Rate GM's Handling of Cadillac

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

True.

Although I do think it should be RWD, and if Cadillac wants to re-do the DTS, then they should keep the DTS nameplate and make the XTS a 7-series fighter.

I guess we'll just have to see.

If GM wants to redo the DTS, then they can give it to Buick where the XTS belongs.......

[MiosoBosa]

Originally Posted by jmlee0695

How can you give the XTS a D before seeing it or knowing anything other than it'll be on E II?

I was confused on that one as well. Is the XTS already out? Are some of your GM engineers who have already driven it if it is not?

Isn't the Audi A8 FWD/AWD? I know in Europe the A8 comes in FWD. The SRX is FWD/AWD and is considered by most reviews that I have seen to be as great a handler as BMW's X5, even with the dog of a 3.0L running the wheels.

[goblue]

D

I'd give them an F, but the CTS lineup is worthy of an A. Every other vehicle is a failure.

The new SRX is part luxury and part upstaged by Ford. FAIL
The Escalade hasn't evolved and has not been capitalized on. D
STS - Lots of potential, but none seen. FAIL
DTS - Considering they are dropping it, FAIL
XLR - Again, no evolution or improvement, FAIL
ATS - Believe it when I see it
XTS - FWD? FAIL

[Quixote88]

I'll follow Fenwick's model by model approach:
1.CTS: A, CTS-V: A+, The CTS is Cadillac at this point... Fortunately, it's an exceptional model in all variants, in my opinion. I cannot wait to see the Sport Wagon and Coupe variants on the road!

2.STS: C+, The STS was a decent car when it debuted, but they never built on it or differentiated it enough from the CTS... It was also more bland in styling than its slightly smaller/cheaper Sigma brother, the CTS. It did not help that Cadillac never advertised the STS after the first model year...

3.DTS: B-, In all honesty, I don't think the DTS is a bad car. It is the last of the "classic" Cadillacs; A big cruiser that offers a long list of amenities... It caters to the "old school" Cadillac buyer, even if it's FWD... It does what it's expected to do. However, if the DTS was supposed to fill the STS slot in the marketplace, I would've given the model a D- as it's far from being a modern luxury sedan.

4.XTS & ATS: INCOMPLETE, I will not judge a vehicle I've never seen or had the opportunity to drive.

5.XLR: B-, The lost opportunity... Another model that could've been a game changer. It was good when introduced, but again they never built on the initial model... Other than adding a supercharged variant... The interior should've been improved... Now it's gone. But it's still my favorite car design of this decade.

6.SRX: C+, The first gen was a good car, then they improved the interior and continued to win comparison tests... However, the SRX never caught on with the general public... Most likely because of the "raised wagon" look. Now the SRX is built for mass consumption, but is dogged by a weak base engine. Hopefully, Cadillac addresses this complaint and the SRX catches on with the public.

7.Escalade: A, The Escalade is THE luxury truck to own in the American market. I understand that many feel that Cadillac should not have a model that is essentially a BOF truck... I'm not one of them. Sure the Escalade is a dolled up Tahoe, but they did a great job dolling it up! They do come loaded and are big, brash, powerful, and in your face... Everything a Cadillac should be! They sell well for what they are and are profitable for GM. Win/Win

[jlmartin99]

Cadillac Rating “A” for luxury products for purchase meeting my requirements and service from my Cadillac dealer.

My view of Cadillac today from a luxury buyer, Cadillac owner and experience with Cadillac events has been excellent. My rating of Cadillac luxury models I have reviewed or evaluated for purchase are as follows:

Rating 2009 Cadillac models for purchase.

“A” - CTS, CTS-V
“C” - DTS, DTS Platinum
“A” - STS, STS Platinum, STS-V
“B” - SRX
“A” - XLR Platinum, XLR-V
“A” - Escalade, Escalade Platinum
“A” - Escalade ESV, Escalade ESV Platinum
“A” - Escalade EXT

JLM

[BIGDON19]

Gm I gave you a D only because the CTS is such a good car. You are already in debt so what do yo need the beaners for?
XTS- Should be a S-Class killer. Next gen LS motor, AWD only with all the bell and whistles. Quit BSing and build the thing.
DTS/STS- Keep one of the names and give people the option of a larger car in comparisn to the CTS. I'm 6'3 280 but I dont make S class cash.
CTS- Great car but you must stay on top fo the updates.
ATS- Cant come soon enough. should sale like hotcakes. Should have a deisel option for global sales.
SRX-Should have kept it based off the CTS with the 3.6. Good luck with this one.
Escalade- I love them, but the little things are missing and with all GMT7,8, and 900's, the middle row does not have enough leg room. You have to bring your foot back behind teh B-pillar to get out of the door. Also, you have lost sale because of no flat folding 3rd row.

[MiosoBosa]

Originally Posted by jlmartin99

Cadillac Rating “A” for luxury products for purchase meeting my requirements and service from my Cadillac dealer.

My view of Cadillac today from a luxury buyer, Cadillac owner and experience with Cadillac events has been excellent. My rating of Cadillac luxury models I have reviewed or evaluated for purchase are as follows:

Rating 2009 Cadillac models for purchase.

“A” - CTS, CTS-V
“C” - DTS, DTS Platinum
“A” - STS, STS Platinum, STS-V
“B” - SRX
“A” - XLR Platinum, XLR-V
“A” - Escalade, Escalade Platinum
“A” - Escalade ESV, Escalade ESV Platinum
“A” - Escalade EXT

JLM

Actually if I were to rate the actual cars I would come away with these same results. I thought though that the question was in reference to Cadillac's overall management.

The CTS-group is stellar thus far. The car is an absolute hit, lacking only one major amenity that would propel it above all comers; a V8 in non-V form. The Camaro's LS would be more than sufficient. The STS seems to be the culprit in holding it back.

The DTS-group is flawed in the fact that Cadillac dumbed down and degenerated its styling to, seemingly, attract an older crowd. The 2000-2005 version came closer to being a car traveling in the desired direction than the current one. FWD or not, the old DTS was conceivably an American "S-Class."

The STS-group was flawed by it's lack of improvement. It debuted with all the goods to compete with Europe and Japan's best, but never was improved or marketed well. Imagine an STS with 6 more inches in length, a CTS styled interior, and a LS V8.

The XLR-groupsuffered from the same issues as the STS. The styling still sends shivers down my spine. It's gorgeous and makes the SL, XK, SC430, and 6Series seem mundane and regular.

The SRX-group in older form was a wonderful CUV, but it's looks, both inside and out, were too polarizing to bring in the buyers. The performance though, was spot on, but that did nothing to bring in desired sales. Truth be told, I was surprised that GM continued it. The new one is 90% perfect, as long as we ignore the 3.0L engine. Many cry about the vehicle having FWD but neglect to recognize that it is said to handle on par with Germany's best. If I were to buy the SRX, the FWD and 3.0L would never even get my attention. For me the only the iteration the vehicle comes in is the 2.8Lturbo with AWD and a Google click away from me finding out how I can upgrade the 2.8L engine to the 325HP version of what Opel is using in their OPC Insignia. I'm willing to bet that 25HP can be gained with a simple ECU re-program

The ESC-group is tops in the class from what I can see. The competitors from Lincoln to Land Rover simply do not offer a package as complete. The Escalade is an unprecedented success offers everything a Luxury-SUV buyer would desire, such as looks, which the LX570 fails, reliability, which the Range Rover and QX56 fail, power which the Navigator fails, and all with aspirational values to boot.

[mgescuro]

Oh.. now people are breaking it down by model?? Really people.

BLS -- F
CTS -- B
CTS-V -- A
DTS -- F
DTS-L -- F
STS -- D
STS-V -- D
SRX -- D
Escalade -- B
Escalade ESV -- C
Escalade EXT -- C
Escalade PE -- B
XLR -- F
XTS -- F
ATS -- Not enough info
Dealerships -- F

[MiosoBosa]

How are people rating the XTS when it hasn't even broke cover or been driven yet?

Are we hating on this vehicle because it is possibly FWD? But what if it is AWD an handles better than the S-Class and 7-Series? The SRX seems to be capable of handling as well as the X5, Q5, etc. This is possibly moot since I don't know one Executive class Sedan owner that ever explores the potential of their RWD based vehicles.

[2648562]

Halo brand. That's all I'm going to say. Alright, I'll say it again just to get my point across. HALO B-R-A-N-D. Think about it.

I think the people at Ford read this forum. Does anyone at GM?

[2002 Caddy]

Originally Posted by MiosoBosa

How are people rating the XTS when it hasn't even broke cover or been driven yet?

Are we hating on this vehicle because it is possibly FWD? But what if it is AWD an handles better than the S-Class and 7-Series? The SRX seems to be capable of handling as well as the X5, Q5, etc. This is possibly moot since I don't know one Executive class Sedan owner that ever explores the potential of their RWD based vehicles.

Because at GM a FWD car means that it will NOT have more then 300 HP... and if that's all we have under the hood then we are bringing a butter knife to a gun fight... regardless of how it handles it will spend its life looking at taillights.

Sadly the sales numbers of the STS, the DTS and the XLR support the failing grades.

[jlmartin99]

Originally Posted by MiosoBosa

Actually if I were to rate the actual cars I would come away with these same results. I thought though that the question was in reference to Cadillac's overall management.

The CTS-group is stellar thus far. The car is an absolute hit, lacking only one major amenity that would propel it above all comers; a V8 in non-V form. The Camaro's LS would be more than sufficient. The STS seems to be the culprit in holding it back.

The DTS-group is flawed in the fact that Cadillac dumbed down and degenerated its styling to, seemingly, attract an older crowd. The 2000-2005 version came closer to being a car traveling in the desired direction than the current one. FWD or not, the old DTS was conceivably an American "S-Class."

The STS-group was flawed by it's lack of improvement. It debuted with all the goods to compete with Europe and Japan's best, but never was improved or marketed well. Imagine an STS with 6 more inches in length, a CTS styled interior, and a LS V8.

The XLR-groupsuffered from the same issues as the STS. The styling still sends shivers down my spine. It's gorgeous and makes the SL, XK, SC430, and 6Series seem mundane and regular.

The SRX-group in older form was a wonderful CUV, but it's looks, both inside and out, were too polarizing to bring in the buyers. The performance though, was spot on, but that did nothing to bring in desired sales. Truth be told, I was surprised that GM continued it. The new one is 90% perfect, as long as we ignore the 3.0L engine. Many cry about the vehicle having FWD but neglect to recognize that it is said to handle on par with Germany's best. If I were to buy the SRX, the FWD and 3.0L would never even get my attention. For me the only the iteration the vehicle comes in is the 2.8Lturbo with AWD and a Google click away from me finding out how I can upgrade the 2.8L engine to the 325HP version of what Opel is using in their OPC Insignia. I'm willing to bet that 25HP can be gained with a simple ECU re-program

The ESC-group is tops in the class from what I can see. The competitors from Lincoln to Land Rover simply do not offer a package as complete. The Escalade is an unprecedented success offers everything a Luxury-SUV buyer would desire, such as looks, which the LX570 fails, reliability, which the Range Rover and QX56 fail, power which the Navigator fails, and all with aspirational values to boot.

MiosoBosa,

I understand. My view of Cadillac is from a luxury buyer perspective, when I compared Cadillac's luxury models for purchase with comparable models from Acura, Aston Martin, Audi, BMW, Infiniti, Jaguar, Lexus, Lincoln, Maserati, Mercedes-Benz and Range Rover. The specific categories from Cadillac I evaluated for purchase were the mid size premium luxury performance sedan, luxury performance roadster and full size luxury performance SUV. I have evaluated all of Cadillac's models in detail for 2009 purchase consideration with exception of the Cadillac DTS.

In fairness to the Cadillac DTS and DTS Platinum, I have only experience with the DTS when I was provided a DTS as a loaner when my Cadillac XLR was in for service for several days. I was very impressed with its ride quality, however I am not a fan of its overall design.

As a result of my comparative evaluation, I purchased a 2005 Cadillac STS V8, my first Cadillac by the way and a 2005 Cadillac XLR. And again for my new luxury car purchases in 2008 and 2009, I evaluated Cadillac's 2009 XLR Platinum and Cadillac's 2008 Escalade AWD and I purchased both.

So, my rating of Cadillac and its luxury models are from the view of a luxury buyer and Cadillac owner, not from a Cadillac critic or reviewer perspective. If I had not selected these Cadillac luxury models for purchase and experienced Cadillac ownership, I could have a different opinion. However, in my case, Cadillac has earned its position today to be my luxury brand of first choice.

JLM

[PA Dweller]

I say a C would suffice (Currently). The CTS is just awesome, at the very least a A- but IMO it really needs the tech features of the STS and a powertrain between the 304 HP V6 and 556 HP V8 something in the 350-420 HP range. Preferably a Turbocharged 3.6L rated at 370 HP and a V8 rated at 420 HP. The STS/DTS, bleh a C- at best for obvious reasons. The old SRX is a C, I really don't care for the wagon like looks and I refuse to give it a better score because it's RWD. The new SRX looks great inside and out a B-, the powertrains are a bit disappointing. I think the 3.6L engine with DI should be used to replace the 3.0. If the 2.8 performs keep it. The loss of the XLR is sad, a very unique vehicle and a B-. Needed a better powertrain. The Escalade is a A, the first generation was a total fail IMO but each generation just got better and better and now the third generation is just stunning. If I had that kind of money thats the kind of SUV I would drive hands down.

Personally I wouldn't instantly fail a Cadillac product because it's not RWD, I think that's kinda ignorant. I am sure paired with a proper AWD system a FWD biased vehicle can work for Cadillac (Look at Audi). So a large sedan like this XTS could work on a FWD platform, and the RWD/AWD ATS was a smart move since it will be a more sporty car. I look forward to Cadillac's future products and long term it's my opinion things will work out from them.

However this is the opinion of a non-expert so take it as you will.

[AndrewGS]

F

The CTS is about 90% there, but it still needs improvement in the details. There should also be a convertible based on the coupe. Speaking of which, it takes way too long to get the other variants out to the public. The CTS has been around for two years already and they are just about to start building the wagon and we're damn near a year away from having coupes on the lots.

The rest of the line holds the CTS back as it isn't able to carve Cadillac a truly upscale image.

The Escalade is beautiful, but it's just not what Cadillac needs. GMC's Denali line should be where the Escalade Platinum models are while Cadillac builds smaller, global SUVs like the M Class (where the SRX should be) and GL Class.

The XLR is another stunningly beautiful car that didn't go through the detail machine. It should've been further distinguished from the Corvette and been the ultimate open top luxury roadster.

The DTS shouldn't have existed. The DeVille was a great car, but not where Cadillac's flagship should've been. The DTS is simply a better looking DeVille with a few changes that made it worse in some respects.

The STS. All I can say is it was such a waste. It could've been an excellent car had they made it larger and stuck the details.

The new SRX is a complete joke, especially with the 3.0L. There's nothing else to say.

Cadillac's naming scheme is horrible.

The NorthStar, while advanced in 1993, has never been a perfect engine. In the early years they were known for head gasket leaks. In the later years it's been panned for being weak compared to the competition. Now it's being phased out with no replacement. Cadillac will have to use another Chevrolet component with the Small-Block.

Cadillac has to focus and strive to be the world's best luxury brand. When that happens, the image will follow, and it will spread globally. I don't see that happening because Cadillac can't produce a consistent range of vehicles.

[Taglane]

I gave it a B because I don't approve of the XTS being FWD, instead it should rival the S-class/7 series...we have nothing that even remotely competes with those. that's my main beef w/cadillac other than the srx's anemic powertrains.