While America dithers with batteries Japan moves ahead - with hydrogen

[AMERICA 123]

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008...ishe.html#more

FCCJ Establishes Scenario for Fuel Cell Vehicle and Hydrogen Station Commercialization in Japan Beginning in 2015
7 July 2008


Leading automakers in and outside Japan and Japanese energy companies have agreed on a scenario which sees commercialization of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles (FCVs) and hydrogen stations beginning in Japan in 2015.

Beginning in late 2006, the Fuel Cell Commercialization Conference of Japan (FCCJ), under the leadership of major member companies on its board of directors, held repeated consultations on scenarios for full-scale commercialization of FCVs and development of hydrogen stations.

These consultations led to the agreement on a timeline and the requirements for commercialization of FCVs and hydrogen stations starting in 2015.

Major member companies of the FCCJ board (in alphabetical order) are: Cosmo Oil Co., Ltd.; General Motors Asia Pacific (Japan) Ltd.; Honda Motor

Co., Ltd.; Idemitsu Kosan Co., Ltd.; Japan Energy Corporation; Mercedes-Benz Japan Co., Ltd.; Nippon Oil Corporation; Nissan Motor Co., Ltd.;

Osaka Gas Co., Ltd.; Showa Shell Sekiyu K.K.; Tokyo Gas Co., Ltd.; and Toyota Motor Corporation.

Based on FCCJ suggestions, demonstration tests with approximately 120 fuel cell vehicles have been conducted in Japan as part of the Japan Hydrogen & Fuel Cell Demonstration Project, which commenced in 2002.

In addition, there are twelve hydrogen stations already in operation focused in the Tokyo metropolitan area.

The agreed-on scenario envisions FCVs beginning to be in daily use by general users around 2015.

Automakers and energy suppliers will further accelerate their initiatives for durability and reliability improvement and cost reduction on vehicles and hydrogen stations, respectively.

[A.J.]

Yeah, hydrogen is great, blah blah blah...until it explodes.

IMO, as soon as GM is finished with the Volt, they need to move on to the Sequel.

[eurohazard]

Originally Posted by A.J.

Yeah, hydrogen is great, blah blah blah...until it explodes.

IMO, as soon as GM is finished with the Volt, they need to move on to the Sequel.

Gasoline tanks can explode, hell, lead acid batteries can explode.

[WishIhadatruck]

I think the Volt is an important part of their fuel cell plans. It will be fuel cell ready from a powertrain perspective, all electric. Hopefully the price of the batteries comes down and GM is working on many electric vehicle models that have the option to be gas, diesel, or hydrogen fuel cell powered with regards to electrical generation.

[johnstarnes]

This is good news.....hydrogen is the most abundant element in the Universe, when burned produces the univeral solvent that is the basis of all life on Earth, is less explosive then gasoline (odd how some still scarred by being misinformed about why the Hindenberg exploded love to complain about it exploding), can be produced from water now without energy-intensive electrolysis, can run both ICEs and fuel cells....nice to know that Japan already has commercial hydrogen stations.....LA has a few too I think. I have dreamed of hydrogen fuel cell cars since the 1980's, so Honda's sleekly stunning FCX Clarity literally thrills me as we dip our toes into the Hydrogen Era!

[BigAls87Z28]

HA..you know, when GM brought out hydrogen cars, everyone laughed. When they talked about a hyrdogen infastructure, more laughter. All the critics came out, saying how stupid it was, how it would take so much power to get the hydrogen, how they couldnt store the fuel, etc etc. Everyone laughed yet GM continued to move foward. Then Toyota came out with its Prius model, gas went to the mid 2's and everyone started to buy them up!! Toyota was a God!!!
Now, its the opposite. Americans see hyrbids as old technology. Now that the Japanese are doing hydrogen research, now the American companies are "behind" playing with thier silly batteries....

[jkennedy293]

The problem with fuel cells isn't the technology. Its creating the fuel and the infrastructure.

While Hydrogen is the most abundant element on earth, it doesn't exist wholly in nature. Hydrogen must be extracted from host materials, which at this point is still relatively expensive. And then there is the fueling infrastructure. A system of pipes, tankers, and fueling stations that covers the entire U.S. is still at least a decade or two away.

[DirtyMoney]

I could have sworn that GM was the first to roll out hydrogen equinox's. Is "Project Driveway" still a go?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqo7zDRLZGI

and this crap
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sba5rEBfAgM
Honda makes you pay $600 a month for theirs.

STFU!!!

[genjy]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

HA..you know, when GM brought out hydrogen cars, everyone laughed. When they talked about a hyrdogen infastructure, more laughter. All the critics came out, saying how stupid it was, how it would take so much power to get the hydrogen, how they couldnt store the fuel, etc etc. Everyone laughed yet GM continued to move foward. Then Toyota came out with its Prius model, gas went to the mid 2's and everyone started to buy them up!! Toyota was a God!!!
Now, its the opposite. Americans see hyrbids as old technology. Now that the Japanese are doing hydrogen research, now the American companies are "behind" playing with thier silly batteries....

GM is all talk. GM does it all the time. It's doing that with the Volt right now.

Just give us the products.

[SirRaven]

The problem isnt with creating a car that can run on hydrogen, its the infrastructure. Just like with the EV1, ya car companies can do it, but is the consumer willing to pay the price for the car. Also where are people going fill the car up at. To many things outside of an automakers control to actually roll these out into productions.

Also for those who think Japan is ahead on this read about the Sequal (first hydrogen vehicle to get 300 miles on one tank). Also GM has 100 Hydrogen Equinoxes out across the nation to get a feel for how these might work as a full production car. Honda does have their hydrogen car out, but like the EV1 did, it can only be bought in certain locations (NYC, LA, and DC).

[ksr]

Doesn't GM also produce hydrogen-powered buses for mass transit?

[bigdav160]

Right now, almost all hydrogen is produced from natural gas. Conceivably most home owners could have a fueling station right in their home.

But fuel cells still have some longevity and cold "start" issues to work out.

Besides, with the amount of water vapor (bigger "greenhouse gas" than CO2 will ever be) and oxygen consumed, these vehicles will be dead in the sights of the environmental nazis

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

HA..you know, when GM brought out hydrogen cars, everyone laughed. When they talked about a hyrdogen infastructure, more laughter. All the critics came out, saying how stupid it was, how it would take so much power to get the hydrogen, how they couldnt store the fuel, etc etc. Everyone laughed yet GM continued to move foward. Then Toyota came out with its Prius model, gas went to the mid 2's and everyone started to buy them up!! Toyota was a God!!!
Now, its the opposite. Americans see hyrbids as old technology. Now that the Japanese are doing hydrogen research, now the American companies are "behind" playing with thier silly batteries....

You know, it's the Japanese Government that's ahead of the American Government

These consultations led to the agreement on a timeline and the requirements for commercialization of FCVs and hydrogen stations starting in 2015.

I doubt we have the White House and Pentagon bathroom key system as organised as this - we definitely don't have the leadership trying to get it done.

No, instead we have a buncha' money - including some 'Agency' retiree's trying to lock up key commodities and simultaneously force battery hybridization in an artificially inflated oil price environment.

This also shows you what Kalifornia could be doing.

GM is not the problem here.

[M_RABID]

GM and Hydrogen power already have a strong history.
http://www.gm.com/explore/technology/fuel_cells/

GM currently has hydrogen powerd buses and postal carriers.

The first combined hydrogen and gasoline station in North America is located in Washington D.C. and is a joint project Shell Hydrogen and GM.


http://www.shell.com/home/content/hy...otos_0309.html

Volcano Yields Ancient Hydrogen Producing Organism
Posted on July 8th, 2008 by admin (http://www.hydrogencarsnow.com/blog2/)
The new hydrogen economy may just be jumpstarted by a very old microorganism that has been garnered from the bowels of a volcano. Virginia Tech has teamed up with the U. S. Department of Energy (DOE) and the Russian Academy of Sciences to develop and refine the hydrogen producing qualities of the billions year old archaea found in the volcanic area of Uzon Caldera, Kamchatka in Siberia.

The archaea, officially named Desulfurococcus fermentans was found create hydrogen unlike its four closest relatives. The new finding of this volcanic microorganism opens the door for scientists to build high-temperature hydrogen production processes based upon breaking down cellulose materials.

The DOE Joint Genome Institute will expedite the process of DNA sequencing upon the archaea process that involves chomping and ingesting cellulose and spitting out hydrogen in large quantities under laboratory conditions. Biswarup Mukhopadhyay from the Virginia Polytechnic Institute will be the chief investigator in this project.

In the past I’ve talked about producing hydrogen organically through the use of algae or bacteria. The volcanic archaea is yet another clean, renewable resource that can be developed to one day produce the volume of hydrogen we will need to power cars in this country. While the critics are talking about the current state that most hydrogen is produced from natural gas, the visionaries are working on methods such as the volcanic archaea to produce what we need cleanly, organically and renewably.

Toyoda is not the H2 pioneer.

[Ming]

Think infrastructure will be a problem? Think again. One third of Japan's population lives in Tokyo. 35 million people living in a single megacity.

Just as cell phone technologies have been quick to advance in Japan due to the centralization of population in a few cities, hydrogen infrastructure (where you can fuel up) will not be nearly as big a problem for the Japanese as it will be for the Suburban Sprawling U.S.

Also, fon't forget, in 2005 GM promised us a production Hydrogen car by 2010...!