Honda and UAW Clash over new factory jobs

Buick61 · 10-11-2007, 01:20 PM

I didn't see this posted. It's from yesterday's WSJ

Residency Rules Exclude
Most Union Members;
Indignant in Indiana
By NEAL E. BOUDETTE
October 10, 2007; Page A1

ANDERSON, Ind. -- When Honda Motor Co. announced last year that it was building a new plant amid the farms of southeastern Indiana, Hoosiers cheered. Then Honda announced in August that only people living in 20 of the state's 92 counties could apply for jobs -- a move that excluded most of the state's thousands of unionized laid-off auto workers.

Honda's unusual hiring restriction highlights an often overlooked aspect of the United Auto Workers union's declining power. While Detroit's big auto makers and their unionized suppliers have been slashing jobs, wages and benefits, foreign car companies have added U.S. plants and created thousands of new automotive jobs. Yet they have effectively kept auto workers with UAW membership cards out of their factories, hampering the union from gaining any foothold where the jobs are.

Of the 33 auto, engine and transmission plants in the U.S. that are wholly owned by foreign companies, none have been organized by the UAW, despite repeated attempts. Mainly, foreign auto makers have located plants in Southern states where the UAW has little presence and where right-to-work laws limit union power. When they have ventured into Northern states such as Indiana and Ohio, they have mostly chosen rural locations far from any unionized plants and UAW halls. The moves now are helping the foreign-owned plants begin to lower wage scales.

In the case of Honda's latest plant, in Greensburg, Ind., the company received $140 million in tax breaks and other incentives, at least $50 million of it in statewide funds. But the company wasn't required to consider all state residents for jobs.

Margaret Ward is one of the people excluded. The UAW member spent 10 years assembling car components in Anderson, just outside the Honda hiring zone. Along with about 1,500 other people, she lost her job early this year when a former General Motors Corp. lighting factory closed, the last of three auto-related factories to close in Anderson. After spending six months on unemployment assistance, she's working at a battery plant. "I don't feel like this is fair to anybody in this area, to anybody in the state," she says.

Under the National Labor Relations Act, companies cannot discriminate against workers because of affiliation with a union. They are, however, allowed to restrict hiring to certain geographical areas if they have a legitimate business reason for doing so, a spokeswoman for the National Labor Relations Board said. UAW officials are gathering information in hopes of filing official complaints with the NLRB or possibly the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission.

Honda spokesman David Iida said the Greensburg hiring policy is not intended to prevent union members from applying. The auto maker just wants workers to live within an hour's drive of the plant so they can get to work on time even in bad weather, he said. The area does include a UAW-organized plant in Indianapolis and one organized by the International Union of Electrical Workers in Connersville, both of which closed and together idled about 1,500 people. Honda won't accept applicants from outside the hiring zone who would be willing to move into it, Mr. Iida said, because that could slow down Honda's "aggressive launch schedule" to start production in late 2008.

Many UAW members don't believe Honda's rationale, noting thousands of workers from shuttered or downsized plants in Muncie, Fort Wayne and Kokomo are excluded along with those who worked in Anderson. "I've probably had 100 people ask me what's going on down there because they can't apply for jobs," said Ollie Dixon, a city councilman in Anderson and vice president of UAW Local 663. "I think it's directly related to the union. They don't want people who are going to go in there and support the union."

Some states have required that companies benefiting from government incentives spread the rewards broadly. Indiana didn't. A spokeswoman for Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels said that Honda, as a private company, is free to define its hiring process as it wishes. The first-term Republican, known for dissolving the unions representing state employees after his election, didn't discuss the hiring policy with Honda while negotiating to bring the plant to Greensburg, the spokeswoman said; he was just pleased to have jobs come to Indiana.

Greensburg Mayor Frank Manus says he also was initially unaware of Honda's plan. But in a telephone interview, he said he believed a desire to keep its plant nonunion was "certainly a factor" in the company's decision to restrict its hiring.

Honda plans to hire 2,000 production workers in Greensburg, where basic wages will start at just under $15 hourly and rise to $18 over the next two years. In Big Three assembly plants, UAW workers get about $26 an hour. Until recently, nonunionized plants owned by foreign auto makers have paid close to that -- about $24 an hour -- which helped damp worker interest in unions.

As eroding membership and contract concessions hurt the UAW's ability to keep up a wage standard, foreign makers have begun lowering what they offer. In Greensburg and elsewhere, wages are pegged to the average of all manufacturing jobs in the areas, not just auto plants.

Indianapolis, about 50 miles northwest of Greensburg, is the only big city in Honda's hiring zone. It also is the only place in the hiring area where major UAW locals are located. The rest of the zone is predominantly rural and has few manufacturing workers. UAW members in Indianapolis are free to seek jobs in Greensburg, Mr. Iida says. Ms. Ward counters that despite some layoffs, most UAW members in Indianapolis are employed and don't need Honda jobs, unlike in Anderson. "We have a lot of people in Anderson who need jobs, but we can't apply," she says.

Honda's policy in Greensburg is a departure from the way it and other foreign auto makers have previously staffed plants in the U.S. Several years ago Honda put a plant in Lincoln, Ala., and took applicants from anywhere. It ended up hiring workers from 60 of Alabama's 67 counties, according to the company. The state, which had provided Honda with $158 million in incentives, required the company to consider workers from across the state. "We wanted to spread the opportunity across our state and wanted plants to be able to hire the best people in the state," said Calvin Miller, director of the Alabama's Talladega County Economic Development Authority.

African-American leaders also have questioned whether Honda's hiring plan discriminates against black workers. The population of the 20-county hiring zone is 80% white, with almost all of the nonwhites living in Marion County, where Indianapolis is located. In the hiring zone's other 19 counties, the population is 96% white. "I think it's wrong and unfair," said James Burgess, president of the Madison County NAACP in Anderson, of Honda's hiring policy.

Much much more, HERE

markusername · 10-11-2007, 01:43 PM

This is one of the biggest reasons why Honda makes Billions of dollars in profit and is known for efficiency and good products.

Now only if GM could also learn how to keep union people out of the factory maybe GM would be in better shape.

solman98 · 10-11-2007, 01:56 PM

Looks like they played their cards right.

Poor UAW...

**paul8488** · 10-11-2007, 02:06 PM

Seems kind of unfair, but at the same time, can you blame them? I couldn't imagine Honda being excited about hiring back 1200 ex-union members, who would be just raring to sign up again.

prowlerjc · 10-11-2007, 02:06 PM

Life is a series of choices, and every choice involves a loss. Some moreso than others.

Sal Collaziano · 10-11-2007, 02:14 PM

Poor UAW. Tick, tock, tick, tock...

"After spending six months on unemployment"... Well there you have it. That's where $70 an hour UAW employees end-up after losing their job. All those valuable skills and six months on unemployment...

Futher... Why is it becoming a racial issue now? Is there ANY reason why ANYBODY would want to higher white people over black people? If so, what are the reasons?

Minnesota Nice · 10-11-2007, 02:25 PM

I support the UAW 100%, but I do see where the criticism lies in Unions.

However, Honda's argument does seem logical, but I'm not sure I support it. I guess as long as they are employing American workers either way.

mikesright · 10-11-2007, 05:11 PM

This is borderline discrimination and at least unethical, period.

Watch how quickly their policy gets shut down and how quickly they'll get sued.

Havasavana · 10-11-2007, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minnesota Nice

I support the UAW 100%, but I do see where the criticism lies in Unions.

However, Honda's argument does seem logical, but I'm not sure I support it. I guess as long as they are employing American workers either way.

To me the flaw in their logic, or maybe the window into their real logic, is that they won't hire people who agree to move within the approved area. Also, it seems that Cincinnati is outside their area even though it's clearly less than 50 miles from Greensburg and well under an hour's drive.

VibenPontiac · 10-11-2007, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Honda won't accept applicants from outside the hiring zone who would be willing to move into it, Mr. Iida said, because that could slow down Honda's "aggressive launch schedule" to start production in late 2008.

What a bunch of BS! Its one thing to say we won't offer moving assistance but to basically say nope we don't care if you want to move and get the job, you're S"*t out of luck is just full of it. What ever happened to hiring the best workers. I'm no supporter of the UAW but I am a supporter of law and order and this screams of a blatant attempt at circumventing the laws on the books.

TJ95GAGT · 10-11-2007, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sal Collaziano

Poor UAW. Tick, tock, tick, tock...

"After spending six months on unemployment"... Well there you have it. That's where $70 an hour UAW employees end-up after losing their job. All those valuable skills and six months on unemployment...

Futher... Why is it becoming a racial issue now? Is there ANY reason why ANYBODY would want to higher white people over black people? If so, what are the reasons?

Because 80% of the hiring area is white, its not fair that more white people chose to live in that area.

LoveMyCentury · 10-11-2007, 05:43 PM

Wow...so basically MY tax dollars helped pay to put this plant in MY state, and if I felt so inclined to apply for a job there, I CAN'T because I live too far away.

Someone better give me a flippin refund. This is just shady.

BurnOut · 10-11-2007, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TJ95GAGT

Because 80% of the hiring area is white, its not fair that more white people chose to live in that area.

I hope that you're being sarcastic.

To imply that race is an issue is ridiculous; union mentality, now THAT I see as a factor, and I fully understand why Honda doesn't want to deal with it.

As for them setting wages at the same level as other manufacturing jobs in the same area, good for them... that is (apparently) what the job is worth.

BurnOut · 10-11-2007, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoveMyCentury

Wow...so basically MY tax dollars helped pay to put this plant in MY state, and if I felt so inclined to apply for a job there, I CAN'T because I live too far away.

Someone better give me a flippin refund. This is just shady.

By that logic, MY tax dollars helped to pay for those Air Force F/A-22 Raptors being built across town, so I should be able to go take one for a spin when I want to.

LoveMyCentury · 10-12-2007, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BurnOut

By that logic, MY tax dollars helped to pay for those Air Force F/A-22 Raptors being built across town, so I should be able to go take one for a spin when I want to.

No. You must go through the proper channels to be given the opportunity to be trained and deemed qualified to fly. Kinda like a job, huh? You apply, get trained and are essentially deemed qualified to build cars. It's just that I as a resident of Northwest Indiana (and someone as a resident of Fort Wayne, Anderson, what have you) should all have an equal chance. The idea, or so I understand it, is that this factory would benefit the state as a whole as well as the area it was located in. So why can't all of Indiana attempt to benefit from something it helped pay to get?

10-11-2007, 01:20 PM	#1 (permalink)
Buick61 7.0 Liter LS7 V8 Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: DC Metro Area Drives: 58 Belvedere; 61 LeSabre; 96 Fleetwood; 07 SRX Posts: 8,495	Honda and UAW Clash over new factory jobs I didn't see this posted. It's from yesterday's WSJ Residency Rules Exclude Most Union Members; Indignant in Indiana By NEAL E. BOUDETTE October 10, 2007; Page A1 ANDERSON, Ind. -- When Honda Motor Co. announced last year that it was building a new plant amid the farms of southeastern Indiana, Hoosiers cheered. Then Honda announced in August that only people living in 20 of the state's 92 counties could apply for jobs -- a move that excluded most of the state's thousands of unionized laid-off auto workers. Honda's unusual hiring restriction highlights an often overlooked aspect of the United Auto Workers union's declining power. While Detroit's big auto makers and their unionized suppliers have been slashing jobs, wages and benefits, foreign car companies have added U.S. plants and created thousands of new automotive jobs. Yet they have effectively kept auto workers with UAW membership cards out of their factories, hampering the union from gaining any foothold where the jobs are. Of the 33 auto, engine and transmission plants in the U.S. that are wholly owned by foreign companies, none have been organized by the UAW, despite repeated attempts. Mainly, foreign auto makers have located plants in Southern states where the UAW has little presence and where right-to-work laws limit union power. When they have ventured into Northern states such as Indiana and Ohio, they have mostly chosen rural locations far from any unionized plants and UAW halls. The moves now are helping the foreign-owned plants begin to lower wage scales. In the case of Honda's latest plant, in Greensburg, Ind., the company received $140 million in tax breaks and other incentives, at least $50 million of it in statewide funds. But the company wasn't required to consider all state residents for jobs. Margaret Ward is one of the people excluded. The UAW member spent 10 years assembling car components in Anderson, just outside the Honda hiring zone. Along with about 1,500 other people, she lost her job early this year when a former General Motors Corp. lighting factory closed, the last of three auto-related factories to close in Anderson. After spending six months on unemployment assistance, she's working at a battery plant. "I don't feel like this is fair to anybody in this area, to anybody in the state," she says. Under the National Labor Relations Act, companies cannot discriminate against workers because of affiliation with a union. They are, however, allowed to restrict hiring to certain geographical areas if they have a legitimate business reason for doing so, a spokeswoman for the National Labor Relations Board said. UAW officials are gathering information in hopes of filing official complaints with the NLRB or possibly the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. Honda spokesman David Iida said the Greensburg hiring policy is not intended to prevent union members from applying. The auto maker just wants workers to live within an hour's drive of the plant so they can get to work on time even in bad weather, he said. The area does include a UAW-organized plant in Indianapolis and one organized by the International Union of Electrical Workers in Connersville, both of which closed and together idled about 1,500 people. Honda won't accept applicants from outside the hiring zone who would be willing to move into it, Mr. Iida said, because that could slow down Honda's "aggressive launch schedule" to start production in late 2008. Many UAW members don't believe Honda's rationale, noting thousands of workers from shuttered or downsized plants in Muncie, Fort Wayne and Kokomo are excluded along with those who worked in Anderson. "I've probably had 100 people ask me what's going on down there because they can't apply for jobs," said Ollie Dixon, a city councilman in Anderson and vice president of UAW Local 663. "I think it's directly related to the union. They don't want people who are going to go in there and support the union." Some states have required that companies benefiting from government incentives spread the rewards broadly. Indiana didn't. A spokeswoman for Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels said that Honda, as a private company, is free to define its hiring process as it wishes. The first-term Republican, known for dissolving the unions representing state employees after his election, didn't discuss the hiring policy with Honda while negotiating to bring the plant to Greensburg, the spokeswoman said; he was just pleased to have jobs come to Indiana. Greensburg Mayor Frank Manus says he also was initially unaware of Honda's plan. But in a telephone interview, he said he believed a desire to keep its plant nonunion was "certainly a factor" in the company's decision to restrict its hiring. Honda plans to hire 2,000 production workers in Greensburg, where basic wages will start at just under $15 hourly and rise to $18 over the next two years. In Big Three assembly plants, UAW workers get about $26 an hour. Until recently, nonunionized plants owned by foreign auto makers have paid close to that -- about $24 an hour -- which helped damp worker interest in unions. As eroding membership and contract concessions hurt the UAW's ability to keep up a wage standard, foreign makers have begun lowering what they offer. In Greensburg and elsewhere, wages are pegged to the average of all manufacturing jobs in the areas, not just auto plants. Indianapolis, about 50 miles northwest of Greensburg, is the only big city in Honda's hiring zone. It also is the only place in the hiring area where major UAW locals are located. The rest of the zone is predominantly rural and has few manufacturing workers. UAW members in Indianapolis are free to seek jobs in Greensburg, Mr. Iida says. Ms. Ward counters that despite some layoffs, most UAW members in Indianapolis are employed and don't need Honda jobs, unlike in Anderson. "We have a lot of people in Anderson who need jobs, but we can't apply," she says. Honda's policy in Greensburg is a departure from the way it and other foreign auto makers have previously staffed plants in the U.S. Several years ago Honda put a plant in Lincoln, Ala., and took applicants from anywhere. It ended up hiring workers from 60 of Alabama's 67 counties, according to the company. The state, which had provided Honda with $158 million in incentives, required the company to consider workers from across the state. "We wanted to spread the opportunity across our state and wanted plants to be able to hire the best people in the state," said Calvin Miller, director of the Alabama's Talladega County Economic Development Authority. African-American leaders also have questioned whether Honda's hiring plan discriminates against black workers. The population of the 20-county hiring zone is 80% white, with almost all of the nonwhites living in Marion County, where Indianapolis is located. In the hiring zone's other 19 counties, the population is 96% white. "I think it's wrong and unfair," said James Burgess, president of the Madison County NAACP in Anderson, of Honda's hiring policy. Much much more, HERE __________________ Used to own: 1959 Cadillac Series 62, 1960 AMC Rambler Six, 1998 Chevrolet Malibu, 2000 Saturn LS2, 2005 Chrysler 300C, 2006 Pontiac G6 GTP

10-11-2007, 01:43 PM	#2 (permalink)
markusername 3.8 Liter Supercharged V6 Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 670	Re: Honda and UAW Clash over new factory jobs This is one of the biggest reasons why Honda makes Billions of dollars in profit and is known for efficiency and good products. Now only if GM could also learn how to keep union people out of the factory maybe GM would be in better shape. Last edited by paul8488 : 10-11-2007 at 02:04 PM. Reason: Looking for a fight

10-11-2007, 01:56 PM	#3 (permalink)
solman98 3.9 Liter V6 Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 822	Re: Honda and UAW Clash over new factory jobs Looks like they played their cards right. Poor UAW... __________________

10-11-2007, 02:06 PM	#4 (permalink)
paul8488 GMI Staff Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: France Drives: 2007 MBK Flipper Scooter Posts: 13,352	Re: Honda and UAW Clash over new factory jobs Seems kind of unfair, but at the same time, can you blame them? I couldn't imagine Honda being excited about hiring back 1200 ex-union members, who would be just raring to sign up again. __________________ *The department of redundancy department.*

10-11-2007, 02:06 PM	#5 (permalink)
prowlerjc 5.3 Liter Vortec V8 Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,290	Re: Honda and UAW Clash over new factory jobs Life is a series of choices, and every choice involves a loss. Some moreso than others.

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10-11-2007, 02:14 PM	#6 (permalink)
Sal Collaziano 4.4 Liter Supercharged Northstar Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: West Palm Beach, Florida, USA Drives: 2005 Cadillac Escalade ESV, 2007 Chrysler 300C Posts: 2,094	Re: Honda and UAW Clash over new factory jobs Poor UAW. Tick, tock, tick, tock... "After spending six months on unemployment"... Well there you have it. That's where $70 an hour UAW employees end-up after losing their job. All those valuable skills and six months on unemployment... Futher... Why is it becoming a racial issue now? Is there ANY reason why ANYBODY would want to higher white people over black people? If so, what are the reasons? __________________ --> Millions of car and truck videos! --> allcarvideos.com __________________ Cadillac Magazine / Buick / Pontiac / Hyundai Genesis / Chevy Last edited by Sal Collaziano : 10-11-2007 at 02:21 PM.

10-11-2007, 02:25 PM	#7 (permalink)
Minnesota Nice 6.0 Liter Vortec V8 Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Minneapolis Drives: 2006 Honda Civic Si Posts: 1,655	Re: Honda and UAW Clash over new factory jobs I support the UAW 100%, but I do see where the criticism lies in Unions. However, Honda's argument does seem logical, but I'm not sure I support it. I guess as long as they are employing American workers either way. __________________

10-11-2007, 05:11 PM	#8 (permalink)
mikesright 3.6 Liter V6 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Des Moines, IA Drives: 2009 Mercury Mistress Posts: 1,100	Re: Honda and UAW Clash over new factory jobs This is borderline discrimination and at least unethical, period. Watch how quickly their policy gets shut down and how quickly they'll get sued. __________________ 1,000 Posts, baby!

10-11-2007, 05:43 PM	#12 (permalink)
LoveMyCentury 3.5 Liter V6 Join Date: Jan 2006 Drives: 2001 Buick Century Custom Posts: 222	Re: Honda and UAW Clash over new factory jobs Wow...so basically MY tax dollars helped pay to put this plant in MY state, and if I felt so inclined to apply for a job there, I CAN'T because I live too far away. Someone better give me a flippin refund. This is just shady.

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