Cadillac Sales Plunge as Lincoln Gains - Page 11

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Thread: Cadillac Sales Plunge as Lincoln Gains

  1. #151
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    Re: Cadillac Sales Plunge as Lincoln Gains

    Quote Originally Posted by birdsvsworms View Post
    That same focus resulted in Lincoln losing over 1/2 of its sales in fifteen years. It's also Buicks focus, except that Buick understands that limited differentiation means limited brand power and pricing potential. As a result Buick sells 10x the vehicles and is far more successful with less investment.
    Lincoln was all but written off, PAG was thought to be the way forward.


    Quote Originally Posted by 'Vette Dude View Post
    A lot of people here seem to think the only thing that defines luxury is tough styling, a stiff suspension, and big engine powering the rear wheels. It's not. I'm scared of what Cadillac is turning into, because it's completely out of touch with real reality (not GMI reality)
    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    I understand the safe approach, which is what Lincoln is doing and of course I get it which is why I wrote my post. I don't think "safe" is going to build Lincoln into a German rival and therefore the outsized profits will never come. And no, they don't need to be embarrassed that they aren't building an ATS or CTS competitor, they should be embarrassed because they aren't building Mercedes competitors as they are targeting luxury.

    And of course I'm arguing passion. If I want to read about profits, I'll go to the finance sections of the web. GMI is about passion, profits are icing on the cake but not the end all. Does anyone argue which football team is more profitable when fights about "their team" breaks out?

    And yes, Lincoln is growing, but slowly. A 10% increase on small volume is a small increase, so I don't call Lincoln's rise a smashing success, merely positive, but nothing to write home about. The Continental and MKZ (or S, can't remember) are being touted as a success and Cadillac crusher before they are really even on the pavement. And as Ed pointed out earlier in this thread, Cadillac uses shared platforms on many of its vehicles, so if we assume Lincoln is profitable, then Cadillac must be even more so as they sell a lot more vehicles on shared chassis.
    Is it the safe approach, or the smart approach?

    In the finance section you'll find tickers; GM & F

    So what is better, +10% on a smaller number or -10% on a larger number?

    Take away Cadillac's "experiments" and both brands are a lot closer to the same size; Lincoln doesn't have those extra sales, but they don't have those extras costs either.
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    Re: Cadillac Sales Plunge as Lincoln Gains

    Here are some of a comparison of Lincoln and Cadillac sales. I have some more detailed ones (including breakdowns of all vehicles for each brand) if anyone is interested.

    Lincoln/Cadillac sales:

    Sedan sales comparison:

    Utility sales comparison:


    Lincoln/Cadillac midsize sedans:


    Lincoln/Cadillac Fullsize sedans (obviously Conti sales haven't begun yet):

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    Re: Cadillac Sales Plunge as Lincoln Gains

    I believe every MKS sold is in the Detroit metro area because Ford offers its employees 80% off.
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  9. #154
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    Re: Cadillac Sales Plunge as Lincoln Gains

    Cadillac's problem at this point is styling, plain and simple. The cars don't look trendy. They don't look aggressive/confident. They don't look expensive. I mean you look at an ATS, what is it supposed to look like? It's this bland timid looking car in a segment where people want to flaunt their pretend wealth. Every other car in the segment looks more upscale. How are you supposed to overcome the badge cachet deficit when your styling looks even more timid than all of your superiorly badge competition?

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    Re: Cadillac Sales Plunge as Lincoln Gains

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Burns View Post
    Cadillac's problem at this point is styling, plain and simple. The cars don't look trendy. They don't look aggressive/confident. They don't look expensive. I mean you look at an ATS, what is it supposed to look like? It's this bland timid looking car in a segment where people want to flaunt their pretend wealth. Every other car in the segment looks more upscale. How are you supposed to overcome the badge cachet deficit when your styling looks even more timid than all of your superiorly badge competition?
    They're definitely trendy and they do look expensive, pretty too.

    However, they lack aggression, the one major trait that sells thousands of Escalades. It's disappointing for the "Break through" brand.
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  13. #156
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    Re: Cadillac Sales Plunge as Lincoln Gains

    It's pricing, package pricing and option pricing. Cadillac has forgotten that they need volume and to take sales from other manufacturers. Lincoln was on the ropes and now its not. Lost opportunity. For the owner who bought a luxury Cts in 2012 with a $42k MSRP to find the same car in 2016 to be $51k you can see why he's not going to buy another one. And it's gonna have a 2.0T not a V6. He probably won't understand the T is torquier, just that its a 4 banger.
    I don't get why caddy thinks they could move pricing up they way they did.

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    Re: Cadillac Sales Plunge as Lincoln Gains

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed753 View Post
    Is it the safe approach, or the smart approach?

    In the finance section you'll find tickers; GM & F

    So what is better, +10% on a smaller number or -10% on a larger number?

    Take away Cadillac's "experiments" and both brands are a lot closer to the same size; Lincoln doesn't have those extra sales, but they don't have those extras costs either.
    You are arguing the financial aspect, I'm talking passion. One is right for a business and the other is right for enthusiasts - that is my point and what we all have to bear in mind when we get frustrated. You aren't interested in the passion of the brand, I am interested in both and interchange what viewpoint I'm using.

    To answer your questions:

    Is it the safe approach, or the smart approach? Safe. Lincoln's approach guarantees minimal cost therefore minimal risk to the business. But in my opinion their approach will never allow them to grow to become a serious competitor to Mercedes and therefore never have a shot at those out-sized profits.

    In the finance section you'll find tickers; GM & F - I'm very familiar with them, that's where I get most of the stories I post.

    So what is better, +10% on a smaller number or -10% on a larger number? Growth is always better, but it must be taken in context. The context being their growth is still small.

    Take away Cadillac's "experiments" and both brands are a lot closer to the same size; Lincoln doesn't have those extra sales, but they don't have those extras costs either. Is Lincoln's approach any less of an experiment than Cadillac's? It costs less, but is equally gambling the future. GM wants to get away from being a one trick pony dependent on truck sales. Will Lincoln's approach ever get them off the F Series teat?

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  16. #158
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    Re: Cadillac Sales Plunge as Lincoln Gains

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    You are arguing the financial aspect, I'm talking passion. One is right for a business and the other is right for enthusiasts - that is my point and what we all have to bear in mind when we get frustrated. You aren't interested in the passion of the brand, I am interested in both and interchange what viewpoint I'm using.

    To answer your questions:

    Is it the safe approach, or the smart approach? Safe. Lincoln's approach guarantees minimal cost therefore minimal risk to the business. But in my opinion their approach will never allow them to grow to become a serious competitor to Mercedes and therefore never have a shot at those out-sized profits.

    In the finance section you'll find tickers; GM & F - I'm very familiar with them, that's where I get most of the stories I post.

    So what is better, +10% on a smaller number or -10% on a larger number? Growth is always better, but it must be taken in context. The context being their growth is still small.

    Take away Cadillac's "experiments" and both brands are a lot closer to the same size; Lincoln doesn't have those extra sales, but they don't have those extras costs either. Is Lincoln's approach any less of an experiment than Cadillac's? It costs less, but is equally gambling the future. GM wants to get away from being a one trick pony dependent on truck sales. Will Lincoln's approach ever get them off the F Series teat?
    Lincoln's approach is still an experiment, but a much more refined and thought out plan.
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    Re: Cadillac Sales Plunge as Lincoln Gains


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    Re: Cadillac Sales Plunge as Lincoln Gains

    Quote Originally Posted by bballr4567 View Post
    Volvo evolved??? They are a niche within the niche of luxury makers. Cadillac doesn't have direction? Sigh. More rants from the aging man on the lawn.
    It's the aging man who's trying to keep punks like you off his lawn

    Volvo review:

    http://www.motortrend.com/news/2017-...2227CBB8F3F3AA
    Last edited by steve333; 06-06-2016 at 02:34 PM.

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    Re: Cadillac Sales Plunge as Lincoln Gains

    Quote Originally Posted by 1999 White C5 Coupe View Post
    You are trolling with this - yet again.

    You have been corrected factually and completely time and time again and yet.....

    It's by end of 2020, not by the beginning.
    "From tech stocks to high gas prices, Goldman Sachs has engineered every major market manipulation since the Great Depression — and they're about to do it again."
    "The world's most powerful investment bank is a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money."
    "If America is circling the drain, Goldman Sachs has found a way to be that drain — " Matt Taibbi

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    Re: Cadillac Sales Plunge as Lincoln Gains

    "You Really feel Cadillac should have a Wrangler or a H1 in it's line up. I agree with GMC having these but not Cadillac."
    If they sold an entry level jeep wrangler type and brought the hummer back with good leasing! and added HUGE 1950s cadillac medallions to their nose, theyd sell like hotcakes,. Its the badge that sells it better than the GMCs; I do love the GMC chrome grilles though

  23. #163
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    Re: Cadillac Sales Plunge as Lincoln Gains

    Quote Originally Posted by Dequindre View Post
    Lincoln's approach is still an experiment, but a much more refined and thought out plan.
    How so?

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    Re: Cadillac Sales Plunge as Lincoln Gains

    Quote Originally Posted by AMERICA 123 View Post
    You are trolling with this - yet again.

    You have been corrected factually and completely time and time again and yet.....

    It's by end of 2020, not by the beginning.
    I dont think an extra 12 months is going to help hit the number.
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    Re: Cadillac Sales Plunge as Lincoln Gains

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    How so?
    It's lower investment, lower risk.
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