Your tax dollars hard at work aka " - How 'bout them hybrids - in Police service"

[AMERICA 123]

Actually a very well written article worth reading in its lengthy entirety - a length that's put to good use.

So....... just the set up .

08/25/2009

Arkansas police to try hybrid fleet despite mixed results

By Ginny Laroe

Arkansas Democrat-Gazette



LITTLE ROCK, Ark. — When a thief in a stolen hybrid car smoked lawmen in Crown Victorias during a highspeed chase through Clark County earlier this year, Arkadelphia Police Chief Al Harris was impressed.

Any question his officers had about whether hybrids had the guts to be police cars was answered that night, the chief said.

This fall, the Arkadelphia Police Department will join the growing number of law-enforcement agencies across the country using hybrids when a new fleet of 2010 Toyota Camry Hybrids hits the streets of the southwest Arkansas town.

"There was probably some hesitation and some concerns" among officers, the chief said. "But again, the word gets around pretty quick - that Honda hybrid was leaving us in the dust.

They expect that performance."

Arkadelphia is thought to be the first law-enforcement agency in Arkansas to put a full fleet of hybrids on patrol.

The companies that outfit cars with police gear, the state's main training academy and various law-enforcement officials had heard of no other agencies making such a large-scale switch.

The move comes as Arkadelphia grapples with population and revenue loss, and as it tries to brand itself as a progressive place to live.

"Our plan is to do what's best for our community and try to move us forward," said City Manager Jimmy Bolt, who has led other environmental-minded initiatives in the city.

"The only way I'm going to have new revenue is by being smarter with the things I have."

As communities look for ways to save money on gas and reduce their carbon footprints, police agencies across the country have been testing hybrids on various assignments, often giving them to the top brass or detectives. -

Copyright 2009 Arkansas Democrat-Gazette

http://www.policeone.com/pc_print.asp?vid=1877244

Sure sounds good so far.

[AMERICA 123]

Now, a little later some highlights

- Still, using hybrids on patrol is largely uncharted territory, leaving open a number of questions about how well they'll perform in fast or tricky situations and how they'll hold up over the years.

"Somebody's got to ride the first rocket," Harris said. < Yep. No doubt about that. That's why they used Chimps and Dogs and Monkeys..... first >

Ditching the dinosaur

For many in law enforcement, there is only one real police car: the Ford Crown Victoria, what Ford calls the "legendary law enforcer." Ford makes a police version, called the Police Interceptor, designed to go high speeds on tires that can withstand the heat.

Other popular police cars, the Chevrolet Impala and the Dodge Charger, also come with police packages from the manufacturers, unlike hybrids.

But Arkadelphia wanted something different.

"We think the Crown Vic is a dinosaur, and it's on its way out," Bolt said.

Now, the numbers.....

The Camry - a midsized, four-door, four-cylinder sedan - is rated at 33 miles per gallon in the city, 34 miles per gallon on the highway.

The 10 Camrys, including the cost of outfitting them with police gear, had a price tag of just more than $382,000.

They cost the city about $1,500 more per unit than other mainstay police cars, but they are expected to pay off in the long run, lasting longer and using less gas, Bolt said. < I'll give 10:1 on that >

The cars will be assigned to officers and will be driven home instead of staying on the street, shift after shift. For now, six Crown Victorias will stay in the patrol rotation.

The city qualified for rural development grants from the U.S. Department of Agriculture, which is to pay 15 percent of the cost of the cars, or about $57,000.

With a population of about 10,000 and a median household income of $25,671, Arkadelphia was small enough and poor enough to get the money under the Rural Development Housing and Community Facilities Programs, said David Stowers, with the USDA based in Hope.

While many cities and counties use rural development grants for police cars, Arkadelphia is the only one in Arkansas to buy hybrids with the money, Stowers said.

And then ...... reality

Performance mixed

In Salt Lake City, a city striving to be more "green," the hybrid Camry has been great for the police chief, who drives "calmly from stoplight to stoplight" in downtown traffic, said detective Jay Rhodes, the fleet coordinator.

The car averaged 40.36 miles to the gallon for the first six months, Rhodes said.

On patrol, however, Salt Lake City's Camrys have had problems.

The suspension is not as good as traditional police cars, Rhodes said.

And, he said, officers have trouble getting suspects in the back seats because of limited foot space because of an ill-fitting police cage, Rhodes said.

The suspension issue became clear when one of the Camrys and some Impalas tore through a field on a call of shots fired.

The bottom of the Camry scraped the ground as it bounded over the undeveloped plot of land, causing nearly $3,000 worth of damage, Rhodes said. < How much fuel is that worth ? >

The Impalas, on the other hand, drove away without any damage, as the "nice, tight" suspension held up, Rhodes said.

The back-seat trouble with the cage - the partition that secures the suspect in the back, keeping the officer safe in the front - stems from the fact that no company manufactures a cage specifically to fit the Camry. So Salt Lake City police had one that was originally designed for an Impala cut down.

It left just a couple of inches on the floor for suspects to try and maneuver their feet.

"They're already not happy with you, and now you're explaining, `Sir, you need to put your foot this way,'" Rhodes said.

Also, the gas savings on patrol have been small for Salt Lake City.

A young officer who has one of the marked-up patrol units and pounds on the accelerator as he dashes from call to call is getting about 20 miles per gallon, versus about 17 in the Impalas, Rhodes said.

In El Dorado, the Union County city in south Arkansas, at least one detective is unhappy with his new hybrid Chevrolet Malibu, which is billed as the "most affordable midsized hybrid in America." "It's too small," said Sgt. Jamie Morrow, a stocky, 5-foot-10-inch man who prefers his old V8 Crown Victoria.

"It's a good-looking car, but it's just a little small for police usage." There are no plans to introduce hybrids to the fleets at the state's largest police agencies.

The Arkansas State Police, for instance, looked at buying a hybrid truck for an investigator in a rural part of the state. But the agency opted for a traditional Chevrolet Silverado at nearly an $18,000 savings, spokesman Bill Sadler said.

There has been no discussion of putting hybrids on patrol, he said.

Despite several hybrids in use by the city of Little Rock in various departments, police won't be getting any anytime soon, said Brock Vest, the city's fleet manager.

"The hybrids that are available are not pursuit-rated," he said. "Our entire patrol fleet is pursuit-rated. It would require us to change how we do patrols." He said the lack of a pursuit rating doesn't mean the hybrid can't go fast or isn't safe at high speeds.

"But it would not have the same handling characteristics as a vehicle that is rated to be a high-speed pursuit vehicle," Vest said.

Toyota says the Camry does zero to 60 in 8.9 seconds and has a top speed of 115. That's compared with top speeds of 119 or 129 for the Crown Victoria, depending on specifications.

In Salt Lake City, the Camry has not been put to the test in a pursuit. Rhodes, the detective who manages the fleet, said his agency's policy restricts pursuits to very few situations, so they are rare.

In Arkadelphia, Harris echoed that sentiment. Still, he said he is in talks with driving instructors at the Arkansas Law Enforcement Training Academy in Camden about sending a couple of the Camrys down to test, since there are no hybrids in the training fleet.

"I'm glad I'm close to retirement if this thing goes south," he said.

So.......... 17 vs 20 mpg ...... hmmmmm and 38,200 $ plus for the initial buy in.....and........ then..... and .......then......and then some more

Yep, close enough for Government work -

Now the upshot.

Just how much would a mixed fleet of Impalas and Tahoe s really cost in comparison ?

[ejfx]

that Honda hybrid was leaving us in the dust.

Thats garbage...the town probably has a "no high speed chase" rule like most other Police agencies...So one car got away and now the honda is the fastest car on the road...please

officers have trouble getting suspects in the back seats (camry hybrid) because of limited foot space because of an ill-fitting police cage, Rhodes said.

So he blames poor foot room on an illfitted cage....The camry could do no wrong in his eyes.

Just because these fools drive the camry and honda hybrids as thier personbal cars doesnt mean they are capable of handling the constant tough work conditions the Crown Vic has been handling nicely over the past decades.

I work with a guy that has a child that is a high school drop out...on drugs...and just trash...but the guy believes his child is so sweet and perfect...People are blind!

[MCGARRETT]

Not ready for prime time.

[minnfang]

The rear foot room in the Impala sucks too.

GMC should make a law enforcement version of the new Terrain. Put a 3.6 and a lowered HD suspension package in it. That thing would look like it were right out of Robocop. The rear foot room would be great with the rear seat slid back.

[GRIMEYtheFATMAN]

Originally Posted by minnfang

The rear foot room in the Impala sucks too.

GMC should make a law enforcement version of the new Terrain. Put a 3.6 and a lowered HD suspension package in it. That thing would look like it were right out of Robocop. The rear foot room would be great with the rear seat slid back.

Well, that doesn't sound any worse than a Prius or Camry hybrid...

[minnfang]

Originally Posted by GRIMEYtheFATMAN

Well, that doesn't sound any worse than a Prius or Camry hybrid...

I'm not really bashing the Impala, just pointing out one of its shortcomings that happens to be relative to this thread. Actually, I think the Impala is a very underrated car - especially for the money. It's a great value.

[prowlerjc]

The Accord hybrid has more hp, less weight, and handles better than a Crown Vic. It should outrun it with no problem.

But it's hard to outrun Motorola.

[slbviper]

Why didn't they buy a Tahoe Hybrid?
I live in Chicago and the Police department brought 2000 Tahoes, I wish they would also buy some Hybrid's

[neshapop]

Originally Posted by minnfang

The rear foot room in the Impala sucks too.

GMC should make a law enforcement version of the new Terrain. Put a 3.6 and a lowered HD suspension package in it. That thing would look like it were right out of Robocop. The rear foot room would be great with the rear seat slid back.

I don't care if some douchebag or crack dealer got stuck in tight space while the guys are giving him/her a ride to the station. Police car is not a limo service. What's next a Jacuzzi in prison cells?

[johnny smallblock]

Originally Posted by neshapop

I don't care if some douchebag or crack dealer got stuck in tight space while the guys are giving him/her a ride to the station. Police car is not a limo service. What's next a Jacuzzi in prison cells?

No one said you should like them. But tight spots lead to 2 things:
1. Cops have to deal with getting them into the car - which isn't easy to begin with)
2. If someone who is arrested twists an ankle or otherwise injures themselves getting into or out of the car, then they have to be taken to the hospital and it costs taxpayers even more.

Originally Posted by slbviper

Why didn't they buy a Tahoe Hybrid?
I live in Chicago and the Police department brought 2000 Tahoes, I wish they would also buy some Hybrid's

Tahoe hybrids cost close to 50 large. And this is a very poor district.



The NYPD started testing some Altima hybrids. They can't fit a cage in the back either, so when they make an arrest they have to call over a Crown Vic or Impala. They don't accelerate well, and you can't go up on a curb. All in all they don't like them very much. Of course, ask any cop in the NYPD and they'll tell you they really don't like the Impala either.

Of course hybrids make some sense in NYC where there's so much stop and go driving. I imagine there aren't as many lights or cars in Arkidelphia. Of course, cops drive their cars like rental beaters - and they don't pay for gas - so smooth constant acceleration isn't in the cards.

All electrics make sense - loads of torque and they can be plugged in at precincts when needed.

[Canyonaro]

Don't worry Salt Lake City is just as bad, they had bought 20 of these a year or two ago and have more on order, sellouts.

http://www.government-fleet.com/Chan...brid-Cars.aspx

[solman98]

A Honda Hybrid out ran them, so they bought Toyota Hybrids?

I would not be telling anyone that a hybrid out ran my cop cars.

[minnfang]

Originally Posted by Canyonaro

Don't worry Salt Lake City is just as bad, they had bought 20 of these a year or two ago and have more on order, sellouts.

http://www.government-fleet.com/Chan...brid-Cars.aspx

The American flag sticker on that Camry makes me want to puke. All it takes is a sticker to make them feel good about handing this country over to others one dollar at a time. What is it going to take for this country to wake up? Government entites in this country need to buy domestic vehicles if possible.

[Canyonaro]

Originally Posted by minnfang

The American flag sticker on that Camry makes me want to puke. All it takes is a sticker to make them feel good about handing this country over to others one dollar at a time. What is it going to take for this country to wake up? Government entites in this country need to buy domestic vehicles if possible.

I agree, especially with that American flag. Dare I say it happens around the entire US too often, and it needs to take a collective country to stop this! Lets start with tax dollars on how the government spends it.