Wagoner Says Customers Didn't Want Hybrids

[leelander]

what was the EV1 worth when it was available?

[goatgary]

Originally Posted by johnnyl321

if these folks knew what people wanted, they wouldn't have the problems they face now. I like GM cars and trucks, but their management and what they call leadership is laughable at best.

So they shouldn't have built a crap load of Pickups and SUVS when they were flying off the lots
and Toyota is silly for getting caught with the Tundra....and just a year ago the only people buying Priuses were founding members of the Sierra Club and Hollywood Greenie celebrities.
Couldn't give a Yaris away.

AND the "fabulous" Hybrids have a $2000 - $5,000 premium on the sticker. Would pay for a lot of gas..even at $5.00 gal.

Please!

[ronald mcretard]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

Heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh....

Customers didn't want hybrids when gas was cheap.
But somehow every single other automaker figured out that it might be a viable solution, despite the extra cost.

what? Toyota and Honda, that's it. OK, Ford and Nissan too (with one car each) but they are both buying Toyota's system.

[377Z]

Originally Posted by Rick Wagoner

"We have to build cars and trucks that people want to buy," Wagoner said in his address to the Dallas Regional Chamber on Thursday.

Great. When do you plan to start?

[Canuck]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

What GM has continually failed to understand is the nature of the market isn't always just about cost. it's about owning a car. It's about creating a car that buyers are passionate about. And frankly, the only car that GM owns that does that is the Corvette.

Come on don't just rant and be silly. The Corvette is not the only car buyers are passionate about. Just look around this site and see the passion people have for GM products. I think you sometimes have passion for GM products. Lutz was hired by Rick to put more passion in mainstream cars such as getting people to care about the Malibu,

It is about cost profit and perception. Wagoner is correct in stating when gas was cheap almost all consumers did not care about hybrids. GM chose to make profits on trucks and SUVs which Americans wanted. GM was ahead of the curve, but low gas prices took their focus away from electric cars, hybrids, etc. It is a shame GM made this bad choice. Another way to look at this statement is Toyota thought consumers wanted bigger, thirstier trucks and SUVs. Spending over one billion on a declining market was poor planning on Toyota's part. Obviously Toyota thought Customers wanted big trucks and SUVs and they just got lucky with the Prius.

You also take Lutz's comment about customers out of context. Focus groups do not create great cars if this approach worked Zallera and company would have been a success at GM.

[RamJet502]

Hindsight's a bitch, fix it now or find another job.

[63GrandSport001]

Originally Posted by RamJet502

Hindsight's a bitch, fix it now or find another job.

This goes beyond fix it now or find a better job, he has shown time and time again that he lacks foresight which in the last few years has been very important.

So in a year when/if the market makes another very big shift will Rick be able to see it and react to it even when other companies are (like with hybrids)? I think not.

[RamJet502]

Originally Posted by 63GrandSport001

This goes beyond fix it now or find a better job, he has shown time and time again that he lacks foresight which in the last few years has been very important.

So in a year when/if the market makes another very big shift will Rick be able to see it and react to it even when other companies are (like with hybrids)? I think not.

Don't get me wrong, I think heads should have rolled a long time ago.

[Shoot]

I bought a 1998 Chevy Metro new when gasoline was at its cheapest: 89 cents a gallon.

You did, I did but we don't add up to much.

Customers didn't want hybrids when gas was cheap. But somehow every single other automaker figured out that it might be a viable solution, despite the extra cost.

They did? That's a bit of an overstatement don't you think. Toyota and Honda are not every single automaker (being those who went Hybrid in the "early" days). Honda quit selling the Insight and Accord Hybrids because they weren't selling.

The fact is people have not been buying hybrids. People won't buy hybrids until the cost factors make sense and that is now finally being approached. GM's mild hybrids allowed for a small mileage savings and a small increase in vehicle cost. People have not been willing to pay the premium for a Hybrid vehicle.

Get real, people.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by Canuck

Come on don't just rant and be silly. The Corvette is not the only car buyers are passionate about. Just look around this site and see the passion people have for GM products. I think you sometimes have passion for GM products. Lutz was hired by Rick to put more passion in mainstream cars such as getting people to care about the Malibu,

Oh really? Cavaliers? G6's? Impalas? Lucernes? Oh yeah... very very passionate cars there!

Lutz was hired to revamp GM's products. We're at year 6 now. Convincing product still is outnumbered by incompetent products.

Originally Posted by ericmvest

It is about cost profit and perception. Wagoner is correct in stating when gas was cheap almost all consumers did not care about hybrids. GM chose to make profits on trucks and SUVs which Americans wanted.

Which is turning out to be a death sentence for GM.
We knew it back then too.
Heck, we knew it back in the 1990's too, when GM went full bore on the SUV kick, letting its entire car lineup stagnate. Not just 1 or 2 lines either -- the whole lineup!!

Part of the problem is that GM expected their cash cow to produce milk forever. Now that the cash cow is a downer cow... what next? There's nothing in the line up to backfill.

You're right... "cost, profit, and perception." And GM botched it. Profited... but didn't pay attention to the rest of its lineup. That's poor management.

Originally Posted by ericmvest

You also take Lutz's comment about customers out of context. Focus groups do not create great cars if this approach worked Zallera and company would have been a success at GM.

What out of context? It was an entire friggin chapter!!
Focus groups do not create great cars ... then why is GM so adamant about using them?? Practically the entire Cadillac lineup went through it. And Escalade's focus group was highly publicized too!!!

Zarella had the right idea on how to manage GM. He just didn't have the product knowledge and product teams to pull it off. What GM needs now is brand management.
And I know I'm in the minority in believing Zarella had the right idea. He did have the right idea, but it was oh so poorly implemented.

[dindak]

Hybrids suck (have you seen a Prius) and no one really wanted one until this year. A year ago all my friends were buying SUVs and big cars.

[63GrandSport001]

Originally Posted by dindak

Hybrids suck (have you seen a Prius) and no one really wanted one until this year. A year ago all my friends were buying SUVs and big cars.

didn't your mother tell you about putting all of your eggs in one basket?

This is why you invest in all markets even if in a small way so that if market shifts you wont be caught as off guard as GM has.

So now everyone is trying to get something with good gas mileage (which is only half the problem).

[2002 Caddy]

Originally Posted by goatgary

So they shouldn't have built a crap load of Pickups and SUVS when they were flying off the lots
and Toyota is silly for getting caught with the Tundra....and just a year ago the only people buying Priuses were founding members of the Sierra Club and Hollywood Greenie celebrities.
Couldn't give a Yaris away.

AND the "fabulous" Hybrids have a $2000 - $5,000 premium on the sticker. Would pay for a lot of gas..even at $5.00 gal.

Please!

Lets review
1) The Prius first went on sale in the US in 2001... and the car was greated to customer waiting lists of up to 6 months! Ya Rick's right on, no-one wanted these cars... except the people prepared to pay "sticker plus" prices and put their money down for half a year

2) It wasn't wrong to try an cash in on trucks... BUT NOT at the EXPENSE of your CAR offerings... Toyota tried to cash in on trucks too (and did) but they never turned their back on "Good" small cars like GM did. Crap GM never got the whole "Good" small car thing... I drove a brand new G5 last year in Hawaii and I can report that they still haven't.

[AMERICA 123]

Well, consider this little tidbit. published 5JUNE2008.

http://www.hybridcars.com/decision/r...ting-list.html

As recently as four weeks ago < approx. MAY 5 -10, 2008 >, Toyota of Berkeley had 60 Priuses on the lot and ready to sell.

“We were offering $2,500 off on fully loaded Prius packages and the rest were selling for right around invoice.”

Parks was even selling Priuses to customers from out of state < notice, not local demand > that were unable to find the vehicle—which is rated at 48 mpg in the city and 45 on the highway.

Then, two things happened at almost the same time.

First, <local> gas prices soared well above $4 a gallon.

Next, according to an inside company source, Toyota dramatically reduced production of the Prius sedan when it began retooling its production line for the 2009 model year. < BS >

See, this whole discussion is distorted by the myth and lack of (accurate) information concerning exactly what success/ non success even the Prius taken alone really represents over its lifetime - including as recently as approx 7MAY2008 - with (national average) fuel prices well over 3.35$ ? per gallon.

Now go look at hybrids sales without the Prius - all of it - over all time to date. Lexus hybrids - by themselves ??

Mr Wagoner is just telling you the truth that many can't seem to admit to themselves and that is 'you', the buying public, created 'the problem' by not supporting hybrids before 4.00$ gasoline prices.

Your support is illustrated by the following. The best monthly sales penetration by all hybrids combined is approx 3% in April 2008 - which had no Toyota/ Honda supply problems of any kind - you could still even purchase the discontinued 2007 Honda Accord Hybrid.::lmao

And finally unless YOU think Toyota is stupid - which definitely says more about you than them, they used good reasoning in their decision to cut hybrid production .

whatever all is really behind that it - is part of the deal of the non exciting, non sensical world of battery hybrids.

Now, Man up, because you can in fact, 'get one' of your choice.

Yes, it will mean you get to pay in some cases the 'I'm stupid' tax of 3-5,000$ over list - which is entirely appropriate given how some of you bitch and whine and try to shift responsibility from yourself to Mr. Wagoner.

[Hurricane]

Originally Posted by 2002 Caddy

Customers didn't want cheap a$$ Crapalires, Corsica's, Citations and X Body and J Body junk that fell apart in the dealer's show room but that didn't stop Rick from making those too.

Bahahaha!