U.S. firm to demonstrate car battery 'switch' technology

[Tone]

If I'm not mistaken, The Better Place model would be to automate as much of this process as possible. So, there wouldn't be an attendent under your car with a hoist -- there would be a mechanism (like an automated car wash) that would swap out your battery quickly and easily -- 24 hrs a day.

The other element is that TBP appears to be looking to make deals with electrical utilities to allow them to tap into charging batteries for peak power. Essentially, TBP would make money two ways: by leasing batteries to consumers and by selling peak power (for short periods of peak demand -- say at high noon on the hottest day of the year). The batteries effectively become resevoirs for power that TBP will by at one price and -- when needed -- sell back to the utility at a higher (peak demand) price.

I'm guessing the sales to the utility help to offset the considerable cost of maintaining a large inventory of charging batteries.

Don't know if it will work, but it is an interesting concept. Particularly if the monthly battery charge was competitive. If you knew you could buy an electric car, go long distances and pay the same (or less) than you do right now for gas ... that would be a very competitive proposition.

[377Z]

Originally Posted by K-1

Concept and implementation are vastly different. The propane tank is portable, cheap, standard, and self-service. The battery is unwieldy, expensive, far from standard, and requires a tech.

Why does it require a tech? What kind of tech?

Far from standard? Why wouldn't you, as a company, make your batteries standard? A well thought out plan would include designs that considered such things as standardization, ease/speed of swapping batteries, etc. Its like saying production lines aren't viable without standardized parts. Of course not, but ever since Honore LeBlanc/Eli Whitney, we have had standardized parts. Just because you can't swap all parts from one manufacurer to another doesn't mean the concept is invalid.

Using the same logic, you could say gasoline is unwieldy, flammable, hazardous, combustable, requires a 'tech.' Except its not true.

Originally Posted by K-1

And when someone arrives at a dealership that ran out of charged batteries, what then? They wait 8 hours for one to charge up. Come on!

And what happens when someone arrives at a gas station that ran out of gasoline, what then? They wait 8 hours for the tanker to arrive. Come on!

Its the 21st century. The "where/how many" information which would determine # of batteries on hand is in the palm of the company's hand (they sell/service/replace batteries which would monitor usage, remember?). At first, there could be a a few extra on hand for an extra margin of safety, until a comfortable equilibrium is reached.

Originally Posted by K-1

We already have a solution to this problem: Voltec.

Because we all know gas will last forever, inexpensively, and oil money has never been used to hurt anything in the interests of the US.

Originally Posted by K-1

So, not only does the dealer have to stock cars and parts, they also have to stock dozens of 400lbs batteries and keep them all topped off and readily available just in case and keep the dealership open 24hrs just in case.

Again, think like a businessman. The dealership happens to be an easy place to implement the EV 'gas station.' There is no reason the entire dealership, service staff, sales staff, finance staff, etc need to be sitting around 24 hours a day so that someone can get out of bed at 3:42AM to change their battery, if they feel like it. The EV 'gas station could have some degree of seeparatation from the dealer, just like some dealerships sales & service keep different hours, in different places, on the same piece of land. The market study might even reveal that the station doesn't need to keep different hours at all.

The target market for such a vehicle would be pretty tight--urban/city suburban commuter/local trip vehicle used during the day. Overnight the vehicle would be plugged in at home. The early adopters would know how they use the car, understand its limitations & whether it suits them. Others who are less informed would be set straight by the dealer sales, who would be trained with regard to how to work in concert with the marketing. Its not for everybody--if your situation demands that you constantly drive around and may need an instant charge at any given hour of the day, the car might not be for you.

Originally Posted by K-1

EVs may work for city folk, who never venture past the county line (though, taxi service would suffice), but most everyone else will need an EREV, which renders this battery swap argument moot.

Since you didn't read it the first time, here it is again:

Originally Posted by 377Z

This would be the ideal urban/city suburban vehicle, where the trips are shorter and there are still plenty of dealerships.

Just because every single dealer may not be able to accomodate, or YOU or I wouldn't buy one, or Farmer Bill can't haul his pigs though the muddy field with it, or it might be an issue out in the desolate sprawling ranches of west Texas, doesn't somehow automatically mean it isn't a viable profit generating product anywhere in the country.

Its a weak argument with no legs. Everything doesn't have to be all things to everybody all the time to be a viable product. The current market isn't REMOTELY like that now, nor has it ever been. Its like saying the Mini can't possibly succeed because it doesn't have a third row, and it can't haul a horse trailer. Or that motorcycles shouldn't be sold because they can't hold more than two, and aren't good in snow.

Originally Posted by K-1

I don't think you guys are thinking this through.

Interesting accusation, considering most of your points.

[edsuski]

If 78% of people in the US drive 40 miles or less per day - then why would you regularly need to "swap" batteries? The range extender in the Volt is a much better solution. This way - there is absolutely no need to build out any new infrastructure. On the rare occasion that someone who normally drives 40 miles per day or less needs to pick someone up at an airport or drive to grandma's house - they simply burn a little gas. Gas station infrastructure exists today.

PHEV's are not for everyone at this point, but if you are one of the 78% who rarely drive over 40 miles per day - then it is a perfect solution. As sales increase and technology improves, the range will slowly creep up to 50 and then 60 and eventually even more. Using the range extender to burn a little gasoline or ethanol is not a problem. We simply need to stop importing oil from the countries who hate us - or our politics. There is way more than enough oil in North America (think Canadian oil sands) to meet the demand if 78% of the time (transposing time with people here) people bought zero gasoline.

Infrastructure DONE! Fossil Fuel Supply DONE! Is there really a need to swap batteries? What is the business case for the investment if only 22% of the population would reqularly need your service - the 22% who are least likely to buy a PHEV? Again - as range improves for "Volt like" batteries - that 22% number quickly drops to less than 10% of the population. I don't see the business case....

[johnstarnes]

Originally Posted by 377Z

I think it would be cool if GM was able to develop an a family of electric vehicles that all used a GM standardized battery. They could then have a special area in their dealer service departments that would be dedicated to rapid battery switches for a fee. This way, the batteries would be GM only, controlled & warrantied by GM. This would be ideal for metro areas where there are a lot of GM dealers, and the electric car is the most practical.

Essentially you'd go to the dealer to 'fill up' your electric car. They sell the cars, & the 'fuel,' & this would be another opportunity for dealers to treat customers well & build a relationship.

Great idea...I hope that GM lurks here.

[44 mpg by 2010]

Originally Posted by nota

Better Place aim to set up a functioning EV infrastructure in my city by 2012, and recently held a local demonstration of how their 'battery switching stations' would work.

On 'live to air' media they exchanged a complete EV battery pack, from standstill to drive-off, in just 90 seconds...

What was the demonstration vehicle?

From the consumer's point of view 90 seconds is less than it takes (about 5~6 gallons/minute) it takes to put 10 gallons in my Civic. However, that 10 gallons provides about 400 miles, about 10 hours of drive time and does not require finding a dealership for a "refill".

One thought occurred to me, how much charge (miles) must be expended to get to and for the exchange station.

Several other thoughts ... battery package dimensions, mounting, and interconnection method plus any "on battery status" data collection/retention methodoly should be standardized.

However, that does not limit battery technology evolution (improvements) within the physical package envelope. That happens regularly with lead acid and A/C/D dry cell batteries.

It sounds like the Volt is NOT a candidate for "battery exchange" because the "pack" is "buried" and not readily accessable/removable.

[edsuski]

With a little further thought - battery exchange does not eliminate range anxiety until the infrastructure supporting it is fully deployed. That said - one will still need a range extender type of solution for the times that one was not in range of a battery exchange facility. Range anxiety is a real problem for PHEV success.

Again - if 78% of the population drives less than the proposed range of the Volt (40 miles) per day - and can easily recharge at home while still being able to drive across country on occasion using a little gasoline or ethanol - what is the business case?

Question: What is the ideal range for a PHEV?

Answer: Enough to get you home to recharge during off peak times.

For 78% of us - that is only 40 miles. The idea that the range of the battery needs to match the "traditional" gas tank is flawed thinking. Especially when you combine the battery with a light weight and efficient range extender to eliminate range anxiety (think gas trubine).