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Bob Lutz Discusses Park Avenue; GMInsidenews Makes National TV!

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#1 · (Edited)
Bob Lutz Discusses Park Avenue; GMInsidenews Makes TV!
Wow. Watch as Mr. Bob Lutz gives a great, lengthy response to my question on the Park Avenue and hints at a "Return to true Luxury" for Buick. Download show 1119 HERE!, watch about 14:45 minutes in.


Quote: "We are studying the low volume import (of the Park Avenue).... to reestablish the Buick Flagship. In terms of ride & handling and interior appointments, it would return Buick truly to the Luxury class, where Buick actually belongs."

"There was a meeting (where the Lucerne was chosen over the Park Avenue by some Buick Dealers comparing clay models of both) --- Now I'm hearing from many Buick Dealers saying 'I wasn't at that meeting!' " (laughter)


Also note that the Chinese SLS is mentioned by Matt Delorenzo of Road and Track. And Bob Lutz mentions his future with GM. Bob also did not gush about the Super Buicks. He was very straightforward and didn't spin at all. GM Daewoo & Global Engineering, and GM's turnaround were also discussed. It was an interview well worth the wait, I think!

According to John McElroy's opening this week, Autoline Detroit's Server crashed last week under the load of all of the people going to see the "Extra" video clip that did not end up including Bob Lutz' comments on the Park Avenue. But the guys at Blue Sky Productions more than made up for that by broadcasting the show live, mentioning GMInsideNews (and my screen-name) to anyone with the Speed TV cable channel nationwide!


Check the archives for last week's show (and this week's show into the future) for more Bob Lutz bare-knuckle action!

And write a thank you to John McElroy if you will, kudos to him for recognizing and representing we the GM enthusiasts on the web! - Ming

 
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#4 · (Edited)
Excellent Ming, just excellent. I think it's fantastic that McElroy mentioned you AND the site on the show!

Well done my friend.

BTW, McElroy is DEAD ON with this analysis at the beginning of the segment regarding Congress and fuel economy standards --- Lutz has been saying this FOREVER and folks would be wise to listen in. If I have to hear one more person from CA scream CAFE standards or any bureaucract in DC cry about emissions, I'll have a fit. Instead they shoudl look to Europe for what they do and see how things need to be sorted out. (about the only time I will advocate we mimick anything our European cousins do :-D --- J/K guys..mostly LOL)
 
#5 ·
Ming said:
"We are studying the low volume import (of the Park Avenue).... to reestablish the Buick Flagship. In terms of ride & handling and interior appointments, it would return Buick truly to the Luxury class, where Buick actually belongs."
Done correctly (importation of select, more upscale models differentiated appropriately from the upcoming G8), this could work and add a much-needed boost to the Buick name. Done as a weak rebadge (again, in comparison to the G8) and priced too high, it will reinforce the notion that GM cannot properly leverage its fantastic global resources.

And I'm sure no one here really is suprised that GMI made national news. Props to the folks who make the site work!
 
#6 · (Edited)
What did I tell you guys? Buick is back and GM/Lutz are serious about it. Great going Ming!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out what GMI said about the future of Buick and it's return to the luxury position it belongs:
GMInside Exclusive: The Exciting Future of Buick
 
#9 · (Edited)
great post... great video

Bob knows the Super Buicks are crap and the Park Avenue kicks butt

Whomever was in this dealer BUICK Focus group he mentioned and has been talked about here, should be stripped of their dealerships permanently and publicly humiliated on Buick's website.

Theses are the idiots that cost us a good looking and great quality car in the United States. Thanks for nothing!

If GM is serious about focus groups, how about gathering up some car people like, say GMI members ;) Dealers are NOT a good choice for determining what a vehicles a brand should contain. They are hardly an objective starting point.
 
#12 ·
Good stuff, Ming!

Now we see some of GM's reasoning instead of armchairing it.
 
#13 ·
So Buick dealers essentially voted for a G-body FWD LOOOOONG front overhang beast instead of the stunning Park Ave? I hope thay all go out of business.
 
#14 ·
Oh man! I want to know who the idiot was that wanted a FWD Buick over a RWD.

And it's very disappointing to hear that the SLS for sure wont be coming to the US. Cadillac really needs a premium sedan. However the possibility of the Park Ave coming over as a "low volume import" is certainly great news.
 
#15 ·
PsychoBueller said:
So Buick dealers essentially voted for a G-body FWD LOOOOONG front overhang beast instead of the stunning Park Ave? I hope thay all go out of business.
exactly.. it's time for some pimp slapping :mad:

This proves Buick dealers, or at the ones that were brought it, have COMPLETELY lost touch with what their brand is supposed to represent.

It is time for a major housecleaning at Buick
 
#16 ·
mgescuro said:
Wait wait wait wait!

What exactly is the problem with the SLS??? It wasn't brought to the US with the Chinese interior because of the side impact issue???

THEN KEEP THE STS THE SAME SIZE AND DROP IN THE INTERIOR!!!
First of all, yay for Ming and GMI!

I think Lutz has some of the right views, he just needs some time to get things going at a good pace. Also, just drop the SLS interior into the STS and NO ONE will complain then!
 
#17 ·
PsychoBueller said:
So Buick dealers essentially voted for a G-body FWD LOOOOONG front overhang beast instead of the stunning Park Ave? I hope thay all go out of business.
Not sure if any of you guys work for Buick dealers but I would have to say they know what is going to sell and what is not. If it weren't for the dealers Buick may already be on the ash heap of automotive history. GM is in the business of manufacturing cars. Dealers are in the business of selling cars. GM has tried to do both in the past and it has bitten them in the ass each time. They need to stick to making cars and let the dealers sell them.

Not saying GM should always listen to the dealers but they need to remember the sales side of things is ultimately in the dealers hands.
 
#18 ·
I want to know how the Chinese Park Avenue compares in size to the Lucerne. If it's not significantly larger why bother? Seriously, why? Aside from rear wheel drive, a decent looking front-end, and some luxury appointments I really don't see this car making any difference here. Do you really think rear wheel drive is what Buick buyers crave? Are you all hot for its optional 250 horsepower? My guess is it's the blue-tooth more than anything that's got everyone so upset. :) Sales, not fantasies, are whats going to save Buick. As it sits, I wouldn't want to do anything other than sit in the backseat for a bit. And I doubt most American Lexus or Infiniti buyers would either. Is it better than most Buicks? In a lot of (okay, almost all) respects yes. Heck yes. But IMO, GM is going to have to do way better here if they have any desire to stop Buick's date with death.

Congrats for getting anything out of Bob Lutz though. You're the first person outside of the board room GM has probably ever listened to!
 
#19 · (Edited)
2648562 said:
I want to know how the Chinese Park Avenue compares in size to the Lucerne. If it's not significantly larger why bother?
Well why does Lexus have the LS and GS? The main difference between those 2 vehicles isn't the size, it's the class level. The LS is Lexus's flagship that goes all out in refinement and features.

That's what the Park Ave would be for Buick. Although I'm not sure how well it could compete. The new LS really is amazing...

His smirk when he said the name aggravated me a little bit, but oh well.
Yeah me too. It gave a very "oh those silly kids and their websites" impression.
 
#20 ·
Great work, Ming. Too bad he referred to the site as "GM InsiderNews." His smirk when he said the name aggravated me a little bit, but oh well.

As for the content of the interview, I only watched from the 14:45 point until the end of that segment, but I like the idea of offering a RWD Buick flagship based on the Chinese Park Avenue. Would US buyers accept that car if it was built in China, or would they insist that it be built in Australia instead? Lutz wants some separation in pricing; Australian labor costs versus Chinese should make the price separation easier. Just PLEASE don't de-content it!
2648562 said:
I want to know how the Chinese Park Avenue compares in size to the Lucerne. If it's not significantly larger why bother? Seriously, why? Aside from rear wheel drive, a decent looking front-end, and some luxury appointments I really don't see this car making any difference here. Do you really think rear wheel drive is what Buick buyers crave? Are you all hot for its optional 250 horsepower? My guess is it's the blue-tooth more than anything that's got everyone so upset. :) Sales, not fantasies, are whats going to save Buick. As it sits, I wouldn't want to do anything other than sit in the backseat for a bit. And I doubt most American Lexus or Infiniti buyers would either. Is it better than most Buicks? In a lot of (okay, almost all) respects yes. Heck yes. But IMO, GM is going to have to do way better here if they have any desire to stop Buick's date with death.

Congrats for getting anything out of Bob Lutz though. You're the first person outside of the board room GM has probably ever listened to!
Size does not necessarily equal luxury, or even a superior product. This is something that GM is still having trouble understanding, as evidenced by the CTS that was supposed to compete with the 3-series BMW, but actually is 5-series sized. They're hopefully starting to "get" this with the BLS becoming the 3-series competitor instead in a few years. But have you ever noticed how in most cases, the GM offering is larger and heavier than its competitors?? Not everyone is looking for the biggest car for the money! I don't care if the Park Avenue is two inches longer - as long as its interior is nicer, it rides/handles better, and has a more powerful engine than the Lucerne, then it's not going to step on the Lucerne's toes. And if it does, the Buick dealers should be happy, because they'd be selling a higher margin vehicle, thus making more money. If the Chinese Park Avenue has a 250 horsepower optional engine (which I do not know for sure), that does not mean that a US import would. I guarantee it would have a V8, and probably standard, to set it apart from both the Lucerne and the similar Pontiac G8 that would be sold in the same showroom in most situations.
 
#21 · (Edited)
I-Love-Pontiac said:
Well why does Lexus have the LS and GS? The main difference between those 2 vehicles isn't the size, it's the class level. The LS is Lexus's flagship that goes all out in refinement and features.

That's what the Park Ave would be for Buick. Although I'm not sure how well it could compete. The new LS really is amazing...
You're right, Lexus could crush it in their sleep. And sadly, it is in a better class. But then again, Buick has shown in the past that they don't need every luxury appointment under the sun to sell well. I just think as far as a halo car goes (which is all it could be).... it's pretty weak. Again, I don't know what they need (Buick buyers are a strange breed). After seeing this and thinking about it the last few weeks, I feel pretty strongly that Buick needs more than a modern-day Catera though. A larger than large DTS level Buick might sell. But then again, what was said about margins makes sense too. Whatever they decide, I hope there isn't much Chinese about it. I'm not too fond of people that eat dogs. :)
 
#25 ·
Bob Lutz is my favorite corporate car guy.
 
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