GM won't commit to Oshawa plant, Hargrove says

[Uzzy]

^^^^ I wanna be there when you propose that to John and Gus, seriously!

[K Dawg ONE]

Originally Posted by Uzzy

^^^^ I wanna be there when you propose that to John and Gus, seriously!

What? You dont think it will go well? If they say no, ill just wedge my car in the front door so no one can get in...that should guarnatee that theyll give me what I want wont it?

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by K Dawg ONE

What? You dont think it will go well? If they say no, ill just wedge my car in the front door so no one can get in...that should guarnatee that theyll give me what I want wont it?

If you need the number for Redmond's town, let me know he's a buddy of mine...cause that's where your car will be. Or maybe everyone will just buy Nissans or Volkswagens instead.

[K Dawg ONE]

Originally Posted by Uzzy

If you need the number for Redmond's town, let me know he's a buddy of mine...cause that's where your car will be. Or maybe everyone will just buy Nissans or Volkswagens instead.

LMFAO! LOL! Have you seen the new Tiguan? Maybe I can intrest you in one of those...hahaha

[the_smurf2008]

I am of the opinion that the unions on both sides of the border have no desire to accept the obvious . The market has changed, and if trucks are not selling then HOW would GM be able to keep those plants open.

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by the_smurf2008

I am of the opinion that the unions on both sides of the border have no desire to accept the obvious . The market has changed, and if trucks are not selling then HOW would GM be able to keep those plants open.

The UAW and CAW have no use for things like the obvious, or statistics, or buisiness plans, or market research. They want as many people employed as possible, which gets them as much union dues heading their way as possible and that is their bottom line. Facts, figures and practiclity mean nothing to them.

[Voice-O-Reason]

Originally Posted by MadTruckMan

the car plant is. the truck plant is not the best in quality...fort wayne is

um... Oshawa and Fort Wayne have continually traded awards back and forth for years. To say one is better than the other is ludicrous.

The plant that should have been closed is Pontiac!

[Voice-O-Reason]

Originally Posted by the_smurf2008

I am of the opinion that the unions on both sides of the border have no desire to accept the obvious . The market has changed, and if trucks are not selling then HOW would GM be able to keep those plants open.

Nobody believes that ALL the GM truck plants should remain open. With all of them going to one shift, it is obvious they have over capacity in this market. The beef here is that GM promised to keep this plant open, in a signed contract, just two weeks prior to the announcement to close it.

They had to know the market conditions during the contract negotiations. Why did they make the promise in light of those conditions?

I'm not a union supporter but had the CAW been told that they needed to make bigger concessions or the plant would be closed, during the negotiations, don't you think they would have tried harder to stay competitive?

[K Dawg ONE]

Originally Posted by Voice-O-Reason

They had to know the market conditions during the contract negotiations. Why did they make the promise in light of those conditions?

As ive said before, on one side, I agree with you. Its a pretty big decision that couldnt have possibly been made overnight. They mustve known for weeks they were gonna cloe er down right?

HOWEVER...

On the flip side of the coin, EVERY other MFGR seemed to shut down truck production litterally overnight. SO, if Honduh, Ford, Toyota, etc, all were able to shut on a whims notice, why is it so hard to beleive that GM didnt just make the decision overnight?

[BigAls87Z28]

If this plays around with Camaro, Im gunna have a heart attack.

[JT87]

Originally Posted by K Dawg ONE

As ive said before, on one side, I agree with you. Its a pretty big decision that couldnt have possibly been made overnight. They mustve known for weeks they were gonna cloe er down right?

HOWEVER...

On the flip side of the coin, EVERY other MFGR seemed to shut down truck production litterally overnight. SO, if Honduh, Ford, Toyota, etc, all were able to shut on a whims notice, why is it so hard to beleive that GM didnt just make the decision overnight?

It seems as though GM Corp had more than thought that Oshawa was shortlisted to close, however it seemed that GMCL negotiators didn't get the memo (deceptive on GM Corp's part, less so on GMCL's part, in respect to the decision). Now, I'm not advocating that any plant stay open to build vehicles that don't sell, since most of the truck plants are running 1 shift. Nor, am I advocating that GM Corp and GMCL keep Oshawa open at ALL costs. I'm advocating that GM live up to its contractual obligations to seek a proper resolution.

The contract states that, should there be a market shift, and changes are to be made, the company would notify the union and would discuss alternatives (buyouts, increased attrition, decreased production rates, reduce/eliminate contract workers, etc). GM has not done that. GMCL agreed that Oshawa would be the lead 10XX truck plant. GM Corp said no.

[hotrod1949]

Originally Posted by JT87

It seems as though GM Corp had more than thought that Oshawa was shortlisted to close, however it seemed that GMCL negotiators didn't get the memo (deceptive on GM Corp's part, less so on GMCL's part, in respect to the decision). Now, I'm not advocating that any plant stay open to build vehicles that don't sell, since most of the truck plants are running 1 shift. Nor, am I advocating that GM Corp and GMCL keep Oshawa open at ALL costs. I'm advocating that GM live up to its contractual obligations to seek a proper resolution.

The contract states that, should there be a market shift, and changes are to be made, the company would notify the union and would discuss alternatives (buyouts, increased attrition, decreased production rates, reduce/eliminate contract workers, etc). GM has not done that. GMCL agreed that Oshawa would be the lead 10XX truck plant. GM Corp said no.

You just hit the nail on the head.Although I do not for a second believe that GMCL can sign anything without Corporate approval, GMCL would have known no futre truck product.

This is a P.R nightmare for G.M, even union bashers locally are suggesting GM breached their agreement with the Union, and if they can't be trusted to be honest with their employees, how will they treat a customer?

[fp115]

Originally Posted by hotrod1949

You just hit the nail on the head.Although I do not for a second believe that GMCL can sign anything without Corporate approval, GMCL would have known no futre truck product.

This is a P.R nightmare for G.M, even union bashers locally are suggesting GM breached their agreement with the Union, and if they can't be trusted to be honest with their employees, how will they treat a customer?

Yes GMCL can sign without Corporate approval so long it deals with Canada and only Canada. In this case its CAW which is Canadian owned and operated.

Where is this PR nightmare as you keep on claiming? I don't see it anywhere. Worse comes to worse, CAW keeps acting this selfish why would GM even want to stay in Canada? Typical answer coming from a plant member about trust, how does making a blockade that cost many hours of lost work or a motorcade that cost 130 lost vehicles make GM trust the union?

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by fp115

Where is this PR nightmare as you keep on claiming? I don't see it anywhere.

The only place I've heard any murmurings of a PR nightmare ofr Gm are the handfull on here than keep claiming it.

[hotrod1949]

Originally Posted by fp115

Yes GMCL can sign without Corporate approval so long it deals with Canada and only Canada. In this case its CAW which is Canadian owned and operated.

Where is this PR nightmare as you keep on claiming? I don't see it anywhere. Worse comes to worse, CAW keeps acting this selfish why would GM even want to stay in Canada? Typical answer coming from a plant member about trust, how does making a blockade that cost many hours of lost work or a motorcade that cost 130 lost vehicles make GM trust the union?

Umm, I've never worked in Oshawa, so no, it is not a typical answer, and I am sure GM expected some type of response, although they were probably hoping for a wildcat.