Ford, Chrysler veer from GM

[plane]

2007 UAW contract talks
Bill Vlasic and Bryce G. Hoffman / The Detroit News



Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC are seeking contracts with the United Auto Workers with key differences from the deal the union reached with General Motors Corp., according to people close to the companies.

UAW President Ron Gettelfinger has yet to pick Ford or Chrysler as the next target for negotiations, but both automakers are anxious for deals that are less expensive or restrictive than the four-year pact that GM agreed to Sept. 26.

Financially struggling Ford is expected to push the UAW to accept a lower level of funding for a health care trust for its retirees, said people familiar with Ford's strategy.

Newly private Chrysler has other concerns, including getting health care concessions that GM and Ford received in 2005 and avoiding commitments to put specific new products in its U.S. assembly plants.

GM's 73,000 workers are expected to finish voting on their new contract by Wednesday; then negotiations are likely to accelerate at Ford or Chrysler -- or possibly both companies simultaneously.

Industry experts believe the two automakers will press the UAW to deviate from the deal reached at GM after marathon bargaining that culminated in a dramatic two-day national strike.

"The deal that GM got was a good one for GM, but it doesn't appear applicable for the other two," said Aaron Bragman, an analyst with research firm Global Insight.

Article continues at link...

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...0040382&&imw=Y

[JVal14]

It will be very interesting to see Cerberus dealing with the UAW. I don't know how much prior experience they have with union negotiations; but if it's limited experience, they're in for quite a treat. It sounds like they're going for something that's different than the GM deal, but still mutually beneficial. Ford, on the other hand, just sounds like they want the union to settle for less, and I'm sure the workers would just be thrilled about that. On the other hand, because the GM strike ended so quickly, and the union approval has been overwhelming, I wonder if GM left some money on the table...

[vanshmack]

Originally Posted by JVal14

...On the other hand, because the GM strike ended so quickly, and the union approval has been overwhelming, I wonder if GM left some money on the table...

Interesting point...Makes you wonder if GM negotiated this deal knowing that Ford and Chrysler couldn't or wouldn't accept it. Given the other two makers poorer financial health, they might really be over a barrell: Accept a deal with concessions but is still pricey, or refuse to follow GM's deal and have to weather a strike.

Would this not constitute a strategic advantage for GM?

[tgagneguam]

Both Ford's and Chrysler's positions-different, perhaps more generous concessions than those "given" to GM-sound reasonable.

Was DCX's board prudent in dumping Chrysler Group prior to these negotiations?

...Last year, the UAW refused to give health care concessions to Chrysler after agreeing to them at GM and Ford. Gettelfinger said the primary reason was the profitability of Chrysler's parent company, the German automaker DaimlerChrysler AG.

But losing out on the concessions -- estimated at a $300 million annual savings for Chrysler -- was then cited as a key factor in DaimlerChrysler's decision to sell the American automaker...

This is why the UAW needs to be a little more future-oriented when attempting to predict the consequences of their decisions. It's fine to attempt to extract generous benefits for their members; that's what they're paid to do, after all. But it's also reasonable to be judicious when placing those demands in the context of the longer-term viability of Union members. I'm surprised that Union members are not more displeased with their Union reps; the Union's ranks have been dramatically(!) reduced over the past two decades. It might make some wonder if the people in charge of negotiating their compensation have been thinking long-term enough. I'd tend to think "no."

[wolverine]

Originally Posted by JVal14

On the other hand, because the GM strike ended so quickly, and the union approval has been overwhelming, I wonder if GM left some money on the table...

Ummm, I don't think this "tentative agreement" is being approved "overwhelmingly" as evidenced by three General Motors plants having already voted it down. It'll probably pass with the majority of the membership, but it won't be an "overwhelming" majority.

[throwback]

Originally Posted by wolverine

Ummm, I don't think this "tentative agreement" is being approved "overwhelmingly" as evidenced by three General Motors plants having already voted it down. It'll probably pass with the majority of the membership, but it won't be an "overwhelming" majority.

Very true. Has there ever been an overwhelming majority vote for a new deal in recent histroy?

[JVal14]

Originally Posted by wolverine

Ummm, I don't think this "tentative agreement" is being approved "overwhelmingly" as evidenced by three General Motors plants having already voted it down. It'll probably pass with the majority of the membership, but it won't be an "overwhelming" majority.

According to a report from the 5th, nine locals have okayed the contract, while only three have rejected it. Of those three, one had a very narrow margin, and another represented a plant that was to be closed within a year under the contract. Even with those considerations aside, a three to one vote in favor is quite strong. A presidential vote with such results would be considered a landslide. Naturally no one can say if this trend will continue; but as of now, approval seems overwhelming, indicating that UAW members were all too happy to take the contract.

[SlySy]

Originally Posted by JVal14

It will be very interesting to see Cerberus dealing with the UAW. I don't know how much prior experience they have with union negotiations; but if it's limited experience, they're in for quite a treat. It sounds like they're going for something that's different than the GM deal, but still mutually beneficial. Ford, on the other hand, just sounds like they want the union to settle for less, and I'm sure the workers would just be thrilled about that. On the other hand, because the GM strike ended so quickly, and the union approval has been overwhelming, I wonder if GM left some money on the table...

The UAW needs to realize who the are dealing with when they are negotiating with Chrysler, They are owned by Cerberus. If the UAW doesn't give Cerberus what they want, things could get ugly. Cerberus "WILL" and I mean "DEFINITELY WILL" make billions off of Chrysler "ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. Either, The UAW "WILL NEED TOO" bend over for Chrysler or, Cerberus will simply shut the doors, part the company out and make money hand over fist.

They can sell Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Eagle, Plymouth (They still own those nameplates? N0?), Dealer network, Factories (or just the land they sit on) along with all the equipment, machines, forklifts, or just plain 'ole scrap metal. Most people don't realize that Private Equity firm is a PC term for a Corporate Raider.

p.s. I have been saying for the last three years, 1 of the Detroit Three is going out of business. Y'all want to start a pool on who it is. I say Chrysler, The UAW isn't gonna give Cerberus what they want. I'm a GM fanboy just like 80% or yous guys so definitely not them. I've been watching for years and I truly think GM has turned the corner, now their need to take their health care savings and put out some top notch vehicles, so good the rags can't even complain about them Sorry for the long post, just 1 more thing I was wondering about...

p.p.s. So GM's part of this VEBA is like 36 bil? No? Would they have been better off giving Buick 5 bil, Pontiac 5 bil, GMC 5 bil, Caddy 10 bil, Chevrolet 10 bil to invest in top notch product, and a Billion for advertising? I know Health care sux for GM, but 10 years from now, all these babyboomers are gonna start to die off, and GM could start 401k for all the new hires instead of a Pension. Am I a Tard for thinking this, or would this be better for the long run. Alright, 1 more, Sorry

I'm just a simple country boy from Nashville, not a Fortune 500 company CEO, so I don't know, just a thought I had. Think of the product they would have in 2 years if they invested all that money in building cars. They could even short each brand 1 bil and use that money on upgrading every factory in the states to flex manufacturing and be able to build anything anywhere? Maybe? No? Am I a Tard? Ok, Ok, I know I'm a tard, but is this completely off base?

[Stéphane Dumas]

Originally Posted by SlySy

They can sell Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Eagle, Plymouth (They still own those nameplates? N0?), Dealer network, Factories (or just the land they sit on) along with all the equipment, machines, forklifts, or just plain 'ole scrap metal. Most people don't realize that Private Equity firm is a PC term for a Corporate Raider.

I think they still own those nameplates as well as DeSoto, Imperial, Nash, Hudson, Willys, Kaiser, AMC but I'm not sure

p.s. I have been saying for the last three years, 1 of the Detroit is going out of business. Y'all want to start a pool on who it is. I say Chrysler, The UAW isn't gonna give Cerberus what they want. I'm a GM fanboy just like 80% or yous guys so definitely them. I've been watching for years and I truly think GM has turned the corner, now their need to take their health care savings and put out some top notch vehicles, so good the rags can't even complain about them Sorry for the long post, just 1 more thing I was wondering about...
[/quote]

I taught of another possibility, not going out of business like Studebaker but instead acquired by another automaker like AMC was and it depends who'll be the possible buyer (Renault, VW, GM, Fiat, China, India), also there in some circles in Allpar forums then some mentions then the Jeep bring a curse called "the Jeep Curse", http://www.allpar.com/model/jeep/jeep-history.html but one poster mention then GM might be the only one to break the curse.