Wagoner Says Customers Didn't Want Hybrids

[MOGI]

Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda...

Know what? just keep building great full size trucks...

Get Cadillac's product up and running quick...(CTS family, STS/DTS replacement)

Keep the Malibu relevant, get the VOLT out, and announce that the BEAT is coming already for god sakes...

Talking about the past is irrelevant. i want to hear about the future and how you plane to get the value of my shares back up by introducing MORE good products...

[2002 Caddy]

Originally Posted by GMforME

This is nothing but a cheap shot. Rick had exactly zero to do with those products. Zero nada nothing.

You might want to double check who was in charge of GM NA, GM Canada, or Senior Product Planner, when all of these "cheap shot" cars were produced... Rick had his hand in many of them... Yes its true that he has only been the CEO for 8 years or so... You forget he was the CFO and head of GM NA before that and the head of GM Canada before that...He has had his finger in the product planning back to at least 1988. He has been around a LONG time. He was first hired at GM in 1977! And I don't blame him for all of the oddball cars that the General has made over the years... but you'd think he'd learn from some of the disasters... Honestly I've driven Cobalts, Cavaliers, Citations... It pains me to say... the build quality, reliability, NVH of these cars are WAY too close.

Originally Posted by GMforME

About those craptastic cars in the quoted list. Let me see. The B210 no prize,the 240Z what an unmitigated electrical and carburetor disaster. The civics of the time, you had to visit your dentist regularly to have your teeth put back in because the clutches shuddered so bad. Remember the first legends and their cousins the sterlings, what heaps. I was a wrench during that era and that foriegn stuff rusted like mad even in the deserts of Phoenix. I had a guy who lived next door to me who ran a tig welding service and he had a regular pile of alumunium import heads stacked like cordwood in need of heliarc repair around the water jackets becaust they rotted out like mad and dumped head gaskets.
Those who want to rewrite history are either to young to know the truth or you have short memories.

Not at all trying to rewrite history... Some of the cars on your list were major turds...(in spite of their cult followings) The part that you leave out is that almost ALL of them got better... Each new generation got stronger, more refined, more reliable... From this they got more market share... Over at the General... We had Rick saying "Who the heck wants a nice small car? Build them TRUCKS"... The quality of our trucks (BEST IN THE WORLD) SHOWS we could have built GREAT small cars to dominate that space... we didn't.

And as you say... the rest is history

[Wolfman01]

Originally Posted by jckjds

This is not an apology for GM's lack of foresight, but Wagoner is essentially correct. When the EV1 came out, people, by and large, did not want it. It was very expensive during a time when gas was $1 per gallon. Quite frankly, it was ahead of its time. If it had been offered in the early 2000's (like the Prius) it might have been a hit, producing more variations of the electric car.

Now, GM should have (in hindsight) continued to subsidize the EV1 and other technoloiges until they did become popular (because of rising gas prices and increased environmentalism), but that didn't happen.

The EV1 was not ahead of it's time. It was built as a mandate by CARB at the time demanding that every automaker would be required to sell a zero emission vehicle to be "allowed" to do buisness in Kalifornia, regardless if it was cost effective or not. GM was dragged kicking and screaming into the EV market then, and was more than happy to be rid of the vehicle when CARB finally backed down and removed their ZEV mandate.

GM learned the same lesson with the EV1, that Honda did with the Insight. two seat niche vehicles like this almost universally do poorly in their markets.

When Toyota introduced the Prius, it was a four door subcompact sedan. Even during cheap gas, they sold every one they imported within days. The Volt is a four door sedan for much the same reason - to attain maximum market attraction.

[tamatt27]

Geez..and all this time I though Lutz was the one who couldn't keep his foot out of his mouth!

[Vetterider23]

It is sad that our SUV and Truck sales have slammed to a halt. They truly are the best vehicles we have ever built. With that said. I feel it important to say that I am getting so tired of people saying, "OH how foolish of GM to redesign their trucks right before this big gas crunch!!!!" Did GM put a few too many eggs into one basket? Yes. Should they have continued the GMT-800 platform for another 5 years? Absolutely NOT. GM had to redesign their GMT platform. The previous product cycle was coming to an end. Its lucky for GM that they did accelerate the program. They were able to make some profit in the year or so before this nightmare happened.

[johnstarnes]

I know Wagoner can't help what he looks like, but he reminds me of "Q" on 'Star Trek: The Next Generation'. But that's not why I want to back hand him...it is his pulling down $100 million just to further screw up GM that irks me!

[Hunid Racks]

You people want to know the truth?

People still don't want hybrids. Everybody that enjoys driving will tell you, the Prius is a lousy experience. It's dynamics suck.

But people don't want to buy gas. Toyota has been sucked in every direction by every self proclaimed "expert" that the Prius is the Mustang of this generation. It isn't. It is more the Pet Rock of this era.

[ByTheLake]

Originally Posted by Vetterider23

It is sad that our SUV and Truck sales have slammed to a halt. They truly are the best vehicles we have ever built. With that said. I feel it important to say that I am getting so tired of people saying, "OH how foolish of GM to redesign their trucks right before this big gas crunch!!!!" Did GM put a few too many eggs into one basket? Yes. Should they have continued the GMT-800 platform for another 5 years? Absolutely NOT. GM had to redesign their GMT platform. The previous product cycle was coming to an end. Its lucky for GM that they did accelerate the program. They were able to make some profit in the year or so before this nightmare happened.

What bothers me about the GMT-900 platform is that GM acted as if big, heavy trucks would always be in high demand. It was obvious many years ago that fuel prices would climb, but GM built the huge, heavy GMT-900s with little strategic anticipation of a market shift.

I used to refresh the family pickup truck every 3 years. It gets occasional use as a boat hauler and firewood mover. When the lease was up on our '04 Silverado, I decided to skip the GMT-900s. Styling was a big factor ... both are unattractive to me, but I really wanted something lighter. I don't need to tow 6,000 pounds, but a 4500 pound capacity is fine. I'd like a lighter truck, but something more substantial than a Colorado.

I've driven both the new Sierra and Silverado, and honestly I don't see what the fuss is about. My '04 Silverado seemed on par with them.

To me, the GMT-900s represent a total disregard for strategic planning.

[2002 Caddy]

Originally Posted by Hunid Racks

You people want to know the truth?

People still don't want hybrids. Everybody that enjoys driving will tell you, the Prius is a lousy experience. It's dynamics suck.

But people don't want to buy gas. Toyota has been sucked in every direction by every self proclaimed "expert" that the Prius is the Mustang of this generation. It isn't. It is more the Pet Rock of this era.

And in that post is the FUNDAMENTAL truth to GM's Marketing problem...

GM tries to build cars and trucks that people WANT
Toyota tries to build cars and trucks that people NEED.

When times are tough "Need" beats "Want" every time. Actually in the long haul "need" beats "want" too.

[john1701a]

Originally Posted by 2002 Caddy

GM tries to build cars and trucks that people WANT
Toyota tries to build cars and trucks that people NEED.

Well said.

The vindication of planning ahead is paying off now too. Some are blinded by the vengence against Prius success. Acknowledging the use of that same technology elsewhere is still an act of denial.

I was attacked last year when pointing out how important it was for GM to offer direct competition with Camry-Hybrid.

Now what?

[Major_Tom]

Originally Posted by ByTheLake

What bothers me about the GMT-900 platform is that GM acted as if big, heavy trucks would always be in high demand. It was obvious many years ago that fuel prices would climb, but GM built the huge, heavy GMT-900s with little strategic anticipation of a market shift.

It's called lack of vision. Maybe the rising trend of fuel prices was obvious to everyone else, but certainly not to the upper management of GM.

[fan]

GM was first to indroduce an electric car but because didn't have money they killed it.
Toyota was first to the hybrid market with Prius and because they had plenty of money they selled it at a loss for years.
GM meanwhile had other priorities like quality, interior and interior designs. When Wagoner took over GM trailed the japaneese on all these fields. Now they are on par or better. I don't think it was a mistake investing in overall quality instead of selling at a loss a hybrid.
Toyota promoted the hybrid, but GM is right on time actually. They are bringing the BAS, tw-modes and Volt just when market demands it. Also, GM is amond the 2 automakers (Honda) that developed and alternative to Toyota's HSD. Ford lincensed part of technology, Nissan (the Carlos Ghosn) didn't bothered. The same goes for Chrysler and all the european automakers.
So, GM's management is not that bad .

[2002 Caddy]

Originally Posted by fan

So, GM's management is not that bad .

Unfortunately just about every other measure of management success...
Share price, market share, market cap, profit, growth, margin, flexability, leadership... you name it... says otherwise.

I missed in your post... how many shares do you own? How much has Rick's "not that bad" management cost you... It has cost me just over $50,000...

I would recommend that you walk a mile in my shoes before you cast judgment on Rick's performance.

[john1701a]

Originally Posted by fan

Toyota promoted the hybrid, but GM is right on time actually. They are bringing the BAS, tw-modes and Volt just when market demands it.

0.2% of GM's annual production is now hybrids. That most certainly is not enough to qualify as "on time" from any perspective. $4 gas is here already. Sales of guzzlers are plummeting.

How exactly will that demand, which is rapidly growing, going to be fulfilled?

[fan]

Caddy 2002 I won't say anything to you. You can't tell a mother that the war worth fighting.

Originally Posted by john1701a

How exactly will that demand, which is rapidly growing, going to be fulfilled?

The demand is going to be fulfilled by increasing production. The technology is there.