2020 Cadillac CT4-V Is Larger Outside, Smaller Inside Than ATS - Page 9

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Thread: 2020 Cadillac CT4-V Is Larger Outside, Smaller Inside Than ATS

  1. #121
    6.2 Liter LS3 V8 JimmyDiablo's Avatar
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    Re: 2020 Cadillac CT4-V Is Larger Outside, Smaller Inside Than ATS

    Quote Originally Posted by BORG View Post
    I mean...come on...you have to know these aren't going to sell well given that Cadillac customers largely want luxury utilities now, and certainly not smaller performance sedans. It's no small miracle GM keeps at it, they made it work for them. The German and Japanese shoppers still don't care what Detroit is doing and I don't see that changing here. GM thinks this is an intellectual exercise when in reality it's a cultural phenomenon.
    I think you are seriously underestimating the poser/"enthusiast" market size.

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  3. #122
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    Re: 2020 Cadillac CT4-V Is Larger Outside, Smaller Inside Than ATS

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyDiablo View Post
    I think you are seriously underestimating the poser/"enthusiast" market size.
    Not really, most of Cadillac's car buyers have moved on to other vehicles and not coming back, so I doubt these fresh vehicles, no matter how good will do much to increase sales of the two cars, Cadillac basically waited too long before executing them..

  4. #123
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    Re: 2020 Cadillac CT4-V Is Larger Outside, Smaller Inside Than ATS

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed753 View Post
    Someone else said CT4 is going to be cheaper and start at $30K (I know it wasn't you).




    Maybe the CT3 is a 2-door version of the CT4?
    I think CT2 was supposed to be that, not CT4. Basically replacing the Verano, but with a higher top end.

    I think CT3 was supposed to be a 2-door, yes. A2SL and A2A/BL were the codes for a supposed CT3/4 and A2LL was CT5.

    Quote Originally Posted by BORG View Post
    I mean...come on...you have to know these aren't going to sell well given that Cadillac customers largely want luxury utilities now, and certainly not smaller performance sedans. It's no small miracle GM keeps at it, they made it work for them. The German and Japanese shoppers still don't care what Detroit is doing and I don't see that changing here. GM thinks this is an intellectual exercise when in reality it's a cultural phenomenon.
    You're not wrong. Big problem for Cadillac is that their cars are no longer what people expect of them, and that they've spent so long continuously redefining what they mean by "Cadillac" from one generation to the next with varying degrees of success that it's impossible to reach a consensus where everyone is happy.

    Even V-series hasn't survived. I wonder if Escalade will? The rumor was that Cadillac was removing the name, but now it's that they're keeping it and may even name a "flagship" alongside it. Is it out of their own marketing confidence, or is it because they're confused by Lincoln's commitment?

    Does Cadillac have the balls to do anything first anymore?

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  7. #124
    R2-D2 Astromech Droid sfbreh's Avatar
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    Re: 2020 Cadillac CT4-V Is Larger Outside, Smaller Inside Than ATS

    Quote Originally Posted by jpd80 View Post
    Not really, most of Cadillac's car buyers have moved on to other vehicles and not coming back, so I doubt these fresh vehicles, no matter how good will do much to increase sales of the two cars, Cadillac basically waited too long before executing them..
    Unless I see a major change at Cadillac or a VERY impressing and compelling product that really defines the brand for me, I'm probably never buying a Cadillac again.

    I'm keeping a keen eye out, but have developed very sober expectations of Cadillac.

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  9. #125
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    Re: 2020 Cadillac CT4-V Is Larger Outside, Smaller Inside Than ATS

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyDiablo View Post
    I think you are seriously underestimating the poser/"enthusiast" market size.
    You're right. That is a massive market, no doubt, but the Cadillac brand just doesn't have the pull of BMW or MB, to sell an ATS to a poser the way BMW will sell a $299 320i or MB will sell a $299 CLA to somebody who wants it just to say they have a BMW or Mercedes.
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    Hidden Content Originally Posted by Greg.Botts Hidden Content
    LOL at all the FORD fans in this thread thinking they got a one up. This is the Yukon Denali and trust me it's going to blow away the Navigator. Escalade is gunning for RR/Bentley level of interiors and beyond. I've talked to someone about this on another site that confirmed it Navigator isn't even being bench-marked at Cadillac too low for them.
    ^GOLD^

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    Re: 2020 Cadillac CT4-V Is Larger Outside, Smaller Inside Than ATS

    Quote Originally Posted by Envoy4Life View Post
    You're right. That is a massive market, no doubt, but the Cadillac brand just doesn't have the pull of BMW or MB, to sell an ATS to a poser the way BMW will sell a $299 320i or MB will sell a $299 CLA to somebody who wants it just to say they have a BMW or Mercedes.
    In BMW's case, the G20 320i is not offered in the U.S. market. The promotional lease offer for G20 330i currently is $349/mo for 36 months. Not surprisingly, this offer is quite misleading because BMW of NA stipulates a $4,000 down payment. Who in their right mind would apply any down payment on a car lease, let alone $4,000?
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  12. #127
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    Re: 2020 Cadillac CT4-V Is Larger Outside, Smaller Inside Than ATS

    Quote Originally Posted by gkr778 View Post
    In BMW's case, the G20 320i is not offered in the U.S. market. The promotional lease offer for G20 330i currently is $349/mo for 36 months. Not surprisingly, this offer is quite misleading because BMW of NA stipulates a $4,000 down payment. Who in their right mind would apply any down payment on a car lease, let alone $4,000?
    Oh yeah that's right, BMW renamed them to 330i/M340i, good catch. Damn names lol.

    But yeah $4,000 across a 36 month lease is something like $111 a month. So in reality, that $349 lease is $460+, and then add in taxes, fees, etc. and you're looking at $500 a month...

    That's how they get you haha.
    Current:

    2016 Cadillac CTS4 2.0T Performance

    2006 GMC Envoy SLT 4x4

    Hidden Content Originally Posted by Greg.Botts Hidden Content
    LOL at all the FORD fans in this thread thinking they got a one up. This is the Yukon Denali and trust me it's going to blow away the Navigator. Escalade is gunning for RR/Bentley level of interiors and beyond. I've talked to someone about this on another site that confirmed it Navigator isn't even being bench-marked at Cadillac too low for them.
    ^GOLD^

    Hidden Content

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  14. #128
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    Re: 2020 Cadillac CT4-V Is Larger Outside, Smaller Inside Than ATS

    Quote Originally Posted by jpd80 View Post
    Not really, most of Cadillac's car buyers have moved on to other vehicles and not coming back, so I doubt these fresh vehicles, no matter how good will do much to increase sales of the two cars, Cadillac basically waited too long before executing them..
    Simply untrue. Market changes over time. Audi collapsed in the US at one point and totally rebuilt it's image. One hot auto can change everything.

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  16. #129
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    Re: 2020 Cadillac CT4-V Is Larger Outside, Smaller Inside Than ATS

    Quote Originally Posted by jpd80 View Post
    Not really, most of Cadillac's car buyers have moved on to other vehicles and not coming back, so I doubt these fresh vehicles, no matter how good will do much to increase sales of the two cars, Cadillac basically waited too long before executing them..
    Not really, most Cadillac Buyers cannot afford them, and do not want Grandma's ride Lexus just yet

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    Re: 2020 Cadillac CT4-V Is Larger Outside, Smaller Inside Than ATS

    Quote Originally Posted by LowRider View Post
    Simply untrue. Market changes over time. Audi collapsed in the US at one point and totally rebuilt it's image. One hot auto can change everything.
    It is true for Cadillac's cars.
    ATS, CTS and CT6 sales were barely 3,000/mth combined. Add in the XTS which is mostly fleet sales, that becomes less than 6,000/mth. There is no way that this make over is going to escalate sales to the levels some expect.

    and if you want an example of how lost Cadillac is, just go and try
    to listen to Cadillac head of marketing explain Cadillac's new products and directions....it's cold, un-impassioned stuff, they just don't get who buys Cadillac and why.

    Quote Originally Posted by mbukukanyau View Post
    Not really, most Cadillac Buyers cannot afford them, and do not want Grandma's ride Lexus just yet
    As you know, I was responding to Jimmy Diablo's specific comment regarding the poser/"enthusiast" market size, so will answer your response in relation to that discussion..

    The numbers of those poseur/enthusiast buyers remaining true to Cadillac cars are now just so low that chasing them is becoming increasingly harder to do. The euro brands draw sales globally and don't just rely on the US market for justification, so adding or not adding higher end enthusiast versions is probably easier.

    What's left is more middle of the road buyers who probably aren't totally obsessed with how a vehicle performs at the limits but just want a kick ass performer that brings a smile to the face.
    Last edited by jpd80; 06-09-2019 at 03:04 AM.

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    Re: 2020 Cadillac CT4-V Is Larger Outside, Smaller Inside Than ATS

    Quote Originally Posted by sfbreh View Post
    Does Cadillac have the balls to do anything first anymore?
    Yes they do!...It just happens to be 10 years after everyone else does it.

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  21. #132
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    Re: 2020 Cadillac CT4-V Is Larger Outside, Smaller Inside Than ATS

    Quote Originally Posted by mbukukanyau View Post
    most Cadillac Buyers cannot afford them
    New Cadillacs? For sure. Most buyers of new Cadillac automobiles probably do not adhere to Financial Samurai's guideline of limiting the purchase price (or capitalized cost on a lease) for a car to 10% or less of annual income. There's a variant of the guideline based on net worth as well - no more than 5% of net worth spent on a car.

    Last edited by gkr778; 06-09-2019 at 12:26 AM.
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    Re: 2020 Cadillac CT4-V Is Larger Outside, Smaller Inside Than ATS

    Quote Originally Posted by criticalmass View Post
    From a packaging standpoint ATS was dog crap. Hello dog crap 2.0...which translates to no increased sales.
    They both have Cobalt/ION dimensions. Except the F/R headroom is better in both of those

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    Re: 2020 Cadillac CT4-V Is Larger Outside, Smaller Inside Than ATS

    Quote Originally Posted by sfbreh View Post
    I think CT2 was supposed to be that, not CT4. Basically replacing the Verano, but with a higher top end.

    I think CT3 was supposed to be a 2-door, yes. A2SL and A2A/BL were the codes for a supposed CT3/4 and A2LL was CT5.



    You're not wrong. Big problem for Cadillac is that their cars are no longer what people expect of them, and that they've spent so long continuously redefining what they mean by "Cadillac" from one generation to the next with varying degrees of success that it's impossible to reach a consensus where everyone is happy.

    Even V-series hasn't survived. I wonder if Escalade will? The rumor was that Cadillac was removing the name, but now it's that they're keeping it and may even name a "flagship" alongside it. Is it out of their own marketing confidence, or is it because they're confused by Lincoln's commitment?

    Does Cadillac have the balls to do anything first anymore?
    Putting a trunk on an Escalade and selling it as their $125,000 flagship would probably do that.

    Or did the Bentley Benghazi or whatever beat them to that one as well ?

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    Re: 2020 Cadillac CT4-V Is Larger Outside, Smaller Inside Than ATS

    Quote Originally Posted by Z284ever View Post
    Maybe. Or it might be a 2+2 4 door coupe.
    That's what the CT4 already is interior wise. Rear headroom is crap. Anything less than 38" is getting into misery territory for anyone sitting back there.

    You mean a CT3 with worse space utilization ? Like a Fiesta ?

    Perhaps attempting that 4 door coupe BS on a Spark will play with the bottom feeding luxury market poseur crowd.
    Last edited by Citation84; 07-09-2019 at 03:01 PM.

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