lincoln are not after the same buyers.

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    Re: Cadillac Sales Plunge as Lincoln Gains

    Quote Originally Posted by georgewerr View Post
    We can fix this
    Cadillacs are expensive and nobody buys them, Lincolns are gussied up Fords that people buy.
    Let me fix this for you: Lincoln is a struggling rebadger who is barely making it without a soul.

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    Re: Cadillac Sales Plunge as Lincoln Gains

    Lincoln's sedans, MKZ and MKS, are only down 6 and 8% YTD. MKT is actually up 10%. Why do many of you like to shrug that off as nothing? Forget the new SUVs, the old Lincoln products are close to holding their own, whereas the highly lauded Cadillac cars are all down this year, from 15 to 24%. There is a truly massive problem at Cadillac that has nothing to do with CUVs. Why are the ancient and flawed MKS and MKT selling at a better rate relative to last year than everything but Escalade?
    Last edited by paul8488; 06-03-2016 at 10:56 PM.
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    Re: Cadillac Sales Plunge as Lincoln Gains

    Quote Originally Posted by airglow View Post
    Like the author of this article, I too wonder how much longer Johan de Nysschen has. His tenure at Cadillac has been a total and complete disaster thus far.

    http://247wallst.com/autos/2016/06/0...lincoln-gains/
    Lets think about this logically.... JDN has been at Cadillac long enough to bring zero products from start to production and for that reason lets blame it all on JDN and wonder when is he out......

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    Re: Cadillac Sales Plunge as Lincoln Gains

    Quote Originally Posted by paul8488 View Post
    Lincoln's sedans, MKZ and MKS, are only down 6 and 8% YTD. MKT is actually up 10%. Why do many of you like to shrug that off as nothing? Forget the new SUVs, the old Lincoln products are close to holding their own, whereas the highly lauded Cadillac cars are all down this year, from 15 to 24%. There is a truly massive problem at Cadillac that has nothing to do with CUVs. Why are the ancient and flawed MKS and MKT selling at a better rate relative to last year than everything but Escalade?
    Lincoln competes solely in the near luxury segment where it has brands like Buick and Acura to compete against.....

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    Re: Cadillac Sales Plunge as Lincoln Gains

    Look at the price difference between Chevrolet - Buick models, then look at the difference for Ford -Lincoln models. You can also look at the MSRPs themselves. It's actually quite simple to understand that Buick and Lincoln aren't selling in the same class, but some people don't want to.

    MKC $32,720, Escape $23,600, difference of $9120
    MKZ $35,010, Fusion $22,120, difference of $12,890

    Encore $24,065, Trax $20,300, difference of $3765
    Regal $27,065, Malibu $22,565, difference of $4500

    Tell me which you'd rather sell as an automaker.
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    Re: Cadillac Sales Plunge as Lincoln Gains

    Not a very sensible comparison.

    One brand is striving for a higher rung on the ladder.
    The other is content where it is at its lower position.
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    Re: Cadillac Sales Plunge as Lincoln Gains

    Quote Originally Posted by 63GrandSport001 View Post
    Lincoln competes solely in the near luxury segment where it has brands like Buick and Acura to compete against.....
    No, it doesn't. Did you see last months' comparison of 3 (well 4) luxury crossovers? The MKX stickered for more than the Lexus, Mercedes, and Cadillac (which wasn't actually tested, but was included for reference). Which Buick midsize crossover is selling for $64,000? The much larger Enclave MSRPs for less than $1000 more than the MKX, which puts Buick a full class down from where Lincoln is playing these days.
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    Re: Cadillac Sales Plunge as Lincoln Gains

    Quote Originally Posted by georgewerr View Post
    We can fix this
    Cadillacs are expensive and nobody buys them, Lincolns are gussied up Fords that people buy.
    How is it this comes up again and again at GMi. Everyone has short memories. More like selective memories.

    ELR shares a platform with Volt.
    XT5 shares a platform with Equinox (or new Acadia, not sure).
    XTS shares a platform with Impala.
    Escalade shares a platform with Tahoe and Suburban.

    And the ATS and CTS couldn't fly on their own platform, so GM had to add a high-volume Chevy that starts at $26,000 to make the numbers work. This. Is. How. The. Industry. Works.

    The ONLY unique platform at Cadillac is Omega. That's one. It's fantastic, but it'll take years to tell if they do anything else off of it, or make money with it. Cadillac and Lincoln are playing the exact same game, the difference is Lincoln is seeing sales increases (two years in a row, and last month, and YTD), whereas Cadillac isn't. Lots of things factor in, but that's the bottom line today.
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    Re: Cadillac Sales Plunge as Lincoln Gains

    Quote Originally Posted by dslay04 View Post
    Let me fix this for you: Lincoln is a struggling rebadger who is barely making it without a soul.
    Lovely hyperbole, what what is 'soul' in terms of an automobile? That's a feeling we attach to a car, but it's intangible. There is no way to measure or even define something like that. GM didn't add 73% more soul to their Cadillac models than Ford did to their Lincolns. Only the metrics at the end of the month count.
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    Re: Cadillac Sales Plunge as Lincoln Gains

    Quote Originally Posted by paul8488 View Post
    Lincoln's sedans, MKZ and MKS, are only down 6 and 8% YTD. MKT is actually up 10%. Why do many of you like to shrug that off as nothing? Forget the new SUVs, the old Lincoln products are close to holding their own, whereas the highly lauded Cadillac cars are all down this year, from 15 to 24%. There is a truly massive problem at Cadillac that has nothing to do with CUVs. Why are the ancient and flawed MKS and MKT selling at a better rate relative to last year than everything but Escalade?
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    Re: Cadillac Sales Plunge as Lincoln Gains

    Quote Originally Posted by paul8488 View Post
    Lovely hyperbole, what what is 'soul' in terms of an automobile? That's a feeling we attach to a car, but it's intangible. There is no way to measure or even define something like that.
    While this is true, it's also part of what allows higher luxury brands to charge more for a similar hunk of metal. Feelings lead to irrational purchases and make things like this possible:

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