GM Canada workers offered rich buyouts

[tholland]

I think it's smart to structure in the vouchers along with the settlement... it insures that some of the buyout will come back as revenue.

[99coupe]

I worked for General Motors in Canada for thirty years, and I retired with a buy-out. I read most of the comments relating to CAW and UAW employees, and I must admit that people do not see what is really happening. If you went to Japan and took a picture of a city street, just how many American vehicles do you think you would see? My guess would be none. If you took a comparable picture on any American street the difference would be remarkable. Now, take into consideration that the Japanese products can be brought into the USA duty free, without any monetary penalty, and compare this to an American car being sold in Japan, the penalties and tariffs would choke a normal person. This is not Free Trade, and if there were a balance, those job cuts at General Motors would be turned around into a hiring spree. I don’t know of many people that would turn down one of those good jobs at an American Automotive plant either. The manufacturing base of the USA would not be in a free fall state; it would be healthy and thriving. I think we need to start looking at this situation by considering the root cause. Americans need to start supporting their own businesses, and start backing their own technical ability and future!

Bob

[99coupe]

Originally Posted by usa1

More buyouts = more money GM spends on getting rid of overpriced workers and less on new products. Sigh. Think of all the money they could have saved if they didn't have to piss this bribe money at the CAW and UAW.

However, it's good to see GM get this behind them. They will emerge much more competitive as a result. I just hope their money holds out long enough to get them through this all.

Mark

I worked for General Motors in Canada for thirty years, and I retired with a buy-out. I read most of the comments relating to CAW and UAW employees, and I must admit that people do not see what is really happening. If you went to Japan and took a picture of a city street, just how many American vehicles do you think you would see? My guess would be none. If you took a comparable picture on any American street the difference would be remarkable. Now, take into consideration that the Japanese products can be brought into the USA duty free, without any monetary penalty, and compare this to an American car being sold in Japan, the penalties and tariffs would choke a normal person. This is not Free Trade, and if there were a balance, those job cuts at General Motors would be turned around into a hiring spree. I don’t know of many people that would turn down one of those good jobs at an American Automotive plant either. The manufacturing base of the USA would not be in a free fall state; it would be healthy and thriving. I think we need to start looking at this situation by considering the root cause. Americans need to start supporting their own businesses, and start backing their own technical ability and future!

Bob

[fp115]

Originally Posted by 99coupe

I worked for General Motors in Canada for thirty years, and I retired with a buy-out. I read most of the comments relating to CAW and UAW employees, and I must admit that people do not see what is really happening. If you went to Japan and took a picture of a city street, just how many American vehicles do you think you would see? My guess would be none. If you took a comparable picture on any American street the difference would be remarkable. Now, take into consideration that the Japanese products can be brought into the USA duty free, without any monetary penalty, and compare this to an American car being sold in Japan, the penalties and tariffs would choke a normal person. This is not Free Trade, and if there were a balance, those job cuts at General Motors would be turned around into a hiring spree. I don’t know of many people that would turn down one of those good jobs at an American Automotive plant either. The manufacturing base of the USA would not be in a free fall state; it would be healthy and thriving. I think we need to start looking at this situation by considering the root cause. Americans need to start supporting their own businesses, and start backing their own technical ability and future!

Bob

I am not sure what you consider a Buick in China, but that is the most successful brand there with last year beating an all time sales record for more than 1m vehicles sold by any manufacturer in China.

[JT87]

Originally Posted by fp115

I am not sure what you consider a Buick in China, but that is the most successful brand there with last year beating an all time sales record for more than 1m vehicles sold by any manufacturer in China.

Vehicles in China have to be produced in China, or they face serious tariffs upon import. That is why you see companies such as GM and VW and what not creating massive joint ventures in China. Some other manufacturers create car 'kits' and ship them to China for final assembly. So far, it seems as though they are doing a good job defending their industries. Buicks made in China are not subjected to, say, the tariffs of importing Trailblazers and Corvettes into Japan.

What I think 99coupe is trying to get at is equality at the border. Every North American vehicle entering eastern Asian countries faces these tariffs. Nearly any foreignly built car entering North America (other than, I believe, trucks over 3.0L, I think?) comes here without tariffs. They are very closed when it comes to importing vehicles.

Now, I wouldn't suggest forcing every company to build every car sold here at a facility here, but it should be 'forcefully encouraged' to do so. Say, 1 of every 3 vehicles sold in Canada or the USA, one must be built (either for NA sale or export)? Otherwise face tariffs. That way, we should be able to keep our manufacturing sector a bit stronger.

[fp115]

Originally Posted by JT87

Vehicles in China have to be produced in China, or they face serious tariffs upon import. That is why you see companies such as GM and VW and what not creating massive joint ventures in China. Some other manufacturers create car 'kits' and ship them to China for final assembly. So far, it seems as though they are doing a good job defending their industries. Buicks made in China are not subjected to, say, the tariffs of importing Trailblazers and Corvettes into Japan.

What I think 99coupe is trying to get at is equality at the border. Every North American vehicle entering eastern Asian countries faces these tariffs. Nearly any foreignly built car entering North America (other than, I believe, trucks over 3.0L, I think?) comes here without tariffs. They are very closed when it comes to importing vehicles.

Now, I wouldn't suggest forcing every company to build every car sold here at a facility here, but it should be 'forcefully encouraged' to do so. Say, 1 of every 3 vehicles sold in Canada or the USA, one must be built (either for NA sale or export)? Otherwise face tariffs. That way, we should be able to keep our manufacturing sector a bit stronger.

Yeah I agree with that. That is the reason there are barely any vehicles sold by anyone but Toyota and Nissan in Japan. GM is the market leader in all but Japan and Australia. If it wasn't for Japan GM would hold up a much larger market share compared to Toyota.

However GM recently announced that they will be exporting many vehicles out of North America to China. I don't remember the number exactly, but I believe it was set to be several hundreds of thousands. But I fully agree, if our domestics are limited in other countries, why couldn't our governments also impose the same. NAFTA has introduced a slew of problems in this market, I am actually surprised nothing has been done or reviewed. We should limit import brands in North America as is done in all other markets, simply to be fair. If import brands aren't happy, they should lobby their own country to open the borders.

[Tone]

Originally Posted by 99coupe

If you went to Japan and took a picture of a city street, just how many American vehicles do you think you would see? My guess would be none. If you took a comparable picture on any American street the difference would be remarkable. Now, take into consideration that the Japanese products can be brought into the USA duty free, without any monetary penalty, and compare this to an American car being sold in Japan, the penalties and tariffs would choke a normal person. This is not Free Trade, and if there were a balance, those job cuts at General Motors would be turned around into a hiring spree.Bob

Even without trade barriers, it is hard to imagine that a manufacturer would build cars in a high-cost jurisdiction (like Canada) and then export them half way around the world. A smart, global manufacturer would build the cars in a cheap jurisdiction nearby (say, India, China or Korea), otherwise it would only be able to compete at the high end of the market (Corvette, Cadillac, etc).

Until the Canadian dollar appreciated, we were that jurisdiction for this part of the world ... with the dollar at par, we are effectively out of the low cost manufacturing business. But even with 65 cent dollar, I have a hard time imagining we could product a competitive product, at a competitive price in Oshawa to export to Japan.

My sense is that the CAW is actually lobbying for greater tarrifs on cars inported into Canada to ensure the domestic, unionized companies have an advantage here. That would mean people like me who buy cars but don't work in the industry would likely pay more for our cars ... frankly, I have a difficult time with the notion that the automotive marketplace in Canada should become more expensive and less competitive.

The unfortunate reality is that costs are not competititive for mass manufacturing in North America from a global perspective. There are a couple of answers:

- Move out of manufacturing commodity products that can be produced anywhere and focus on areas where we have specific expertise (i.e. "advanced manufacturing).

- Greater automation and fewer, but higer paid workers (which is what seems to be happening now)

- Union/workers accept a substantially lower wage/benefits package across the board to make them globally competititve. This would likely save the most jobs in the sector, but would obviously be very, very difficult on the workers. OTOH, perhaps a steady $13 per hour job is better than no job at all.

Even the "better options" (the first two) will likely result in fewer high-paying manufacturing jobs ... a difficult transition to be sure. But with decent packages (which I for one and happy to see -- these are people who have worked hard and whose lives are being changed by global economic forces) and intelligent retraining policies, I hope people will be able to move on to more sustainable jobs.

[doh]

Originally Posted by Tone

Even without trade barriers, it is hard to imagine that a manufacturer would build cars in a high-cost jurisdiction (like Canada) and then export them half way around the world. A smart, global manufacturer would build the cars in a cheap jurisdiction nearby (say, India, China or Korea), otherwise it would only be able to compete at the high end of the market (Corvette, Cadillac, etc).

Until the Canadian dollar appreciated, we were that jurisdiction for this part of the world ... with the dollar at par, we are effectively out of the low cost manufacturing business. But even with 65 cent dollar, I have a hard time imagining we could product a competitive product, at a competitive price in Oshawa to export to Japan.

My sense is that the CAW is actually lobbying for greater tarrifs on cars inported into Canada to ensure the domestic, unionized companies have an advantage here. That would mean people like me who buy cars but don't work in the industry would likely pay more for our cars ... frankly, I have a difficult time with the notion that the automotive marketplace in Canada should become more expensive and less competitive.

The unfortunate reality is that costs are not competititive for mass manufacturing in North America from a global perspective. There are a couple of answers:

- Move out of manufacturing commodity products that can be produced anywhere and focus on areas where we have specific expertise (i.e. "advanced manufacturing).

- Greater automation and fewer, but higer paid workers (which is what seems to be happening now)

- Union/workers accept a substantially lower wage/benefits package across the board to make them globally competititve. This would likely save the most jobs in the sector, but would obviously be very, very difficult on the workers. OTOH, perhaps a steady $13 per hour job is better than no job at all.

Even the "better options" (the first two) will likely result in fewer high-paying manufacturing jobs ... a difficult transition to be sure. But with decent packages (which I for one and happy to see -- these are people who have worked hard and whose lives are being changed by global economic forces) and intelligent retraining policies, I hope people will be able to move on to more sustainable jobs.

Thanks for stating it in a way I never could, but I have been saying "That a truely Global Economy, will trickle down to the workers and thier wages"

A Nations wealth will come down to thier Natual Resources, not thier manufacturing abilities. If North America wants to continue to be on the Higher wage earning scale and purchase cheaper "Made in China" products they have to expect some shaky employment, manufacturing industries etc.

Without tariffs on imported products, i.e. higher prices at Wal Mart, you can expect many more North Americain plant closures.

Canada's lumber, diamonds and oil, Saudi's Oil, USA's Agriculture, Tech, and current wealth., is the onlything that will pull us through a totally global economy. $35/hour does not compute with $5/day, no matter how you slice it.

[BlackSilverado]

Like me! I hope they reach their target of 3600 and you guys get your well deserved retirements! How bout buying a laid off me a cup of coffee? lol

[lt1george]

Originally Posted by Tony_the_Tiger

- The Oshawa autoplex union workers have won many quality and production awards for their work over the years and in my opinion this retirement incentive and buyout program is the least the company can do to reward their workers for years and years of profits.

- It is indeed an impressive package......

~

Exactly. They deserve every penny from GM.

[lt1george]

Originally Posted by doh

Thanks for stating it in a way I never could, but I have been saying "That a truely Global Economy, will trickle down to the workers and thier wages"

A Nations wealth will come down to thier Natual Resources, not thier manufacturing abilities. If North America wants to continue to be on the Higher wage earning scale and purchase cheaper "Made in China" products they have to expect some shaky employment, manufacturing industries etc.

Without tariffs on imported products, i.e. higher prices at Wal Mart, you can expect many more North Americain plant closures.

Canada's lumber, diamonds and oil, Saudi's Oil, USA's Agriculture, Tech, and current wealth., is the onlything that will pull us through a totally global economy. $35/hour does not compute with $5/day, no matter how you slice it.

Well said. Nobody ever thinks of that.

[JT87]

Originally Posted by gypsygirl5

The students (TPTs) are getting letters saying their wages are 'subject to change' in September. I imagine that means any future contract workers are in the same boat (?) Maybe this is how GM will get the $14/hour in Canada, as I don't imagine they will ever hire full-time when they now have unlimited use of temps.

Yes, we got letters about the change, word says anywhere from $14 to $17 an hour. From what my committee man had said, the company won't pay students a dollar more than new contract workers, no matter how long we have been employed for (I've been working there consistently for over a year, I know many students that have been there for at least 3 full school years, not just summers).

Future contract workers, new workers, everyone that is newly hired will have a wage within this range. From what I've heard at plants from the states, is that they are having a VERY hard time trying to hire people for ~$15 an hour, and they will have an equally hard time here. (what full time student would be willing to give up so much time out of their weekend and screw up their sleeping habits for $14 an hour, 3 days a week?)

What angers me about it is the way they are going about it all. I talked to someone at the union hall, and they said this wasn't in the agreement (another thing that was 'pulled' over our heads). Also, there is no confirmation as to the wage (I would rather be told its either a really low number or that I don't have a job, so I can tell my other work that I can work more). I haven't spoken to a student yet that said they would stay for such a wage (many drive in from 50+km, and the costs alone aren't worth it, never mind the time, weekend sacrifices, and inevitable lost homework time). Luckily for me, I already have another well paying job (not to mention fun, walking distance, and better and more flexible hours than working midnights at the plant).

I'm remaining hopeful, but as it stands, GM will lose at least 1 new sale from me.

[cmoore]

Originally Posted by JT87

Yes, we got letters about the change, word says anywhere from $14 to $17 an hour. From what my committee man had said, the company won't pay students a dollar more than new contract workers, no matter how long we have been employed for (I've been working there consistently for over a year, I know many students that have been there for at least 3 full school years, not just summers).

Future contract workers, new workers, everyone that is newly hired will have a wage within this range. From what I've heard at plants from the states, is that they are having a VERY hard time trying to hire people for ~$15 an hour, and they will have an equally hard time here. (what full time student would be willing to give up so much time out of their weekend and screw up their sleeping habits for $14 an hour, 3 days a week?)
.

I have 2 children that are fulltime students at Durham College and Ryerson that would gladly give up their minimum wage jobs at $9 per hour for a chance $14 per hour. There are not a large number of companies that pay more than that for part time.

[JT87]

Originally Posted by cmoore

I have 2 children that are fulltime students at Durham College and Ryerson that would gladly give up their minimum wage jobs at $9 per hour for a chance $14 per hour. There are not a large number of companies that pay more than that for part time.

One of my friends holds the 'stop/slow' sign and drives a pickup truck once in a while,for $14 an hour, another was an assistant manager at McDonald's for $13 an hour. I have many friends that do landscaping/interlock for $15-20 an hour. If I had a choice between working at a car plant for 15 or working landscaping for 15, I would GLADLY choose landscaping (I've done jobs ranging from cooking/catering, landscaping, retail, GM, bartending, serving, and pay being anywhere near equal, GM would be my lowest option). There are jobs out there that pay over $10 an hour, just keep your eyes open.

My suggestion to your kids would be to get some sort of job at a bar/restaurant as a server. You may only get $6-7 an hour (lower service wage) but how much you really make largely depends on how hard you work (I make more at my other job in 5 hours than I do in 8 hours at GM simply because of how hard I work). Plus, they tend to be much better jobs than the ones at a car plant. For the work you do at a car plant (especially for me, working midnights), it is a worth a lot more than the $85 net a shift ($15x8h, minus taxes, other deductions, union fee, car insurance/transportation), let alone the messed up sleeping habits, lost time for school, and an inability to take days off. I know students that drive from Kingston and London, etc, for work now, and they said they won't be coming back for $14. I even know people in Bowmanville and Whitby that say it's not worth it. However, if you believe your kids want to work there for $14 an hour, I'll gladly pick up a couple applications for you.

[sags]

Originally Posted by JT87

One of my friends holds the 'stop/slow' sign and drives a pickup truck once in a while,for $14 an hour, another was an assistant manager at McDonald's for $13 an hour. I have many friends that do landscaping/interlock for $15-20 an hour. If I had a choice between working at a car plant for 15 or working landscaping for 15, I would GLADLY choose landscaping (I've done jobs ranging from cooking/catering, landscaping, retail, GM, bartending, serving, and pay being anywhere near equal, GM would be my lowest option). There are jobs out there that pay over $10 an hour, just keep your eyes open.

My suggestion to your kids would be to get some sort of job at a bar/restaurant as a server. You may only get $6-7 an hour (lower service wage) but how much you really make largely depends on how hard you work (I make more at my other job in 5 hours than I do in 8 hours at GM simply because of how hard I work). Plus, they tend to be much better jobs than the ones at a car plant. For the work you do at a car plant (especially for me, working midnights), it is a worth a lot more than the $85 net a shift ($15x8h, minus taxes, other deductions, union fee, car insurance/transportation), let alone the messed up sleeping habits, lost time for school, and an inability to take days off. I know students that drive from Kingston and London, etc, for work now, and they said they won't be coming back for $14. I even know people in Bowmanville and Whitby that say it's not worth it. However, if you believe your kids want to work there for $14 an hour, I'll gladly pick up a couple applications for you.

I heard the other day, that the GM warehouse in Woodstock, Ontario is hiring part time temps. It's a pleasant place to work and would be closer for anyone you know driving to Oshawa from the London/Kitchener area.

I don't know how they apply though. If they are already working at GM, perhaps they could ask their supervisor about a "transfer" to Woodstock.

The shifts would probably be afternoons from 8-12 pm or something. That is when they are the busiest filling dealer orders.

Hope this helps somebody....................