Water Powered 'Fuel Cell'

[SRX7697]

Exactly

[MisterMe]

Originally Posted by Smaart Aas Saabr

You see where it mentions metal hydride... it isn't running on water just like your car engine doesn't run on antifreeze/water mix. It's using the metal hydride ($$$)

No, it is not. Lithium hydride is a hydrogen storage medium. The density of hydrogen in LiH is greater than cryogenic hydrogen. LiH would appear to have the potential to be the nearly ideal fuel storage medium for fuel cell-powered vehicles. However, the technology has been under development for years will relatively little progress. For now, the automobile industry is going with compressed hydrogen gas to power its experimental fuel cell vehicles.

To the main point: although I don't agree with his politics, I do agree with T-Keith's analysis of the OP's report. The reported water energy fuel cell is a perpetual motion machine. It is the very definition of a hoax. I also agree that claims of new miracle sources of alternative fuel sources posted to this forum are becoming really annoying.

[TuffG929]

Originally Posted by Pontiacwheels

No, this is not a good idea. There are already water shortages in much of the country and water powered cars would just make it worse.

Right. But, there is no shortage of seawater.

[Ytriox]

Originally Posted by eb110americana

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Put another way, fuel cells work by extracting the energy created as the hydrogen molecules bond to oxygen. If the system is also doing the reverse, it must use an equivalent amount of energy, thereby negating any output. And due to inefficiencies such as heat, friction, etc. it would actually use more electricity than it puts out.

The only possibility is that a catalyst or reactant of some sort is used to separate the hydrogen and oxygen components of water in the first place. If there were a substance, such as pure aluminum bonding to the oxygen to form aluminum-oxide, then hydrogen would be released. However, this would then require the external processing and input of a stabilized aluminum, so the potential energy or power, would then be stored there rather than water, per se. That's just an example though, if any number of external substances or catalysts are used for a reaction with water, then that is really the focus--which the article handily avoids.

Catalysts are components of a reaction which enable or accelerate a chemical change, but do not change themselves. Since the catalyst output of the reaction is the same as the input, catalysts cannot contribute energy. If they did, that would be "created energy" which doesn't exist outside the minds of conspiracy theorists with a poor grasp of physics and chemistry.

A reactant could, provided the energy state of the products is lower than that of the reactants, but then the fuel isn't water. It's water plus the other reactants. Calling that a "water-powered car" would be a lot like calling an ICE vehicle an "air-powered car". After all, most of what goes into the combustion chamber is air, right?

[camaro75]

I know this sounds sick but I was wondering if it runs on tea, will it run on urine? It would take away from the water shortage worries. In my house there's an endless supply of the stuff.

[crazywop112]

This technology does exist. They showed it months ago on channel 4 news. The reason no big companies are supporting it is because they feel they can't make a profit at this time.

[steverino]

There's a You Tube video of a car in France (I believe) that runs on compressed air. I think there is no shortage of air and it's free (but somebody will figure out how to tax it). The inventor is taking it to the next level where the engine creates it's own compressed air supply making it self sufficient. How wild is that.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztFDq...eature=related

[johnstarnes]

Originally Posted by ByTheLake

It would be great if some electrolysis (or equivalent) technology is developed that can extract more energy from the process than it consumes, but to date, I have yet to see anything close.

Power from water? That would mean electrical power plants located along coasts, too.

But hydrogen and oxygen don't like being pulled apart. It's certainly the "Holy Grail" of energy, and I like to be optimistic, but I'm skeptical that water will power anything more than my plants.

Also, given the astronomical gas prices, new scams are all over the Internet selling "water-powered car" plans, books, kits, etc, to a gullible audience.

Subscribe to www.spacedaily.com and you will see hydrogen breakthroughs as regards both generation and storage are being made. Electrolysis of water to get hydrogen is no longer needed, as a species of algae and bacteria each have been found that split water into hydrogen and water using sunlight as the sole energy input.

[Ytriox]

Originally Posted by steverino

There's a You Tube video of a car in France (I believe) that runs on compressed air. I think there is no shortage of air and it's free (but somebody will figure out how to tax it). The inventor is taking it to the next level where the engine creates it's own compressed air supply making it self sufficient. How wild is that.


www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztFDqcu8oJ4&feature=related

Same obstacle. That's just another storage mechanism for energy. You still have to invest energy to compress the air, and the energy you get from expanding that compressed air will always be less than it took to compress it in the first place. It can never be fully self-sufficient. Sure, there are tricks you can do to recycle some energy and maximize efficiency, but it's not a feasible perpetual motion machine (which makes sense given that there is no such thing as a feasible perpetual motion machine).

And that is really the problem with all of these alternative powertrains. They aren't sources of energy. Rather, they just store energy that we have to get from somewhere else. The real focus needs to be on maximizing non-petroleum energy sources. Wind, hydro, geo-thermal, solar, and nuclear. Biofuels can be seen as an attempt to more efficiently harness solar energy, but ultimately we're still working with a limited quantity that we're going to have use responsibly and efficiently.

[packardlust]

Originally Posted by ctaylorzl1

Dont fuel cell cars produce alot of water vapor? And If I remember rite dosent water vapor make up like 60%+ of the greenhouse gasses that contribute "global warming".

NO, Water vapor is not a greenhouse gas contributing to global warming.

[CaptainDan]

Originally Posted by AMERICA 123

Quote:
Genepax unveiled a fuel cell stack with a rated output of 120W and a fuel cell system with a rated output of 300W. The 300W system is an active system, which supplies water and air with a pump.

In the demonstration, the company powered the TV and the lighting equipment with a lead-acid battery charged by using the system.

In addition, the 300W system was mounted in the luggage room of a compact electric vehicle "Reva" manufactured by Takeoka Mini Car Products Co Ltd, and the vehicle was driven by the system.

Wow. 300 Watts. Thats like, 4 tenths of one horsepower. That'll zip you down the road!

[CaptainDan]

Originally Posted by SRX7697

there are water shortages everywhere, BAD idea. unless it can run on Salt water, than we'll end up using water supplies for power instead of drinking..

It "uses" water, and it emits water as an "exhaust". So it won't "use up" your water supplies. Of, course, that's also the reason it's not a "water powered" engine.

It is using some kind of power source (that's your power supply) to split the hyrogen out of water. Then it recombines the water, yielding energy. Of course, the energy out can NOT exceed the energy in, that's basic physics. Maybe congress has repealed the laws of physics?

That's like the steam locomotives from the turn of the century. Steam is just water, so they ran on water!

No, they ran on coal or wood, burned to heat the water. Water was just something used in the process.

[AMERICA 123]

Here is more on it.

http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english...080616/153301/

[Follow-up] Genepax President Interviewed on 'Water Energy System'

Jun 16, 2008 19:38
Kouji Kariatsumari, Nikkei Electronics



Genepax's new fuel cell system


Kiyoshi Hirasawa, president of Genepax Co Ltd, unveiled part of the reaction mechanism of the company's new fuel cell system called "Water Energy System" in an interview with Nikkei Electronics.
The system, which is capable of generating power with water and air, was first presented June 12, 2008. As reported in our previous article, the system produces hydrogen through a chemical reaction between water and a metal (or a metal compound) on the fuel electrode side (See related article).

[AMERICA 123]

And one thats related - there is a link on the page linked above.

http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english...080616/153300/

[Follow-up] Superconducting Motor to 'Come into Practical Use in 10 Years'

Jun 16, 2008 19:05
Kouji Kariatsumari, Nikkei Electronics



Prototype vehicle with superconducting motor

Motor mounted on engine block

Test ride


Sumitomo Electric Industries Ltd unveiled a prototype vehicle equipped with a superconducting motor at a press conference June 12, 2008 (See related article). The motor is a claw-pole DC motor that uses a superconducting coil as a stator and copper wire as a rotor.
The company pointed out that the main purpose of the latest development is to make people aware that the use of superconducting coils is more closely related to our everyday lives, now that rail cars such as linear motor cars, superconducting cables and shipboard superconducting motors are being commercialized.
The prototype motor is not an AC motor and the superconducting coil is not used as a rotor because the company wanted to produce a test-ride vehicle as soon as possible. In view of safety, the superconducting coil used as a stator is only supplied with a current of up to 40A, although it is able to pass currents higher than 100A, according to the company.
A 240m long bismuth (Bi) wire rod

[brianidaho]

Originally Posted by eb110americana

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Put another way, fuel cells work by extracting the energy created as the hydrogen molecules bond to oxygen. If the system is also doing the reverse, it must use an equivalent amount of energy, thereby negating any output. And due to inefficiencies such as heat, friction, etc. it would actually use more electricity than it puts out.

The only possibility is that a catalyst or reactant of some sort is used to separate the hydrogen and oxygen components of water in the first place. If there were a substance, such as pure aluminum bonding to the oxygen to form aluminum-oxide, then hydrogen would be released. However, this would then require the external processing and input of a stabilized aluminum, so the potential energy or power, would then be stored there rather than water, per se. That's just an example though, if any number of external substances or catalysts are used for a reaction with water, then that is really the focus--which the article handily avoids.

You are right and anyone that actually graduated from high school should be able to see through this. I have to wonder if the fuelcelltoday website is just another scammer site, or if they are really that lacking in basic education. Based on the number of people even here that seem to be buying into it I have to believe what is published about how badly the US is lagging in science and math education.

The real giveaway is here:

"Genepax uses a metal or a metal compound that can cause an oxidation reaction with water at room temperature, the company said. Metals that react with water include lithium, sodium, magnesium, potassium and calcium. Genepax uses a metal or a metal compound that can cause an oxidation reaction with water at room temperature, the company said. Metals that react with water include lithium, sodium, magnesium, potassium and calcium."

The reactive metal undergoing an oxidation reaction is providing the energy that is liberating the H2 and is ultimately the "fuel" for the process.