UAW local members strike at GM Lansing plant

[pontiacjs]

Originally Posted by Clownzilla

Excellent point! Just becuase a person has "back breaking work" does not mean that they should get paid more. If that were the case, I should of been getting paid $150,000 a year for moving engines, gas tanks, etc. in a hot warehouse for two years when I was a teenager. Now my IT job makes me "break my mind" every day. The only difference is that I can EASILY take the majority of factory line jobs but I seriously doubt that a factory line worker could do my line of work without years of training and experience. That is why I am worth more and the majority of UAW workers are worth less.

your job could easily be filled by someone from India for a third the price. Do not kid yourself that you are not in the next industry to fall prey to someone over seas willing to work for 15k or less per year.

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

Metrology, I program coordinate measuring machines and work in PCDMIS
and Unigraphics. It is not that I have no skill set to fall back on. The point I still try to make is no matter what skill set you attain, if the man wants to ship it out your screwed. I salute those with balls enough to fight for a fair standard of living.

We use PCCMIS at my place too. Our CMM operators use it, but I'm not familiar with it personally. The CAD course I took in school was Unigraphics NX2. I liked it. I got good enough at, that I did my own exam and another guy's exam and still finished before everyone else.

I salute those that better themselves through education of any kind. Be it on the job, or bought and paid for ahead of time. Knowledge is power. When you stop learning, you might as well stop living.

[TruckMan]

Originally Posted by pontiacjs

What did your folks do for a living? Did you grow up in a nice house with two cars in the garage? Did most of your high school buddies graduate and go on to college? When your folks only make 20k a year you do not grow up with those privaleges.

Actually, no. I was the first person in my family to go to college. My dad was an electrician at a refinery, my mom a secretary at school. I didn't grow up with squat. I bought my first car when I was 20. Didn't get a driver's license till I was 18. It took me almost 7 years to graduate college, but I did it.

The problem I see is that people, especially the union people, want all the good perks, but they're not willing to do anything to earn them - except strike. They think they're entitled to all the things other people have just because they've joined a union.

[silvergoat2k6]

I'm just glad my job can't be outsourced...it's kind of difficult to just pick up a nuclear power plant and move it to China or India. Last I checked, everybody still needs electricity and most likely will well into the future.

[marinerbc]

Originally Posted by lowsl2

Seriously, you guys that bash unions have no idea what you're talking about. You don't even know what the strike is about and you're already jumping to conclusions. How about we wait to hear what each side has to say then you can go back to calling guys like me fat, retarded, lazy and greedy.

Not at all. The trouble lies when the more radical of your membership makes statements such as this:

I think it's an ideal time for the UAW to bring the ship to its knees so that maybe management will look in the mirror. I doubt it and I figure the ship will sink and all the muppets will blame the UAW.

Do we tar everyone with the same brush? Not at all. But some impressions last a long, long time. Want to rehabilitate your image? Talk about saving GM Ford and Chrysler in North America, and not bringing them to their knees.

You see, the ship won't care when it operates out of China, which has HUGE growth potential for GM.

Originally Posted by Bvonscott

We need to not bash union members who post on this site. I welcome them and any info they can bring to us. Same with dealership employees like myself. Obviously being in the Auto Industry we are all tied together.

Agreed. But let's not let hyperbole rule, and instead hear concrete solutions for concrete problems. Talking revolution (on either side) serves no one.

Originally Posted by lam

GM's pension is overfunded by over $20 billion, also new hires gets 401k.Come January 2010,GM will no longer give out healthcare with the start of VEBA, with VEBA ,healthcare will become the UAW's job.By 2011 GM's cost will be in-ine with Toyota.

And is this not a good thing? If your employer is on equal footing with the competition, does that not help ensure your job?

Originally Posted by hunchman

I got rid of my 03 cavalier(made in lordstown) and replaced it with a canadian made corolla(cambridge ontario) did you know the line rats at cambridge make more than those at lordtown?

Just curious; getting rid of a GM car for a Toyota makes you popular on a GM Forum..how again? (Except that most GMi posters hate GM Small cars, so you may have hit a nerve with them....hmmmm.)

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by marinerbc

Not at all. The trouble lies when the more radical of your membership makes statements such as this: "I think it's an ideal time for the UAW to bring the ship to its knees so that maybe management will look in the mirror. I doubt it and I figure the ship will sink and all the muppets will blame the UAW."

Lets not forget this gem from CAW Local 222 president Chris Buckley: "General Motors is the enemy, brothers and sisters."

I don't have a link to the article from the Windsor Star where I got it from. But I posted the full article when it came out, over at SaturnFans.com. The link will take you to the thread.

Statements like that, especially by the leadership of the unions is what breeds the disdain that many of us holds for them. If you're working for the enemy, I suggest you search alternative employment immediately.

[Acidspider]

Originally Posted by Uzzy

Lets not forget this gem from CAW Local 222 president Chris Buckley: "General Motors is the enemy, brothers and sisters."

I don't have a link to the article from the Windsor Star where I got it from. But I posted the full article when it came out, over at SaturnFans.com. The link will take you to the thread.

Statements like that, especially by the leadership of the unions is what breeds the disdain that many of us holds for them. If you're working for the enemy, I suggest you search alternative employment immediately.

Statements like that are taken out of context. GM is not the enemy in a sense that the Union hates GM, they are the emeny in a sense that they are eliminating jobs, trying to cut pay and benefits etc,etc. And I think that would hit home with everyone here if it was happening to you. So in that sense any employer would be an enemy.

Im mean look at American Axel, their CEO made over 250 million dollars in the last 10 years and he wants to cut his employee's benefits and pay in half, what kind of message does that send to people?

[marinerbc]

For what it's worth, (and it's not worth much) I just think that throwing rhetoric (on BOTH sides) back and forth only serves to heighten tensions.

People are much more likely to be conciliatory at the bargaining table if they aren't throwing insults at each other..IN MY OPINION.

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by Acidspider

Statements like that are taken out of context. GM is not the enemy in a sense that the Union hates GM, they are the emeny in a sense that they are eliminating jobs, trying to cut pay and benefits etc,etc. And I think that would hit home with everyone here if it was happening to you. So in that sense any employer would be an enemy.

How can you better contextualize "The company that we work for is the enemy"? I certainly can't. And like I said, the moment my employer becomes my enemy is the moment I seek alternative employment, no matter what the context is.

[Acidspider]

Originally Posted by Uzzy

How can you better contextualize "The company that we work for is the enemy"? I certainly can't. And like I said, the moment my employer becomes my enemy is the moment I seek alternative employment, no matter what the context is.

Tell that to the Sit-downers, who took the company head on and raised the standard of living for millions of Americans. They didnt just up and quit.

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by Acidspider

Tell that to the Sit-downers, who took the company head on and raised the standard of living for millions of Americans. They didnt just up and quit.

In a time before labour laws and human rights codes. Those things exist now. So does the media, to an immensely greater extent than it did in those times. Those were the times when unions were needed and relevant. those times are long gone now.

[bow]

Those were the times when unions were needed and relevant. those times are long gone now.

In keeping with the spirited debate on this subject, I have to disagree with that statement. Unions are needed more today than most any time in their history. All you have to do is look at the anti-union posts in these threads to see why. Most of you that make the posts will not see it this way, but they are elitest views and views that helped fan the labor movement.

You simply advocate lower wages based on education and the type of work that is being done. Alot of you say that if you don't better yourself through education then you do not deserve to be anything more than on the roles of the working poor. So many people are getting educations today that a simple batchelors degree is loosing its luster and the employers are seeking people with masters and Phd's. A batchelors degree used to be a ticket to a better paying job, now it gets most people there very own cubicle on an open concept floor.

Unions will always fight the elitests views. They will fight upper managements arguments that they are paid too much while they get obscene wages at the expense of the union workers. People shout out about the global economy and market values of a job. If that is the case, then make these claims for across the board. Bring CEO's and white collar jobs salaries into the global economy and market value. Base them on what they make in Japan, India, Pakistan and other nations. After all, you are basing labors prices on those countries pay scales.

Economists and government officials are starting to see the need for a more organized labor force. They are looking at the long term effects that lower wages are going to have on the US economy and it is starting to wake them up. Once again the US is starting to take the lead in this area. Labor unions are once again growing, growing in the retail, service and white collar entry level. In a perfect world there would be no need for a union. But in the never ending drive for more profits, bigger bonuses and a greater divide between rich and poor, the union is needed. Unions are not out to destroy companies, everyone would lose if that were the case. A person on a good union wage is one less person that is considered the working poor and one less person that needs welfare assistance that comes out of my pocket.

So argue your case, a debate is a wonderful right of all Americans. Just try not to be so elitest about it, that is the one thing that surely raises the hackles of any hard working American.

[prowlerjc]

Sounds like someone's bought into the 'class warfare' thing.

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by prowlerjc

Sounds like someone's bought into the 'class warfare' thing.

The union's strategy is divide and conquor. So, I guess if everyone is getting bachelor's degrees, the only sensible thing to do is not get a degree of any kind and expect to get paid just as much...makes sense...

[bow]

Sounds like someone's bought into the 'class warfare' thing.

Excellent insight. From this union mans viewpoint that is a sad thing as I bet it is for the non union man. We agree on something.

The union's strategy is divide and conquor. So, I guess if everyone is getting bachelor's degrees, the only sensible thing to do is not get a degree of any kind and expect to get paid just as much...makes sense

Ahh Uzzy, always so angry. So instead of staying in school to get a masters just go work for a union. Either way, you make more money. Seems there is a whole new sector the employers have found to exploit. Thanks for pointing that out.