UAW local members strike at GM Lansing plant

[TJ95GAGT]

This whole striking, standard of living decreasing non sense is getting old. My family consists of 6 people, 2 parents, 4kids. When I was 12 -13yrs old, about 12yrs ago, this is the scenario my parents faced:
February: bought thier first home after living with my grandparents for 8yrs.
March: Mom writes first mortgage payment, later that day my dad comes home with no job. Have little savings due to Februaries purchase of said home. He was making $19/hr at a nonunion dupont print site. He went to work FT at his PT job he had been carrying at $15/hr. My mom worked her $8/hr PT job in the evenings so there was no childcare expense, my brothers are 8 and 10yrs younger than I. This goes on for a year or two. Dad goes back to old job under a new company but alot of the same management. He works for a couple years and the site is closed for good.

After that he's on unemployment while at the skills center learning a trade, pipefitting. They supported our family on my dads $10/hr job he landed after the skills center and my moms $8/hr PT job in an area that wasn't a low cost of living area. After 6yrs Dad is making more than he ever would at the print site at the same company that started him at $10/hr. There was no expensive vacations, dad had an mid 90's Toyota pick up and mom drove a 92 Astro van until 2005. They didn't pay for my college, we didn't have 100 channels on the TV.

Bottom line is ***** happens, gotta find a way to get through it. I hope these guys striking has to go through what my parents did, its a real eye opener thats for sure. Got me working at a young age and taught me some real life lessons thats for sure. I probably learned more from them in that time that will carry me through life than the 5yrs I spent in college and for that I'm grateful.

[mike's 01ws6]

Originally Posted by Jedi

Yeah, Im so sick of this union crap! Move it all out of the country. How do they expect to climb out of when you have employees that wont work. If the rest of us pulled this crap we wouldnt have jobs. They need to suck it up, they already are over paid for what they do!

If nobody was working then there would be no vehicles on the lots, right? Get your facts straight moron.

[CaptainDan]

Originally Posted by Old Dood

Now who's FAULT is that?
These company's profits or lack there of?

Is that the workers's fault? Or was it the companies over playing their greedy little hands?

The workers did not set up this economy.
They are a part of it and it does take TWO to Tango.
However, it was not the workers that thought of exploting other countries for their low wages.
It was the Companies that did this.
They were not happy enough with the profits they had they just all had to meddle in other country's affairs.

This is capitalism (Corporatism) at it's worst and now the companies want to blame everyone else but themselves.

Our Standard of Living has been dropping in this country.
This is not the 'Worker's Fault'.
This is a planned event for a long time coming.

Get out and READ for a change instead of simply blaming the lowest people on the ladder.

Now, don't go blaming everybody but yourself (I read THAT somewhere). Sure, management gets greedy, but don't go claiming sainthood so fast. There's plenty of greed to go around! You may attribute everything purely to "the company", but the workers demands are indeed PART of the cause. As you said, it takes two to tango.

Any company, even down to the small mom and pop operations, have to exist in the market. If the employees demand higher wages than the competitors, the owner will HAVE to look elsewhere, or go out of business.

The only way to EARN more wages, is to be of more value. That has generally been done through increasing productivity. That can be through learning to do your job better. But any job where the primary function is physical, there is an upper limit how good you can do the same job. At that point, perhaps automation may improve productivity. Either way, once you hit that dead end, you will then need a new job, a new skill, to increase your value. You can't expect to do the same thing forever, and expect the value of that job to increase. Somehow, somewhere (could be "foreign", could be right here, just down the road) that productivity increase will happen. If your company is contractually obligated to continue paying more for that, then they are LOSING that money. As their competitor can sell their product at a better price. And no, it isn't always some "foreign" company either.

And if this "planned event" was so obvious to you, then I would assume that you would get out of such a dead end position, and train for a more "valuable" job before you ARE out on the street.

[steined]

Originally Posted by pontiacjs

What happens when your child has lukemia? Your garbage insurance only works when you do not get sick or need it. $12 per hour? Wow what a great life this guy is got. That means he will take home about $1,200 per month. $600 per month for his piece of crap ghetto apartment, $100 for gas and electric, $100 for cell & cable & phone, $100 per month to keep his 94 astro minivan on the road, $100 per month for auto insurance, and $200 left over to feed him and his family? Get real.

What American Axle is doing to their employees is criminal. Could your parents survive on half thier income? Could they have sent you to college? Did they take you on a nice vacation once a year when you were young? Did they have at least one new car every few years? Did you grow up in a nice nieghborhood? Did they schools you attended have a large percentage of kids that went on to college?

You union bashers just don't get it.

My "garbage" insurance has a lifetime maximum payout of $5 million dollars. I'd say that should cover a whole lot. Not to mention it is a PPO, not an HMO. And $600 for a ghetto apartment!? Wow.. I paid $750 for a luxury 2 bedroom before I bought my house. My mortgage isn't much more then that $750 either!

[paul8488]

The French strike all the time, but only when it's nice and warm out. I think they have it right.

[TJ95GAGT]

Originally Posted by steined

My "garbage" insurance has a lifetime maximum payout of $5 million dollars. I'd say that should cover a whole lot. Not to mention it is a PPO, not an HMO. And $600 for a ghetto apartment!? Wow.. I paid $750 for a luxury 2 bedroom before I bought my house. My mortgage isn't much more then that $750 either!

Thank you for posting that. I was about to dig up my Fiance's paper work. She had similar insurance when a job she took didn't have insurance. It was $100/month, she had no problems visiting her regular doctor, had a hospital stay and didn't pay anything different than normal. Individual insurance isn't bad unless you have REAL health issues, than its expensive or you get turned down.

[Old Dood]

Man, you act like it's a big conspiracy... like the Warren Buffets, the Donald Trumps, and the Bill Gates's of the world all get on a conference call and have a group discussion on "how to screw the little guy". Get real.

Who said any of thise people are 'Elite'?
Having money is not how you define being part of the Elite...

Power is.... Money is only a tool for people with real power.

I do not expect most of you here to 'Get It'.
I do know only a handfull will.
That is all one can do...is reach a few at a time.

If people in this country would simply stop fighting themselves and actually worked together we would see 'powerful change'.
The ones that have us basically in slavery day in and day out would tremble in fear.
There is no such thing as a coinicidence. This stuff just doesn't 'happen'.

If anyone 'thinks' that groups of people in power for years cannot fool the masses for all of those years...then think again.

We for one are living in a Coporate State Now. Have been a least as far back as 1913.
That is Corporatism....look it up and see what that is equal too.
That HAS been the plan and you know what? It is working because people only want to hear what they want to hear.

Take 1:51:16 and learn a few things....
Link: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...80303867390173

This is only a TINY Tid Bit of what is happening. It is a good eye opener though.
Especially since we just finished Tax Season.
Anyone that has watched that and has questions you can PM me. I do not want to answer anything in this thread.
that is out of respect to the Staff here....

I do not tell you all this so I can feed my Ego.
I tell you all this because I care about each and every one of you and your families.

We NEED to WORK TOGETHER!

[JT87]

Originally Posted by pontiacjs

You are the exception. And with the shrinking middle class it will be harder to do.

What service industry are you in? Have you ever worked in a factory? It is a gruelling, never ending piece of crap job that wears you out. You are on your feet all day doing the same thing every day day in and day out. Your hands hurt, your back is destroyed, your body and mind just gets worn out. They should be paid a fair wage and $12 per hour is not a fair wage.

Why do you begrudge someone a decent income?

Being on both sides of the fence, I think I can relate well.

Neither of my parents have a large annual income (total around 60k Canadian a year for the family... Even less now that both parents have health issues that limits their working ability). However, through good money management, they have helped pay my sister's way through her Master's Degree, helped me with my rent and schooling costs, away from home for the past couple of years, no mortgages (both their home and a rental property are fully paid off), travel back to the home country every couple of years, and take care of all of my aging grandparents. For one, they don't live above their means. We don't have expensive cars, our house isn't unnecessarily big, we don't own a boat, etc. Granted, we do have so called 'unlimited/universal' health care, but its not great. My father had to wait months to have surgery on his shoulder that rendered him unable to work for many months (bone deposits growing into some nerves). My mother has had a yearlong battle with rheumatoid arthritis, and finally is getting treatment by the 'appropriate' doctor (jockeyed around by doctors before getting sent to a specialist). Given lost wages, health insurance would be affordable. Compared to some people I work with, who yearn for payday to come every week, or beg for overtime shifts to cover the bills, makes me wonder what the hell they are doing wrong.

Likewise, as a 3rd year engineering and management student, I am making the most money of anyone in my family. I work as a student at GM Oshawa as an absentee line worker, and as a bartender at my campus bar. Factory work is VERY tedious. Some jobs can be extremely hard on certain parts of your body, especially joints and fingertips. Hours are long (I work midnights), but, I do get paid very well. Working 2 jobs while having 30+ hours a week is very tiring, but it will get me out of university debt free (5 years at almost 20k a year for schooling costs = lots of debt for a typical student/family). Friends who are away doing engineering internships make in a week what i do in just over 2 shifts, which I think is ridiculous. A just wage is a just wage, but a guy driving a forkilft or a part truck should NOT be making that much more than an engineer that has such a huge impact on quality, safety and productivity (also, given the ratio of line workers to engineers... that gap is further widened as a total percentage of worker pay).

For the money that UAW/CAW workers get paid, GM (and others) might as well replace their workers with engineers and technicians who strive for quality and productivity, while making the same wage that a non-skilled worker would make

[psece]

Originally Posted by Old Dood

We NEED to WORK TOGETHER!

A strike is working together. They just forgot to invite GM management and white collars to the party ;-)

[TheGeneral]

Wow if The UAW put GM or any of the big 3 out of business. It would affect everyone. Doctors, teachers and bankers it would be unbelievable. The ripple affect would be huge.

[Ming]

It's a sad situation. But as long as the UAW can't organize Toyota and Honda plants, GM will be at a disadvantage, and it's hard to sympathize with the UAW when Toyota workers keep voting that they don't need Union membership. It starts to look like the primary role of the UAW is living in the past and sucking the sinking Domestic Automakers dry --- while the Toyota plant down the road keeps humming along.

The UAW will have sympathy and support from me only when/if they can convince Honda and Toyota workers here in the US to Unionize.

[gardnet1]

Originally Posted by lineworker

I am going to the union hall shortly,I will explain why we went on strike later. GM has been dragging their heels on a local contract for 7 months now. Sadly someone has to draw a line in the sand.

Obviously it was a very important strike issue as the line workers don't even know why the strike was called.

[Tony_the_Tiger]

To all you union bashers and whiners on here; Wages are about 9% of the cost of auto/truck manufacturing but seem to be responsible for about 90% of the blame for all the problems in the industry. The problem is "PRODUCT" but it is easier to blame the workers than it is to fix the problem. That $70.oo per hour is also fiction as the big auto companies seem to have a set of books for everybody.
Anyone who thinks concessions will bring lower prices is a dreamer - The US pays lower wages now and all we got was higher prices and a BONUS for the big shots........
- Have a nice day -

[TrackRat]

Originally Posted by Uzzy

The chimp better be good at programming Allen-Bradley and Omron PLCs, and have a decent grasp of Auto-Cad.

Out of curiosity, what does your job entail?

I harbour no ill will to union members, but many of them do seem to have a grudge with the companies they work for. I can also tolerate opposing views. I came out swinging in this tread, I'll admit, but I was frustrated. The other Union vs. Corporation threads I was in were quite tame. I joined this one late.

Metrology, I program coordinate measuring machines and work in PCDMIS
and Unigraphics. It is not that I have no skill set to fall back on. The point I still try to make is no matter what skill set you attain, if the man wants to ship it out your screwed. I salute those with balls enough to fight for a fair standard of living.

[Clownzilla]

Originally Posted by Uzzy

I worked in fast food (Wendy's) for 4 1/2 years. I also worked in housekeeping at a hospital for two summers. I currently work in a factory, but not as a line worker, I'm an engineer. I do not begrudge people making a fair wage, but I do not believe that $30+/hr is a fair wage for the work they do. They should not be making $50-$90 thousand dollars per year for the work that the majority of them do. It is truely and honestly minimum wage work for the most part. How is it not? What about the jobs commands more than $8-15/hr, except for the fact that the people doing them want to make more money so that they do not need to go and better themselves to get higher paying non-factoy type jobs?

I also think the cost of post-secondary school education is too high in both Canada and the US and it is out of reach of too many people. But on the other hand, I see people throwing their parents money away at school all the time. A friend of mine has been going to college since 2001 and has only taken one year off in that time. He has yet to earn a degree or diploma in anyhting.

Call me crazy, but I don't think someone should be paid extra for back breaking work that requires no skill. I think they should do whatever they can to do either develop skills and move away from there that way, or find another job that requires no skill but is easier on the body. These types of jobs were never intended to be carreers, just a way of making money until something good came along.

And don't bother going from the automotive line to fast food .The only difference between fast food and automotive assembly line is the fast and slow periods happen hourly instead of yearly and they pay minimum wage. Other than that, the work is almost identical.

Excellent point! Just becuase a person has "back breaking work" does not mean that they should get paid more. If that were the case, I should of been getting paid $150,000 a year for moving engines, gas tanks, etc. in a hot warehouse for two years when I was a teenager. Now my IT job makes me "break my mind" every day. The only difference is that I can EASILY take the majority of factory line jobs but I seriously doubt that a factory line worker could do my line of work without years of training and experience. That is why I am worth more and the majority of UAW workers are worth less.