Which Sedan Should The US Police Drive?

[mikmak]

Originally Posted by FrankRizzo

Why not a purpose-built police car?
Carbon Motors

I should have book marked my first response to this^^^. It has been discussed quite a few times. The biggest down fall is a space frame chassis, which although provides good protection:weight ratio, it is extremely expensive and difficult to repair, which would probably result in whole assembly replacement when sustaining damage. Whilst Carbon Motors, in their assessments have stated that their vehicle is less expensive of the full life of the platform, there was no mention (that I could see) of the number of chassis estimated to need replacement throughout the life of each unit.

[syr74]

Crown Vic still makes the best cruiser since BOF still gives that car a level of durability uni-body cars cannot realistically match.

[mang01]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

As far as a total all around car, the Caprice is a great idea. It fills the need for a large vehicle, offers world class engines and transmissions, great handling and ride, and parts could be readily available using Camaro parts as replacements.

Yes, yes, yes, yes and no.
Well, not really, not too many parts actually interchange with Camaro.

Originally Posted by 888GT#31

Caprice = normal patrols...........Commodore SS-V = high speed pursuit.

Good in theory - in practice splitting the numbers between two somewhat different models probably goes against the volumes necessary to make the idea work in the first place - the extra size added weight of the bigger car probably doesn't add up to much at high speed.
More interesting woud be to use the Sportswagon for pursuits but the same arguments I just made still apply - except it has added carrying capacity so utility value and all those G8 owners/fanciers who always said they wanted a wagon could get the front clip and attach it, so selling them off afterwards could be easy.

Originally Posted by PAULSTS1

Because of the economy and the relative low price, I'd pick the Dodge Charger.
The Holden unless GM decided to offer the car for sale in the marketplace would be too expensive. If they subsidized it they would lose money.

Obviously it's the Holden they're about to announce (as a Chev); where else will they get a large enough cheap enough RWD GM sedan from? And equally obviously it won't be too expensive and lose money just on police volume - even if the project broke even it increases volume at an underutilised plant which means fixed costs can be spread over the total build, reducing cost per unit. Already Holdens are paying assembly line workers 1.5 week's pay for 1 week' work (and 1 week off). This is what's costing them money so if they can reduce it by increasing volume then it's going to be worthwhile.

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by mang01

Yes, yes, yes, yes and no.
Well, not really, not too many parts actually interchange with Camaro.

Sure they do, at least the front end parts do. While Camaro's tie rods, strut bushings, an ball joints are bigger, they can and will probably replace the stuff found in Aussie Zeta's.
While Camaro cannot be built on VE's production line, they do share parts.

[MAK]

Originally Posted by fp115

This new brand that will be announced Monday will hopefully make it to this poll

What NEW brand?

[Dr. Show-Me]

The argument for producing a cop car from Oz goes something like this: Holden planned to produce 30+k G8s per year, with the number produced reducing their per unit cost. To make up the volume lost in Pontiac closing, they would need similar production to get the planned unit cost. Therefore, 30+k G8-based cars are needed, and they are produced as G8-based cop cars.
With the VE Commodore being updated to VF, the mce is the ideal time to update the platform for North American production. Americans want their cop cars to be American, so GM can announce the cop car will be produced first in Oz, and in North America after a year or so.
A business plan for North American production:
To produce cars with the lowest per unit cost, the factory must be fully utilized. GM would rely on keeping a NA plant busy producing zeta products, which the Camaro doesn't do. Therefore, they would need to add zeta production to add to the Camaro's total. If the Camaro sells 100,000 models a year and the factory can make 300,000, there would need to be 200,000 additional product for lowest per unit cost. Next you add 30,000 zeta-based police cars, bringing the total to 130,000 a year. Then you open up the market with 100,000 Impalas a year for consumers, bringing the total to 230,000 a year. Add in 20,000 El Caminos (G8ST) for 250,000. You could add an additional 25,000Chevelle/Monte Carlo's, bringing the total to 275,000. You could use knock-down kits to add 40,000 Buick Park Avenues, bringing the total to 315,000, exceeding "full capacity." Each car would have a targeted amount, which would vary by actual consumer demand. Using the same scenario, you could add a Riviera, and El Dorado, a DT7, and so on.
So it starts with police car production.....

[Neanderthal]

For one thing, there is no "US Police."
Every agency from the FBI to Andy & Opie has different needs and different budgets.

Originally Posted by FrankRizzo

Why not a purpose-built police car?
Carbon Motors

Cabron car con job has been discussed at length in other threads at GMI. It's a bad idea, starting with it costing twice as much...

[Neanderthal]

Originally Posted by Dr. Show-Me

The argument for producing a cop car from Oz goes something like this: Holden planned to produce 30+k G8s per year, with the number produced reducing their per unit cost. To make up the volume lost in Pontiac closing, they would need similar production to get the planned unit cost. Therefore, 30+k G8-based cars are needed, and they are produced as G8-based cop cars.
With the VE Commodore being updated to VF, the mce is the ideal time to update the platform for North American production. Americans want their cop cars to be American, so GM can announce the cop car will be produced first in Oz, and in North America after a year or so.
A business plan for North American production:
To produce cars with the lowest per unit cost, the factory must be fully utilized. GM would rely on keeping a NA plant busy producing zeta products, which the Camaro doesn't do. Therefore, they would need to add zeta production to add to the Camaro's total. If the Camaro sells 100,000 models a year and the factory can make 300,000, there would need to be 200,000 additional product for lowest per unit cost. Next you add 30,000 zeta-based police cars, bringing the total to 130,000 a year. Then you open up the market with 100,000 Impalas a year for consumers, bringing the total to 230,000 a year. Add in 20,000 El Caminos (G8ST) for 250,000. You could add an additional 25,000Chevelle/Monte Carlo's, bringing the total to 275,000. You could use knock-down kits to add 40,000 Buick Park Avenues, bringing the total to 315,000, exceeding "full capacity." Each car would have a targeted amount, which would vary by actual consumer demand. Using the same scenario, you could add a Riviera, and El Dorado, a DT7, and so on.
So it starts with police car production.....

Looks good.

You're hired.

Report to Bob Lutz @ 0800 Oct. 11.

[King Riffle]

Originally Posted by member12

Do they need four wheel drive or something?

They are moving to them down here too, but they are 2wd. I'm sure it's more durable than the average sedan given it's truck chassis, but they can't be safer for high speed driving.

I want to see the new Taurus interceptor package....though I doubt that they'll be using the SHO engine.

+1. I wonder if they'll go all out with a column shift.

Originally Posted by FrankRizzo

Why not a purpose-built police car?
Carbon Motors

Because police departments aren't able to win the lottery.



I'm gonna have to go with the Impala here. Wisconsin's police departments seem to love them, and shipping a cop cars halfway around the Earth just seems like a waste.

[fp115]

Originally Posted by MAK

What NEW brand?

You will find out on Monday.

[BBDOS CV8]

Originally Posted by syr74

Crown Vic still makes the best cruiser since BOF still gives that car a level of durability uni-body cars cannot realistically match.

Err, no.



Notice the railway tracks incorporated into the chassis, and triangulated into the passenger compartment. All the red bits are high-strength, with ultra-high strength on the A-pillars through to the roof. This is the ute, but the sedan is the same underneath. That's one reason why it's weighty.

I've been in the back of a Crown Vic. You can feel the body moving on the mounts under sideways G's over bumps (New York cab driver over concrete overpass onramp expansion joints) and the chassis twist as a result. It's a tin box rivetted to springy longitudinal c - beams - but neither gives strength to the other. Once the bushes get some slop = judder/shudder city.



Here's the VE after ANCAP pole and offset testing. Occupants all rated as survived. It gained five stars with 33.45 out of 37 points.

[Dr. Show-Me]

The argument for bof is the easier replacement of damaged parts, since they aren't structural. A unibody is substantially structural and would require more extensive expensive repairs.
Report to Bob? It would be fun, but I'd hate to have to play the politics involved.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by BBDOS CV8

Err, no.

Notice the railway tracks incorporated into the chassis, and triangulated into the passenger compartment. All the red bits are high-strength, with ultra-high strength on the A-pillars through to the roof. This is the ute, but the sedan is the same underneath. That's one reason why it's weighty.

I've been in the back of a Crown Vic. You can feel the body moving on the mounts under sideways G's over bumps (New York cab driver over concrete overpass onramp expansion joints) and the chassis twist as a result. It's a tin box rivetted to springy longitudinal c - beams - but neither gives strength to the other. Once the bushes get some slop = judder/shudder city.

Here's the VE after ANCAP pole and offset testing. Occupants all rated as survived. It gained five stars with 33.45 out of 37 points.

Crown Vic safety ratings are and have long been very impressive scoring a maximum five stars in every NHTSA impact rating test. As for the problem with your assessment of the practicality of a Holden as a police cruiser, unfortunately you have reviewed everything but what makes these cars practical for this application.

Crown Victoria is more durable in rough duty applications, due primarily to the BOF structure you criticize for not providing BMW like stiffness and handling which, ironically, really isn't important here. Repairs are easier and cheaper because of that BOF design and the cars ability to traverse rough terrain without damaging the chassis or other components is likewise better. I can treat a Crown Vic a lot like a would treat a traditional pickup and the car will survive surprisingly well. A G8 is a bit less likely to be as pleased with the hard handed approach.

Again, since Starsky and Hutch/Mad Max style high speed pursuits are generally frowned upon in the United States the BMW like handling the Crown Vic lacks isn't really an issue. Ford could stand to update the power a bit, but nothing the Holden/G8 brings to the table makes up for what that car lacks compared to the CV. Factor in the reality that the CV is substantially cheaper both up front and long term and the Holden is just pointless.

[PAULSTS1]

Originally Posted by Dr. Show-Me

The argument for producing a cop car from Oz goes something like this: Holden planned to produce 30+k G8s per year, with the number produced reducing their per unit cost. To make up the volume lost in Pontiac closing, they would need similar production to get the planned unit cost. Therefore, 30+k G8-based cars are needed, and they are produced as G8-based cop cars.
With the VE Commodore being updated to VF, the mce is the ideal time to update the platform for North American production. Americans want their cop cars to be American, so GM can announce the cop car will be produced first in Oz, and in North America after a year or so.
A business plan for North American production:
To produce cars with the lowest per unit cost, the factory must be fully utilized. GM would rely on keeping a NA plant busy producing zeta products, which the Camaro doesn't do. Therefore, they would need to add zeta production to add to the Camaro's total. If the Camaro sells 100,000 models a year and the factory can make 300,000, there would need to be 200,000 additional product for lowest per unit cost. Next you add 30,000 zeta-based police cars, bringing the total to 130,000 a year. Then you open up the market with 100,000 Impalas a year for consumers, bringing the total to 230,000 a year. Add in 20,000 El Caminos (G8ST) for 250,000. You could add an additional 25,000Chevelle/Monte Carlo's, bringing the total to 275,000. You could use knock-down kits to add 40,000 Buick Park Avenues, bringing the total to 315,000, exceeding "full capacity." Each car would have a targeted amount, which would vary by actual consumer demand. Using the same scenario, you could add a Riviera, and El Dorado, a DT7, and so on.
So it starts with police car production.....

Fritz had better, watch out, someone's usurping his job! I'll buy that business plan.

[AirCleaner]

The Crown Victoria Police Interceptor, The Ford Expedition, Chevy Tahoe ..