UAW local members strike at GM Lansing plant

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by pontiacjs

What did your folks do for a living? Did you grow up in a nice house with two cars in the garage? Did most of your high school buddies graduate and go on to college? When your folks only make 20k a year you do not grow up with those privaleges.

Yes, I did, but both of my parents did not grow up like that. They were both very poor growing up. They made something of themselves regardless. So don't tell me only rich kids get to go to college, they were both poor and both went to college.

[pontiacjs]

Originally Posted by Uzzy

Yes, I did, but both of my parents did not grow up like that. They were both very poor growing up. They made something of themselves regardless. So don't tell me only rich kids get to go to college, they were both poor and both went to college.

You are the exception. And with the shrinking middle class it will be harder to do.

What service industry are you in? Have you ever worked in a factory? It is a gruelling, never ending piece of crap job that wears you out. You are on your feet all day doing the same thing every day day in and day out. Your hands hurt, your back is destroyed, your body and mind just gets worn out. They should be paid a fair wage and $12 per hour is not a fair wage.

Why do you begrudge someone a decent income?

[pontiacjs]

Originally Posted by TruckMan

Once again, entitlement clogs the brain...

$12 per hour is more than what I was making when I worked my way through college and paid for my own health insurance. My parents didn't pay. That's also why they invented grants and student loans. Now I make way more than that. If it's not enough pay, get a better job, or a second job, or a better education. Nobody said you are stuck forever in that one job.

when you went to college the average cost of tuition and room and board were close to 9500 to 10000 per year. Now that same school is 18 to 20k per year and that health care that you bought through the school is no longer that cheap.

[MadTruckMan]

Originally Posted by steined

$12 an hour can EASILY cover health insurance. Health insurance isn't that expensive in this country. If you want unlimited health insurance, like most people in the US have, it is expensive, but I have INDIVIDUAL health insurance and it costs me less than $1000 a year. That's less than $100 a month. I have to pay for the first $2300 in expenses, so I save that much in a savings account in case I have to use it (about $200 a month). What happened to people taking responsibility for things like this? Why is it ok to spend $400+ a month on a car payment, but people are unwilling to pay $300 a month for health insurance and that savings account? Some people pay $130 a month for cable, and that's ok, no one demands universal cable coverage (yet), but they demand UNLIMITED health insurance for FREE. It just isn't right or American.

you must be single with no family. we were quoted just the other day 600 a month for a family for a SUPPLEMENTAL plan. and i know of no one (even at my good union auto wages) that pays 130 bucks a month for cable. if you are, here is help: www.directv.com they can help you with that problem...posts like this need to be banned from stories like this. they do nothing but incite people with false and misleading information. BOARD MODS: HEAR OUR CRY!!!

[BurnOut]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

I feel the love, I'm always amazed when the pedigree carrying, high school drop-out slaming experts chime in on the wage issue.Perhaps it might sink in to the PhD toting gurus to look at their own skill sets. If a high school drop-out can command the same wage or more than the those who spent mommy and daddies money to go to the Institute of I Know It All. Your time would be better spent increasing your own skill sets so you can command a better return for you time spent working instead of using it to attack those who have what you covet. Lets not kid ourselves , for every low wage Foreign grunt used to take a line workers job ,there is a PhD packing wizard just waiting to step in to the lime light for a nickel on the dollar. Its not just the high school drop-outs who can't compete in the global wage roulette game that is being played. Spend time trying to raise the standard of living in this country instead of sniping at those who are at least putting forth the effort to hold the line.

If all of the educated people went out and fought for higher wages, then YOUR standard of living would decline significantly.

• Doctors would make more, so health care would cost even more than it does now.
• TVs, computers, and other household electronics would cost more because those kinds of things are designed by some pretty educated folks.
• Gasoline would cost even more than it does now because the chemists who formulate the blends would make a lot more (this is saying nothing of the geologists who find the oil or the mechanical engineers who design machinery to extract the oil)
• Houses would cost more because architects would get big raises.
• Cars would cost more because the engineers who design them would make a lot more.

Do you see where I am going with this? At that point, assembly workers would decide that they need to make more (than they currently do) in order to be able to afford any of the things mentioned above... and once again, the more educated folks would go out and fight for higher wages and then...

Look, just admit that manufacturing is not the backbone of the economy in this country like it once was, and you'll begin to understand why many people (who have no personal stake in the situation) say that the unions need to go.

[Old Dood]

Originally Posted by Uzzy

Yes, I did, but both of my parents did not grow up like that. They were both very poor growing up. They made something of themselves regardless. So don't tell me only rich kids get to go to college, they were both poor and both went to college.

So did my parents.
My Father especially was DIRT POOR.
Born in 1922 and born 1st Generation German American.
Think how his life was growing up. Always 'wanting' to Be American but, America hated him anyways. HATED!
His Father (my Grandfather that I never met) died in the 1936 strikes in Flint.
I listened to my Father try to explain how different it was back then and the NEED for a Union.
Same applies today.
Unions RAISED our Standard of Living in this Country.
For Union & Non Union alike.
Once the Unions were under attack (their Union Management were NOT Angels either) then our Standard of Living DROPPED in this country.

So yes, my Parents 'did it'. It was a TOTALLY different time as well.
What remains the same is Fairness for all. Not just the Elite Few!
We should be banding together instead of tearing ourselves apart.
The Elite in this Country Love watching us do that to ourselves.
We take away Our Own POWER when we do that.

WE DO THAT! TO OURSELVES! All the while the Elite sit back and chuckle...

[TrackRat]

Originally Posted by Uzzy

Maybe someone who's job could probably be replaced by a well trained chimp shouldn't be so smug. We're not jelous, we're just trying to make you realize you are easily and quickly replaced. We are less expendable, but often not irreplaceable.

Glad your the volunteer to be the focal point of the big head society. Is it hard to get through the door with that swelled of a head? Don't kid yourself
with your self importance there is a chimp with your name on it too!

Absit invidia its simply a view A contrario.

[pontiacjs]

Originally Posted by BurnOut

If all of the educated people went out and fought for higher wages, then YOUR standard of living would decline significantly.

• Doctors would make more, so health care would cost even more than it does now.
• TVs, computers, and other household electronics would cost more because those kinds of things are designed by some pretty educated folks.
• Gasoline would cost even more than it does now because the chemists who formulate the blends would make a lot more (this is saying nothing of the geologists who find the oil or the mechanical engineers who design machinery to extract the oil)
• Houses would cost more because architects would get big raises.
• Cars would cost more because the engineers who design them would make a lot more.

Do you see where I am going with this? At that point, assembly workers would decide that they need to make more (than they currently do) in order to be able to afford any of the things mentioned above... and once again, the more educated folks would go out and fight for higher wages and then...

Look, just admit that manufacturing is not the backbone of the economy in this country like it once was, and you'll begin to understand why many people (who have no personal stake in the situation) say that the unions need to go.

They do. Doctors, Nurses, architects did get and are getting big increases to thier income compared to 10 years ago.

If we demanded as Blue cross blue shield members that our doctors, nurses, and adminstrators cut their pay in half because they are not competitive as health care providors as they are in Asia or other third world countries, don't you think that they would raise a rukus.

[paul8488]

Genuine question... do Mexican GM plants ever go on strike? Do they have unions there?

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by pontiacjs

You are the exception. And with the shrinking middle class it will be harder to do.

What service industry are you in? Have you ever worked in a factory? It is a gruelling, never ending piece of crap job that wears you out. You are on your feet all day doing the same thing every day day in and day out. Your hands hurt, your back is destroyed, your body and mind just gets worn out. They should be paid a fair wage and $12 per hour is not a fair wage.

Why do you begrudge someone a decent income?

I worked in fast food (Wendy's) for 4 1/2 years. I also worked in housekeeping at a hospital for two summers. I currently work in a factory, but not as a line worker, I'm an engineer. I do not begrudge people making a fair wage, but I do not believe that $30+/hr is a fair wage for the work they do. They should not be making $50-$90 thousand dollars per year for the work that the majority of them do. It is truely and honestly minimum wage work for the most part. How is it not? What about the jobs commands more than $8-15/hr, except for the fact that the people doing them want to make more money so that they do not need to go and better themselves to get higher paying non-factoy type jobs?

I also think the cost of post-secondary school education is too high in both Canada and the US and it is out of reach of too many people. But on the other hand, I see people throwing their parents money away at school all the time. A friend of mine has been going to college since 2001 and has only taken one year off in that time. He has yet to earn a degree or diploma in anyhting.

Call me crazy, but I don't think someone should be paid extra for back breaking work that requires no skill. I think they should do whatever they can to do either develop skills and move away from there that way, or find another job that requires no skill but is easier on the body. These types of jobs were never intended to be carreers, just a way of making money until something good came along.

And don't bother going from the automotive line to fast food .The only difference between fast food and automotive assembly line is the fast and slow periods happen hourly instead of yearly and they pay minimum wage. Other than that, the work is almost identical.

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by paul8488

Genuine question... do Mexican GM plants ever go on strike? Do they have unions there?

No. No unionized plants there.

[roofer]

Genuine question... do Mexican
GM plants ever go on strike? Do they have unions there?
i don't think they do strike they just jump the border and get a american job

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

Glad your the volunteer to be the focal point of the big head society. Is it hard to get through the door with that swelled of a head? Don't kid yourself
with your self importance there is a chimp with your name on it too!

The chimp better be good at programming Allen-Bradley and Omron PLCs, and have a decent grasp of Auto-Cad.

Out of curiosity, what does your job entail?

Originally Posted by TrackRat

Absit invidia its simply a view A contrario.

I harbour no ill will to union members, but many of them do seem to have a grudge with the companies they work for. I can also tolerate opposing views. I came out swinging in this tread, I'll admit, but I was frustrated. The other Union vs. Corporation threads I was in were quite tame. I joined this one late.

[BurnOut]

Originally Posted by Old Dood

So did my parents.
My Father especially was DIRT POOR.
Born in 1922 and born 1st Generation German American.
Think how his life was growing up. Always 'wanting' to Be American but, America hated him anyways. HATED!
His Father (my Grandfather that I never met) died in the 1936 strikes in Flint.
I listened to my Father try to explain how different it was back then and the NEED for a Union.
Same applies today.
Unions RAISED our Standard of Living in this Country.
For Union & Non Union alike.
Once the Unions were under attack (their Union Management were NOT Angels either) then our Standard of Living DROPPED in this country.

So yes, my Parents 'did it'. It was a TOTALLY different time as well.
What remains the same is Fairness for all. Not just the Elite Few!
We should be banding together instead of tearing ourselves apart.
The Elite in this Country Love watching us do that to ourselves.
We take away Our Own POWER when we do that.

WE DO THAT! TO OURSELVES! All the while the Elite sit back and chuckle...

Man, you act like it's a big conspiracy... like the Warren Buffets, the Donald Trumps, and the Bill Gates's of the world all get on a conference call and have a group discussion on "how to screw the little guy". Get real.

Listen, my parents both come from humble beginnings, too... my mom's dad took off when she was still a little girl, and her mom died when she was 12. She moved in with her grandmother in Kenosha, WI who she couldn't stand, and left the house when she was 16... she never even graduated from high school and ended up with a GED instead. No one in the family ever had money... my mom made her own way from the time that she was 16.

My dad was born on a small farm outside of Clovis, NM. My grandparents, at the time, were dirt farmers. I say that because that was their most successful crop... dirt. They were broke to the point that they had to pay the midwife who handled my aunt's birth with a sack of potatoes. I'm not kidding. Nonetheless, they worked hard, my dad worked hard in school and got a scholarship to college.

Today, though no longer married, both of them live comfortable, middle class lives. They both had their share of hardships, bad luck, and "thin" times, but they made it work. Sure, there were times when they had to go without... but again... they worked through it. Here's the kicker: they both did it without ever having joined a union. How 'bout that?

My parents aren't the only 'boomers I know to have come from humble backgrounds to being comfortably middle class... so either I am surrounded by an unusually high number of truly extraordinary people, or it's not as impossible as people seem to think it is. While it'd be pretty neat if it was the former, I'm putting my money on the latter.

I'll be the first to admit that the cost of higher education has risen significantly since then, even adjusting for inflation. Conversely, there are now more grants, tuition assistance programs, etc... than there used to be, too. Just look at the military... my dad got drafted, but there was none of this "serve 4 years and earn $40k towards college" business. That just wasn't an option.

The long and short of it is, cry me a river about the demise of the middle class, there being no way to put your kids through school, you can't raise a family on $14/hour (somehow my girlfriend and her two sisters made it when their mom made less than that, though), etc... but I have to conclude that it CAN be done if you want it bad enough.

[BurnOut]

Originally Posted by pontiacjs

They do. Doctors, Nurses, architects did get and are getting big increases to thier income compared to 10 years ago.

If we demanded as Blue cross blue shield members that our doctors, nurses, and adminstrators cut their pay in half because they are not competitive as health care providors as they are in Asia or other third world countries, don't you think that they would raise a rukus.

It certainly would, but it won't happen. Why? Because those people are in fields that CAN'T be outsourced. How is a doctor going to diagnose you from India if you're in Indiana? How is a nurse in Viet Nam going to give you your medication if you're in Virginia?

In regards to pay, those people's wages have been determined by the market... at some point, hospitals were having problems finding nurses willing to work there for X dollars per year... so they started offering X + $1k, or $2k, or whatever. Eventually, they came up with a compensation level that was attractive enough to bring in the quantity and quality of the people that they wanted. Why shouldn't manufacturers have the same right?