UAW Strikes JCI Plant Supplying Traverse Parts

[Clownzilla]

Originally Posted by NfamousZ24

Wrong Clownzilla you don't know crap and you need to shut up for once.

They make seats, Seats are delivered on time in sequenced order. They have to be delivered within 2 hours of being ordered. Once the body has been painted and OK'ed then the seat is ordered and then put on the truck in the correct sequence.

You fail at knowing the Industry.

And again GM will probably side with the Union because Johnson Controls are breaking the Law.

Lol, it's YOU that does not understand the BUSINESS of the industry. The seats DO NOT have to be delivered within two hours. If the UAW is costing the company too much money and blocking product production then the building process can EASILY be diverted to Mexico. Mexican workers work harder AND are grateful for their jobs so it seems to make perfect sense to move there. Also, I have a gut wrenching message to those who bring up labor unions in other countries. The UAW workers love to bring up corporate greed in their propaganda but NEVER bring up the terrible greed of the line "worker". In other countries, the union worker is actually for the good of the country and their fellow man. In the United States and Canada The UAW-CAW worker only care about their own pocketbook. They only care about their country if they get handouts from them and they only care about their fellow man if they don't get paid more (or too much more) than themselves.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by Clownzilla

Lol, it's YOU that does not understand the BUSINESS of the industry. The seats DO NOT have to be delivered within two hours. If the UAW is costing the company too much money and blocking product production then the building process can EASILY be diverted to Mexico. Mexican workers work harder AND are grateful for their jobs so it seems to make perfect sense to move there. Also, I have a gut wrenching message to those who bring up labor unions in other countries. The UAW workers love to bring up corporate greed in their propaganda but NEVER bring up the terrible greed of the line "worker". In other countries, the union worker is actually for the good of the country and their fellow man. In the United States and Canada The UAW-CAW worker only care about their own pocketbook. They only care about their country if they get handouts from them and they only care about their fellow man if they don't get paid more (or too much more) than themselves.

Okay, wow, talk about a massive generalization. First off, I don't think you can call my dad "greedy," since he didn't even care about what the union said or wanted, he had to be a member of the UAW to work. So he got paid more than everyone else, so what? He had an old contract, he was with the company since the 70s. That doesn't make him greedy or caring only about his own pocketbook. He joined at the right time, and he retired at the right time. I don't think that makes him greedy, it just makes him very lucky.
And put yourself into their situation. If you had the opportunity to make $27/hour plus benefits, would you not take it? Or would you go for $8/hour so that you'd be equal "with your fellow man?" What, do you hate money or something? That kind of thinking will get you absolutely nowhere in this world.
And what the hell do you know? Did you ever work in a GM assembly plant? I think that NfamousZ24 would know more than you considering the fact that he works at an assembly plant. Plus, his union has taken pay cuts and sacrificed a LOT to keep the plant running, and yet they're still being shut down.
Oh, so my dad only cares about his country when he gets handouts? Let me tell you something, my dad is perhaps one of the most patriotic people you'll ever meet. He loves this country and would gladly fight to keep it alive, which is something that many so-called "Americans" would not do.
Your argument has little to no basis for the vast majority of UAW workers. I am not defending the UAW since I don't agree with a lot of their policies, but I can tell you that not every UAW or union employee is greedy. I'm sure there are many out there that truly are only after money, but for you to make such a massive generalization makes you sound like a total idiot.

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by johnnyl321

The CAW also has a strike at the Sierra/Silverado truck plant in Oshawa.

That was finished a month ago.

[Clownzilla]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

Okay, wow, talk about a massive generalization. First off, I don't think you can call my dad "greedy," since he didn't even care about what the union said or wanted, he had to be a member of the UAW to work. So he got paid more than everyone else, so what? He had an old contract, he was with the company since the 70s. That doesn't make him greedy or caring only about his own pocketbook. He joined at the right time, and he retired at the right time. I don't think that makes him greedy, it just makes him very lucky.
And put yourself into their situation. If you had the opportunity to make $27/hour plus benefits, would you not take it? Or would you go for $8/hour so that you'd be equal "with your fellow man?" What, do you hate money or something? That kind of thinking will get you absolutely nowhere in this world.
And what the hell do you know? Did you ever work in a GM assembly plant? I think that NfamousZ24 would know more than you considering the fact that he works at an assembly plant. Plus, his union has taken pay cuts and sacrificed a LOT to keep the plant running, and yet they're still being shut down.
Oh, so my dad only cares about his country when he gets handouts? Let me tell you something, my dad is perhaps one of the most patriotic people you'll ever meet. He loves this country and would gladly fight to keep it alive, which is something that many so-called "Americans" would not do.
Your argument has little to no basis for the vast majority of UAW workers. I am not defending the UAW since I don't agree with a lot of their policies, but I can tell you that not every UAW or union employee is greedy. I'm sure there are many out there that truly are only after money, but for you to make such a massive generalization makes you sound like a total idiot.

I am not generalizing all union workers. My father was in the same position in a grocers union. He fought AGAINST the union because of their greed. He had to join because of laws. Well, the grocery store chain went under because of labor greed and EVERYBODY lost their jobs. My father did something about that and started his own successful business and writes his OWN paychecks and succeeds or fails based on his OWN work and not the work of a union negotiator. Now, I know that there are some UAW-CAW members that are against all this but the UAW-CAW as a whole (and the vast majority of their workers) has a position of free handouts and more cash for nothing. Also, before I would take $8 an hour I would find another job. Instead of drinking beer, watching Jerry Springer, and working a half-assed job I was improving my education to where I COULD find another job. I also would not hold it against anybody who worked harder than I. Sure, doctors make more than I do because they spent half their life in school. I would not do that but they did and their paycheck shows for it. If you work an $8 an hour job then you DESERVE an $8 an hour job. You don't tell the market what you are worth, the market tells YOU what you are worth. That same market is going to tell UAW-CAW workers that they are worth $0 and my taxes are going to have to support their lazy a$$ lifestyles.

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

If you had the opportunity to make $27/hour plus benefits, would you not take it? Or would you go for $8/hour so that you'd be equal "with your fellow man?"

The point is, the opportunity for an uneducated, unskilled worker to make that kind of money with those benefits should not exist. Sorry, but that's the truth. I'm not saying everyone should make minimum wage, but how can you justify those wages when the only reason you're not replaced by anybody else off the street willing to work is that the union will hold the company hostage if it happens? The union does away with supply and demand of the workforce. They supply AND demand!

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by cainsw

So, if you don't got to college you should not be able to make $27 hr? That is about a dumbass statement. That is the problem with some of you people on this site! I know plenty of well educated people who don't deserve to make $8 hr.

Thst's not what I said. You don't have to go to college, but why should you start at $27/hr? Nobody off the street with no education and no experience should be making $27 to start. I'm all for working your way up, but they don't work their way up. They're happy where they're at cause they make so much there, so why do better. I'm not for not bettering yourself. The union has virtually no incentive for their members to better themselves.

[Clownzilla]

Originally Posted by Uzzy

Thst's not what I said. You don't have to go to college, but why should you start at $27/hr? Nobody off the street with no education and no experience should be making $27 to start. I'm all for working your way up, but they don't work their way up. They're happy where they're at cause they make so much there, so why do better. I'm not for not bettering yourself. The union has virtually no incentive for their members to better themselves.

Well said! You know, I get union members spitting the "You think your better because you went to college" BS all the time. Do they think that I don't respect the farmer that only has a high school education, or the CEO that drops out of college to fulfill a dream, or the soldier that chooses to protect this country and put his college degree on hold? Of coarse I respect them! Now, do I respect the line worker that complains about his lever pulling job even though it puts food on the table, or the welder that is pissed off because he has to pay a small percentage of his healthcare when the majority of the nation does not have healthcare AT ALL, or the floor sweeper that DEMANDS a pension when the rest of the nation works on a 401K system and personal financial discipline................F*** NO!!!!! College is a good way to advance a career but not the only way. UAW-CAW members don't care about advancement, they just want FREE MONEY AND BENEFITS!

[TJ95GAGT]

Originally Posted by cainsw

So, if you don't got to college you should not be able to make $27 hr? That is about a dumbass statement. That is the problem with some of you people on this site! I know plenty of well educated people who don't deserve to make $8 hr.

The point of ALL these posts in ALL the union threads is that GM cannot survive paying NON competitive wages. The recent negotiations that took place helped GM but won't be realized until 2010 right? That was step in the right direction to getting GM into the competitive wages/benes.

[Ed Arcuri]

This thread seems to have gotten everyone in a lather. Perhaps we should look at what underlies this controversy.
For a long time, American industry led the world and had few, true competitors. The Union paradigm was based on getting all the concessions they could squeeze out of "Management." They taught their membership a skewed economics that was unreal then and is surreal today.
The challenge for all of us in North America is to realize the extent to which we are engaged in international competition. This is no longer a fight between unions and managers; if it ever really was.
We are not the only ones who need to brush up on basic economics, of course. South Korean unions are protesting the lifting of a ban on U.S. beef imports to their country which ban was put in place following a phony "mad cow" scare. What would happen to South Korea if we decided that we wouldn't let them sell cars here? The Koreans benefit from our market, our consumers benefit from more choice in the marketplace, Korean consumers will benefit from more choice in their market, and we all benefit if each country produces what it produces most efficiently.
The Japanese have used similar ruses to block the sale of California rice in Japan. Japanese consumers, in many cases, prefer the U.S. rice to the domestic grain. Japan's government has continually tried to interfere with the importation of rice to protect their own rice growers for economic and cultural reasons.
I suggest that we all engage in railing against another enemy:California. After all, it's California and, thus, it will be easy to do. What is it with those people?
They want us to buy their wine and their cheese. They expect us to go to their movies and drink their orange juice. They burn more gasoline than any other state in the Union and buy all their cars from foreign countries. Yet! . . . and Yet, they refuse to let us have access to ouroil underlying the Continental shelf. Every time I hear Ahnuld KBM Schwarzenegger on this topic I'm thinking Danny DeVito was the nice twin.
So their it is. Let's join hands, sing Kumbaya, and rage against tree-huggers in La La Land.
Cheers,
Ed Arcuri
P.S. KBM=Kennedy by marriage.
P.P.S. I have family in California, so don't go too hard on 'em.

[Sal Collaziano]

Has everyone here gone crazy? The admins should BAN union discussions because they CANNOT BE HAD without mindless name calling!

[NfamousZ24]

Where do you people get that they are striking because of pay? Where do you get that they are making $27 an hour? I don't know how much they make. But what I do know is that they are not striking because of Pay, Safety, Or even Line Speed Ups. They are striking because JCI is not recognzing them. I tell you one thing those 170 people probably know who the 2 are that tried to cross the picket line though. lulz

*** Edit **** Ok so it is going to be about pay after they are recognized. UAW wants Johnson Controls to pay about another $3 an hour to around $12- $15 an hour. Pretty much the payscale of what the competition Lear pays it's workforce. JCI doesn't want to give up the cost advantage it has on Lear.

[blawrence73]

Originally Posted by roteague

It is time to break the UAW, before it breaks the US auto makers.

TOTALLY AGREED! Or, require the overseas automakers that are producing cars in the U.S.,to be members of the almighty UAW. Would be very interesting to see how the tables might turn.

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by Sal Collaziano

Has everyone here gone crazy? The admins should BAN union discussions because they CANNOT BE HAD without mindless name calling!

It can and it should. The fact is too often it does not but sometimesit does. You can't ban union talk on an automotive forum. They only way it coudl happen is if the unions were gone too. If that's what it takes, then I stand behind a ban in that case.

[johnnyl321]

Wow. Such passion fueled by ire and desire!! I was raised in Wilmington, DE. Small town that's probably best known here for having the only Solstice/Sky plant. Before then, it was Saturns, Olds, Buick, Pontiac and a whole bunch of Chevettes in the 70s.
These were the kinds of jobs that Bruce Springsteen sang about....construction, assembly lines, mills, etc. The "tough" jobs. And how many of the kids born in the early 60s heard these tunes and got these jobs and figured "cool, set for life. don't need college, I'll make good money, buy a nice house, new cars every couple of years and a boat and a beach home and retire with my GM pension." Why shouldn't they think that? Their moms and dads were doing it. Delaware has both GM and Chrysler plants and these assembly line workers made pretty good coin for doing it.
But how come no one made advance notice of the hangover that was comin' after this wild party? Each and every years since the 90s, American vehicle ownership has been declining. Didn't we see the Japanese infiltration, followed by the German, Korean and Swedish? And GM couldn't prepare for this??? Worse yet, the UAW couldn't prepare for this either? Did you always expect to receive 90% of your income when laid off?
Unfortunately, there's plenty of blame for all 3 sides. Management, workers and customers. Customers can be truly fickle. I think GM got into trouble by trying to have too much gadgetry, when it should have been focused on quality. Now, they build a car that's every bit as tight as the imports....but is it too little, too late? When I say managers, I mean the upper execs at GM, to the suits at the plants.....too many chiefs, not enough accountability, too many times of receiving a "bonus" when your company or your plant is LOSING money. That's not even remotely funny to someone that works damned hard, and they have to take a layoff slip. Although, it's kind of hard to cry about some of the union auto workers.....to get laid off is to receive 90% of your pay thru a fund set up by the union. Smart idea, but doesn't that also have an incentive to remain laid off?

[mike's 01ws6]

Originally Posted by 1999 White C5 Coupe

Anyone that buys a new GM vehicle should expect quality and/or reliability problems due to the widespread labor unrest with GM employees.

I bought a new 2008 Impala LTZ and it was delivered with problems and defects. Soon, the airbag system malfunctioned due to defective wiring.

I am a long-time, loyal GM customer - but the writing is on the wall. Unhappy and bitter employees produce problem vehicles.

You probably need the blame supplier of the mexican made harness or the supplier of the airbag, GM makes neither of these parts, assembly workers (UAW) just put them in.