Which GM Brand(s) Do You Think Should Get The Chop?

[fan]

It would be nice if all the divisions could be sustained, but if some need to go, the first ones should be Hummer and Saab. What if they would be shut down (not sold) and their dealerships converted into Saturn dealerships?


About Pontiac and Saturn...

For Pontiac would be great to have a RWD midsize car (Torana). A line-up of Commodore, Torana, Solstice, Vibe and a rebadged compact from Chevy or Saturn would be enough for a succesfull brand.

If plans for Torana are scrapped, then a solution for the Pontiac-Saturn debate could be total rebadging for Pontiac.
Pontiac would be Saturn\Chevy car rebadges + Commodore.
Pontiac: G8, rebadged Opel Insignia, rebadged Cobalt or Astra, rebadged Opel Corsa, Vibe(rebadged Toyota) and the all original Pontiac only Solstice.
Saturn : Outlook, Vue, Opel Insignia, Opel Astra, Opel Corsa, Sky.
So, Pontiac would have cars from Saturn and maybe a compact Chevy. Since it's not likely many customers would cross-shop Pontiac and Saturn, the new Opel Insignia should enjoy some good combined sales. They key is that they are not cross-shopped.

Anyway people are used to Pontiac rebadging and it seems they don't have a problem with it. Since they'll get quality product, they will have even less problems with that.
In the future, if there would be resources, Pontiac should get sportier products depending on the money available.

Some well done rebadging is less riskier than cutting brands. (Losing 300k sales -Saturn or 400k Pontiac is not good)
Have the pie and eat it too.

[JoeT]

I have been saying for years that GM North America has way too many brands. The axe need to be sharpened!
Each brand should have it's own specific focus, showrooms and line-up. No cross breeding!

Buick - Dead (market taken over by Cadillac and Pontiac)
Cadillac - Luxury cars and SUV's - a real competitor for das Germans.
Chevrolet - Trucks/Vans/SUV's, it's cheaper Daewoo sourced cars, plus Camaro & Corvette
GMC - Dead (market taken over by Chevrolet)
Hummer - Sold
Pontiac - Opel and Holden sourced vehicles (Commodore, Statesman, Torana, Insignia, Astra, Corsa, Antara, etc)
Saturn - Dead (market taken over by Pontiac)

If Toyota can get to the top of the charts with only one major brand there is no reason GM can't do it with three.

[gardnet1]

Obviously too afraid to put Saab on the poll as it would have been a top vote getter.

[Citation84]

Originally Posted by Higher Rhymes

I voted Saturn and Hummer. Useless trash.. people seem to be forgetting Saturn wasn't even created until +/- 1995, the brand really has no identity or history to back itself. It's a flop, but GM won't admit it. They've NEVER had an attractive vehicle that I'd seriously consider purchasing.

This thread made me wonder what GM was thinking trying to develop so many brands at once... because for years they've horribly failed.
Haven't even offered any manual transmission sedans since like the late 70s early 80s.

I can only imagine the conversation in that board room that day.
"All your markets are belong to us!11!"
FAIL.

Its funny how GM and Ford are just NOW catching up to japanese reliability and initial value and build quality that just goes to show how far we've been behind for so long.

I've read all these posts and I liked some of the ideas.. but GM wont listen..
they THINK they know what people want until it boards the FAILBOAT on the market (torrent < lol.. and there's way more)


Pontiac - Stay. But make it EXCLUSIVELY performance cars. None of this rebadging crap.

Chevrolet - Stay. Make it THE PEOPLE'S cars.. and ONLY cars NO trucks or SUVs.

Buick - Have to have a Lincoln/Mercury, Acura fighter

Cadillac - STAY most definitely, they've crossed over to Europe already.. not doing FANTASTIC but still, globalizing the brands is what we're looking for.

GMC - Exclusively trucks and SUVs... make them upscale looking with the same work ethic.

I dont care what happens to the rest.
SAAB is stupid. It's all faux luxury anyway.. egg looking crap cars, slowly developed into a car I'd test drive and not buy.
As long as Volvo is in America, SAAB cannot compete with entry level luxury cars.
GM Daewoo < seriously, who buys Korean crap? Hyundai and Kia came up from their grave. axe this division and save the money for R&D on cars that people WANT to buy.

GLOBALIZATION is the name of the game.

I agree with most of what you have said, but GM Daewoo has ironically been one of their BRIGHT spots. A smart move.

It positioned them geographically for participation in Asian markets, gave them entry level and up products to be sold as Chevrolets [and Suzukis] in the US and Canada [Aveo and Optra] and gave channels to GM in Europe and elsewhere to launch or relaunch the Chevrolet brand "over there" with a ready made dealer network, factories, etc.

Daewoo's burn out came from a massive worldwide expansion and some upper level financial corruption.GM was wise to scoop it up.There's more profit potential HERE than with Saturn or Saab, that's for certain.

Remember the current VUE is a collaboration between Opel and Daewoo. They will have a growing impact on the "globalization" of GM's offerings in the future. At least their small cars. This will be the first of many. The triplets shown recently [Traxx etc.] are all from GM DAT.

Wonder who will get the Matiz: Pontiac, Saturn or Chevrolet ?

[Citation84]

Originally Posted by gardnet1

Obviously too afraid to put Saab on the poll as it would have been a top vote getter.

It's GM's sacred cow. The supposed Euro-cred card GM's management have deluded themselves into believing they "need".

[PURPLEIMPALA]

Originally Posted by eb110americana

How come I can't vote for Saab? Can we fix this?

i agree. Saab would be my first choice.

[Nasty_SS]

Where's Saab...there a big blood sucker....that should be at least on the list

[member12]

Chevy, Saturn, and Cadillac are really all they need.

GMC is all re-badges....but they are popular and virutally free as far as research and development.


I'd cut Pontiac and Buick immediately, and begin pairing Saturn dealerships with truck brands (either Hummer or GMC, depending on the local market). Hummer needs to become less trendy and more "real", essentially beating the Rubicon at it's own game, but supplying a more useful product....no one does this anymore since Land Rover is a yuppie mobile.

Saab might be a good candidate to sell since their products are not quite as integrated with GM's as Hummer.

[Ultimate1]

I cant believe only 13% voted for buick.

[jasaero]

Originally Posted by 2002 Caddy

One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Lets see, when GM cut Oldsmobile, we
1) Lost market share equal to 100% of Oldsmobile sales (it was like we lost every single customer)
2) Became even less profitable
3) Didn't reduce costs one bit
4) Had to pay out MILLIONS to dealers to get out of existing contacts.

To review, costs when up, and sales when down... Great

CUT GMC and the same thing will happen.

A better move would be to phase out Chevy Trucks, take Chevy back to making comfortable cost effective cars for the masses. After all Chevy trucks are all just re-badges of GMC offerings.

If they haven't already, Trucks will become a "Professional ONLY" tool in the near future... We have been beaten over the head for years that GMC is "Professional grade" Now that this marketing might actually mean something we want to cut this division?

Cutting truck production is only 1/2 of the problem. We need to build small cars that are as nice as the new Malibu. The best way to do that is to have the Chevy engineers stop working on trucks and FOCUS on the next Cobalt and a Aveo.

I wouldn't kill anything... Killing divisions hasn't helped the in past and it won't in the future. I would sell off useless divisions like SAAB, Saturn and Hummer

Best post on this subject I have seen yet. Old GM brands are just to tied up in the GM dealer network to kill. More recently acquired or created brands are different. They have a chancee of raising cash as a sale and with Saab, Saturn and Hummer you don't loose much volume and maybe actually get to keep the volume to help costs at factories if the buyers don't want to take production into their own hands right away.

[SDRacing]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

I honestly love how some people have been saying the same thing over and over, but yet others are completely ignoring them.
GMC is SELLING. Get that into your heads. They're GM's 2nd best selling division. Why do you think they sell so many Sierras every year when people could just get a Silverado? Bottom line: People like the upscale feel. The Chevys will always feel like work trucks, even the LTZ models. The Sierras feel like upscale, luxury trucks that can still tow/haul. Since they're just Chevy rebadges, they don't even need to do R&D on them, it's like free money coming in just by slapping a GMC badge on the truck.
Face it, GMC HAS to offer something that Chevy just can't. Otherwise, nobody would buy their vehicles.

Maybe you should face it. What ever is offered in GMC should go to Chevy, period. How hard is that? Make the chevy trucks cover all basis, top to bottom.

When you have a brand that is made up of nothing but rebadges with more options, they should kill it and just offer those same options to Chevy, their best selling brand.

Its funny how some of you say Chevy should only be selling cars. Chevy is Fords biggest competitor in trucks, is it not? Not GMC. This "professional grade" blah blah blah....give me a break. They come off the same line for petes sake. Chevy should just absorb all of GMCs offerings and be done with it.

[A.J.]

IMO, none of GM's brands should be cut. AT ALL.

For those of you who said "Chevy and Cadillac only", I feel sorry for you. You can't just put so much burden on the shoulders of two brands. And if you still think so, consider this:

Toyota has Toyota, Scion, and Lexus (That's 3, yes, 3)
Chrysler LLC has Dodge, Chrysler, and Jeep (Also 3)
Ford has Ford, Lincoln, Mazda, and some of Volvo (That's err... 3.5 )
Honda has Honda, Acura, and Honda Motorcycles (That still counts)

Get my point?

Here are my visions of GM's brands (From lowest to highest $$)
Chevy: Mainstream; Cars/CUVs/Minivan plus Silverado (so diehard customers aren't lost)
Pontiac: AWD, Fun-to-drive; Cars plus a small CUV (similar to Mazda, Solstice stays RWD)
Saturn: Upper mainstream; Cars/CUV/Minivan (competes with Volkswagen, maybe Volvo)
GMC: The Truck Brand; CUVs/SUVs/Trucks (Tahoe/Escalade Die, Yukon Lives, but not XL)
Buick: Entry-level luxury; Cars plus a small CUV (Enclave could turn into a raised wagon like the Flex/Taurus X)
SAAB: Sporty, Aerodynamic Luxury; Cars/CUVs (guns for BMW)
Cadillac: "Standard of the World" Luxury; Cars/CUVs (again, Escalade dies)

[Bvonscott]

I cant believe how many people voted for my beloved GMC. You guys suck!

[jwrebholz]

At first I was thinking, "Just axe GMC and Hummer and keep the rest."

Then I started thinking about it. The more I looked the more I realized how superfluous most of the brands really were. The more I looked at Buick the more I saw it just stepping on Cadillac's toes as a luxury car. The closer I looked at Pontiac the more I saw just a bunch of Chevy rebadges with a couple cars that probably should have been Chevies anyway. Same deal with Saturn. So now I'm of the opinion that GM should axe everything in North America except for Chevrolet and Cadillac. Chevy would be a complete full-line marque, with everything from subcompacts to sportscars to trucks and SUVs. Cadillac would be all luxury, all the time. Here's how the lineup should look.

CHEVROLET
Subcompact--Aveo, Corsa-sized 3, 4, 5-door. 1.4L naturally aspirated I4, 5-speed manual/auto option, built on Gamma. A car like this should do 40+ MPG and base around 10 grand.

Compact--Cobalt-sized 2, 4-door. 1.4L turbo I4 base engine, 6M/6A transmission. More upscale than the subcompact, include things like AC, CD player and ABS standard. Optional 2.0L turbo SS model. Optional plug-in hybrid model, differentiated by aero package and badging. (9C1 police package available)

Midsize--Malibu-sized 4-door/wagon. Base 2.0L turbo four (heavily detuned, down to about 200HP), upmarket 3.6L V6. 6A transmission, optional plug-in hybrid model, differentiated by aero package and badging. (9C1 police package available)

Fullsize--Pontiac G8-sized 4-door/wagon. Base 2.0L turbo four (full strength). Optional DI 3.6L V6. Optional 6.2L V8 SS model. 6M/6A. Optional AWD. Optional two-mode/plug-in hybrid model differentiated by aero package and badging. (9C1 police-package available)

Compact Sports--Solstice-sized compact convertible. 2.0L N/A four base engine, 2.0L turbo I4 SS option. 6M/6A. Z26 track-day special option.

Midsize Sports--Camaro-sized coupe, convertible. 2.0L turbo I4 base engine, 6.2L V8 SS model. Reimagine Z28 option as a track-day special. (9C1 police package available)

Corvette--Exotic coupe, convertible. 6.2L N/A V8, 6M/6A. Optional 7.0L V8. Optional ZR-1 track special option with uprated suspension, deleted emissions equipment, stripped interior and 6-point harnesses installed.

As for trucks...

Compact Truck - Chevy LUV-style compact pickup. 2.0L four base engine, 5M/5A. 2WD/4WD (w/low range). Base "hose-out" interior--rubber floor, waterproof, tear-resistant seats, no radio. Sold primarily to commercial buyers.

Full-size truck--continues as present.

Compact Crossover--5/7-seat, base 2.0L DI I4, optional 3.6L DI V6. 6A. FWD/AWD. Two-mode/plug-in hybrid option.

Fullsize Crossover--GMC Acadia size, 7-seat. 3.6L DI V6, 6A. FWD/AWD. Two-mode/plug-in hybrid option.

Fullsize SUV--Suburban-size 7-seat. 5.3L DI V8, 6.2L DI V8, 4.5L V8 TD, 6.6L V8 TD. 6A. Two-mode/Plug-in hybrid option. 2WD/4WD. 2500/3500/HD variants available to commercial buyers. 1500 9C1 police package available.

Cadillac...well, ok, I'd do what mgescuro would do, for the sake of brevity.

[HotCarNut]

Originally Posted by Penthos

Its funny in the Buick thread a couple weeks ago I mentioned that GM should kill GMC. I own a GMC and think the GMC looks 10x better than the Chevy but I feel it would make the best business sense to kill GMC.

I agree. I think that the GMC styling should just be transferred and badged Chevy while the FUGLY Chevy styling goes the way of the Dodo (at least on the pickups and the Lambda platform vehicle. For me, the Tahoe and Yukon styling is a tossup.

GMC is redundant, and they could keep the commercial trucks on while shutting down the consumer division. It might piss dealers off, but it's the best thing to do.

Oh, GM, don't forget to sell off Hummer to the Indians and Saab to the Germans while you're at it. Daimler is currently without anything to ruin since they sold Chrysler. Give them a shot at Saab as nobody else has managed to run it completely into the ground.