Is GM Right Ruling Out The Holden Commodore Returning To The US As A Chevrolet?

[Shotgun]

I think many up here don't understand the question. They say one thing, but vote another.

The question can be asked like this: Is GM correct in NOT bringing the Holden Commodore to the US as a Chevrolet?

The wording of the original question probably confuses a great many up here.

[Mustapha Mond]

Originally Posted by Shotgun

I think many up here don't understand the question. They say one thing, but vote another.

The question can be asked like this: Is GM correct in NOT bringing the Holden Commodore to the US as a Chevrolet?

The wording of the original question probably confuses a great many up here.

Dammit you're right. I meant to agree that GM was right in not rebadging the Commodore. I actually don't know whether I voted yes or no in the poll though. Grrrr stupid much? Who me?
-Elliott

[tkrelston]

Chevy has been complaining about having too many models for too many years, why should they get a great car at the expense of Pontiac, who has lost many a great car to Chevy's complaining (think Fiero and the countless others cheapened to keep Chevy's junk from looking so bad!)

[FBODYRULES]

Originally Posted by steve333

Why don't you just get a CTS?

I agree! forget the bmw, what are you thinking?

[hyperv6]

I love Lutz but he needs to check talk now an then in cases like this.

Before I and all of us condem GM from not bringing this car in we need to first consider the economy that is not getting better yet. We also need to see what GM really has planned as RWD and perfromance will still be part of the plan.

Finally we While I love to have seen this car it would not have come in number greater than 40K per year just as the G8, That number would not have made little difference with Chevys bottom line.

Now the loss of this car will hurt Holden more then Chevy.

But like I said lets see what the whole plan is before we get too worked up. Then we can have an informed opinion vs just going off and looking foolish later. This happened once when Zeta was on hold and many went off on GM for that. The end result is a cheaper Camaro that we have now.

[mikmak]

Originally Posted by Mustapha Mond

Dammit you're right. I meant to agree that GM was right in not rebadging the Commodore. I actually don't know whether I voted yes or no in the poll though. Grrrr stupid much? Who me?
-Elliott

Too late! You're with us!

Originally Posted by hyperv6

I love Lutz but he needs to check talk now an then in cases like this.

Before I and all of us condem GM from not bringing this car in we need to first consider the economy that is not getting better yet. We also need to see what GM really has planned as RWD and perfromance will still be part of the plan.

Finally we While I love to have seen this car it would not have come in number greater than 40K per year just as the G8, That number would not have made little difference with Chevys bottom line.

Now the loss of this car will hurt Holden more then Chevy.

But like I said lets see what the whole plan is before we get too worked up. Then we can have an informed opinion vs just going off and looking foolish later. This happened once when Zeta was on hold and many went off on GM for that. The end result is a cheaper Camaro that we have now.

I don't mind looking foolish if it gets my point across. Perhaps they do have some mysterious plan that = accessible RWD for the US + export sustainability for Holden. Until I see it, I'll continue to believe that they have done the wrong thing. Only product can change reputations and Chey doesn't have one at the moment......

Now that I think about it, lets theorise some hypothetical headlines if the Caprice came out in the next few months:"After tax payer GM releases a full size gas guzzling sedan". Now we know that apparently the G8 isn't fullsize (debatable) but that wouldn't stop the headlines. Maybe it is more prudent, from a public perception stand point, that any Zeta product arrive AFTER teh 1.4DI turbo Cruze.





Nope! reason be damned! *shakes fist*

[A.J.]

I voted "unsure".

GM is right because of their current financial standpoint. It would produce more expense than profit unless it was produced on North American shores. The G8, while a great car, only started selling when GM forked over incentives.

GM is not right because there is a dedicated fanbase that will buy that car, and since it would be badged as a Chevrolet it would be seen more by potential buyers.

Personally, I think GM should badge the VF Commodore as a Chevrolet and release it the same model year as the VF. That way, both cars would have the same equipment, and be developed at the same time (unlike the Pontiac G8 and Saturn Astra, which were released at least two years after their overseas counterparts).

[hyperv6]

Originally Posted by mikmak

Too late! You're with us!



I don't mind looking foolish if it gets my point across. Perhaps they do have some mysterious plan that = accessible RWD for the US + export sustainability for Holden. Until I see it, I'll continue to believe that they have done the wrong thing. Only product can change reputations and Chey doesn't have one at the moment......

Now that I think about it, lets theorise some hypothetical headlines if the Caprice came out in the next few months:"After tax payer GM releases a full size gas guzzling sedan". Now we know that apparently the G8 isn't fullsize (debatable) but that wouldn't stop the headlines. Maybe it is more prudent, from a public perception stand point, that any Zeta product arrive AFTER teh 1.4DI turbo Cruze.





Nope! reason be damned! *shakes fist*

When dealing with GM one needs to one look at the big picture and two learn GM speak. There is also a lot of wrong infor and ideas about the new GM on the web. A lot of people are getting upset when they just do not have either correct info or all the info they need to know to properly understand what is going on.

Often the clues are there in front of us but we have to put them all together. Also the automotive world has always been evolving and we also have to understand things can change at the drop of a hat.

What I have seen over the last few months is this.

Lutz was going to leave because the goverment people were coming in and he did not want to build only 4 cylinder cars and Hybirds. After meeting with them he has found they are not to dictate product and only want them to make money. Note the Obama needs a profitable GM. If GM fails he will fail in the eye of a public already not happy with the bailouts.

Now even after Chapter 11 the CTS coupe will get the V treatment and was loved by the Goverment panel.

The Zeta as it is is only going to last till 2016 at best. Also the cost will be in the $30K plus range with a limit on how many they can import. The G8 did more good for Holdem vs Pontiac. Also it may little impact at Pontiac other than good press.

The Alpha program the last I could find out is just on hold just as the Zeta was at one point. GM needs the cost to be smaller to make it possible to share this with Buick and Chevy. Yes the new Camaro is planned to share this and to make it affordable and priced with the Mustange it needs cost reductions.

Word is they are looking at doing a scaled down Zeta to reduce cost. This is something they can not do with the CTS as it is about as small and cheap as it can be made. This was why they did Zeta in the first place.

Chevy also has a great push and need for a new Cruze, Impala and an updated Delta II Malibu. the high volume cars like these are what pay the billas and show the major part of the profits. Add to this they need to get the Volt out trouble free. While it will not show a profit a failure here could just be painful. They need to it flow into the Gen 2 and Gen 3 with no issues to bring the car that will show a profit.

Add in the Economy the lack of cars sales and and the exchange rates they all can play havoic with importing a car from OZ for a company just out of Chapter 11.

Keep in mind even as few G8's were brought into this country this year there are still many 08 G8's still on dealer lots at cut rate prices. It has sold well but not what you would call a sell out or a Camaro rate. Chevy would see much of the same and if Gas prices rise they would be taking up space on dealer lots.

The bottom line is there is work on RWD still going on. This is a program that would carry on past the increase in CAFE in 2016.

There also is performance in the future. Expect less V8's but more Turbos. I now have a 2.0 LNF Turbo with 290 HP and 315 FT LBS of Torque. That is only the begining to what we will see in the smaller engines. The V6 Turbo can give more MPG and as much power as the present LS.

Also we have the same people from the GMPD division who did the HHR SS, Cobalt SS, V series Caddys and other great cars tuning the new Cruze and even the Volt.

While Lutz has an problem of speaking at time when he should not I love the mans work and efforts at GM. He will make sure we will have cars that not just GM fans want but everyone. They also will be made to stand out in a good way and not a Aztek way.

Right now everyone at GM has not been seated at the table and there is a lot to happen in a short time. Since chapter 11 there will be a lot of work to do in a short time so I would expect to see and hear about a lot of things going on.

I feel by fall we will have a better idea on where things are going. Right now it is hard to understand all that is said and being done when we only have a slight clue on what is going on. Add to that the fact many of these things have not been decided yet by GM. Kind of hard to plot the future of a company when they have not hammered it all out themselves.

The next couple months will be some positive news I thing all here will like. Just rmember they still have to do the small cars like the Spark and other to meet market demads by the non enthusiast. The more of them they sell the more power we can expect from the performance end.

[EJD1984]

There could also be a legal issue. Since Pontiac is now officially owned by Motors Liquidation Co., the new GM may have to wait until the import/supply contract expires between Holden & Pontiac/M.L.Co.

[SierraGS]

Voted unsure.

Depends on what version of the Commodore (current VE) or (future VF) you are talking about and when the VF version starts production.

If the VF starts production soon it makes sense to take advantage of the updates and do a proper job of styling the VF to look like a Chevy and better coordinate ramping up production in the U.S.

The only way it make sense to spend the money required on the VE (if it is out of production in 2010) is if GM could move all of the exisiting VE tooling to the U.S. and produce them here, but then they lose out on any improvements.

GM can wait and do the job right with the VF and sequence the next generation Impala to match the VF, and I can see GM making the mainstream Impala trim levels (LS, LT and LTZ) FWD/AWD and offer the VF as RWD SS, Sportwagon and El Camino models along with a Chevrolet Cheyenne to compliment the Denali XT.

[rkmdogs]

Originally Posted by Suziebob

Like I said, the only way this car would have sold in any appreciable numbers is if every fanboy who whines on the internet went out and bought 2 of them.

I know, it's a great car. But it wasn't designed with the American market in mind or it would be built here and we wouldn't have to worry about shipping and exchange rates.

What have you been smokin'??? The G8 was designed to be a RWD Pontiac!
It wasn't built here because of the union perks that up the cost of every
GM vehicle produced on this continent!

GM needs to get its head out of Obamas' ass and bring back a RWD full-size
Chevy, at a price the middle class can afford! They had it right with the
'94-'96 Caprice & Impala SS versions, and those could compete toe-to-toe
on milage with smaller cars, with the sophistication of their engine management systems!

[rkmdogs]

Originally Posted by hyperv6

When dealing with GM one needs to one look at the big picture and two learn GM speak.
.......
There also is performance in the future. Expect less V8's but more Turbos. I now have a 2.0 LNF Turbo with 290 HP and 315 FT LBS of Torque. That is only the begining to what we will see in the smaller engines. The V6 Turbo can give more MPG and as much power as the present LS.

Also we have the same people from the GMPD division who did the HHR SS, Cobalt SS, V series Caddys and other great cars tuning the new Cruze and even the Volt.

The next couple months will be some positive news I thing all here will like. Just rmember they still have to do the small cars like the Spark and other to meet market demads by the non enthusiast. The more of them they sell the more power we can expect from the performance end.

This writer must not be old enough to remember when Chrysler first introduced turbos....... and the problems they created down the road!
He doesn't remember the warranty claims about turbos, and the
pronouncements that turbos were like spark plugs and brake pads ---
components that are subject to wear and therefore not covered under
warranty!
These problems were caused by ---- dirty air filters that never got changed!
Have maintainence habits of the average American driver changed?
If anything they have gotten worse, because of the sell by Detroit PR
people that their "blah-blah V-6" is maintainence-free, or we will do it for you!
Get an education on all the aspects of the internal combustion engine, please!

[A.J.]

^ You can edit your posts, you know. ^

There should be a fourth option - wait for the VF.

[Shotgun]

Originally Posted by rkmdogs

What have you been smokin'??? The G8 was designed to be a RWD Pontiac!
It wasn't built here because of the union perks that up the cost of every
GM vehicle produced on this continent!

Um, no on both counts. The Commodore had been out long before the thought of importing it as a Pontiac ever came about. It was simply a replacement for the Grand Prix, which ultimately lasted near as long as Pontiac itself.

The union perks, as you call them, would not have been as costly as the price of importing these cars from Austrailia. Remember, these cars didn't sell worth a crap until there were buckets of money on the hood. Just like the flop GTO was.

[Nasty_SS]

Originally Posted by neshapop

I agree with you, that would add more spice into current Buick offer and remove a stigma of old people's car. They can also charge Buick price for entry luxury performance sedan.

Another reason why
Buick should been shut down before Pontiac