Toyota loses patent appeal for technology in Prius

GMusa · 05-12-2008, 02:07 PM

www.autoblog.com

Toyota loses patent appeal for technology in Prius

Posted May 12th 2008 12:01PM by Damon Lavrinc
Filed under: Hybrids/Alternative, Government/Legal, Green, Toyota

Toyota lawyers arrived at the U.S. Supreme Court today and were denied an appeal to overturn a ruling originally upheld by a federal appeals court in Washington last year. The case involved a technology patent held by a company named Paice LLC, which contended that Toyota used the same microprocessor developed by the McLean, Virginia-based company on its hybrid vehicles that inputs torque information for both the gasoline-powered engine and the electric motor. The $4.3 million dollar award against Toyota will stand, and Toyota is required to pay royalties to the firm to the tune of $25 for every Prius, Highlander Hybrid and Lexus RX400h sold. Ouch. Sometimes the price of success is steep.

[Source: Detroit News]

**mgescuro** · 05-12-2008, 02:10 PM

Too bad...
Tsk tsk tsk...

I wonder if this is for every Toyota with HSD sold in America... or globally...?

DemonKnightDK · 05-12-2008, 02:20 PM

probably just in america, other countried dont hold up international copy right/trade mark like we do..

WishIhadatruck · 05-12-2008, 02:27 PM

Everyone sold globally would be fair. I couldn't say what it really means however.

I don't think this was the same company but wasn't there a company that sued Toyota for the entire basic concept? They made electric drives for sail boats if I remember correctly and had a transmission very similar to the one in a HSD but instead of wheels it had a prop in the water. Anyone remember where that one went? Everyone predicted that they would get nowhere going against a large company like Toyota. Glad to see at least one company was able to hold them accountable for patent infringement.

Buick61 · 05-12-2008, 02:33 PM

That's going to add up real fast. Is this a forever thing? Can Toyota get around it by designing an entirely new component not based on infringing technology?

zete · 05-12-2008, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buick61

That's going to add up real fast. Is this a forever thing? Can Toyota get around it by designing an entirely new component not based on infringing technology?

Patents are typically 19 years, so it'll be a while.

And with one successful defence of the patent other nations will enforce it now, too, once the company brings Toyota to court in their jurisdictions and assuming the patent is international and not US only.

ronald mcretard · 05-12-2008, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buick61

That's going to add up real fast. Is this a forever thing? Can Toyota get around it by designing an entirely new component not based on infringing technology?

yeah, but it looks like they would still have to pay the $4.3M for the previous infringement. they would only be saving the $25 per car on future cars, so it probably wouldn't be worth it, unless they were planning on a redesign anyway.

ronald mcretard · 05-12-2008, 03:21 PM

by the way, I'm in love with the fact that a huge Japanese company had to copy technology from a small American company to get the best solution. just proves that American ingenuity is still alive and kicking.

ogg vorbis · 05-12-2008, 03:43 PM

patents are 17 years. and you can patent not only pieces, but systems, concepts, and processes...so redisigning a single part won't circumvent a patent. like ronald said, development cost wouldn't be worth it. hybrids have always been a step gap measure...full electric cars will be out before the patent expires.

Ambalanche · 05-12-2008, 03:45 PM

Actually they are copying an old American way....Do the offence, then ask for forgiveness later....Much more profitable that way....

Butz · 05-12-2008, 03:46 PM

Good

gdsm3 · 05-12-2008, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogg vorbis

patents are 17 years. and you can patent not only pieces, but systems, concepts, and processes...so redisigning a single part won't circumvent a patent. like ronald said, development cost wouldn't be worth it. hybrids have always been a step gap measure...full electric cars will be out before the patent expires.

the legal patent term is 20 years now. it used to be 17 years, but has been changed since I believe 2000. And if Toyota is only infringing on their chip they can circumvent their troubles by just changing chips.

Butz · 05-12-2008, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogg vorbis

patents are 17 years. and you can patent not only pieces, but systems, concepts, and processes...so redisigning a single part won't circumvent a patent. like ronald said, development cost wouldn't be worth it. hybrids have always been a step gap measure...full electric cars will be out before the patent expires.

software patents especially are the worst of them all, but all patents are bad

Generous Motors · 05-12-2008, 04:06 PM

Actually this is an old Japanese trick, copy somebody else and hope you don't get sued. The Japanese copied most all of the electronics designed in this country, we were just to stupid to actually build it......VCR's and CDs were invented here in the US but made in Japan.

FenwickHockey65 · 05-12-2008, 04:40 PM

So much for innovation...

05-12-2008, 02:07 PM	#1 (permalink)
GMusa 6.0 Liter Vortec V8 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: U.S.A!!! Drives: 1998 Ford Taurus SE Posts: 1,731	Toyota loses patent appeal for technology in Prius www.autoblog.com Toyota loses patent appeal for technology in Prius Posted May 12th 2008 12:01PM by Damon Lavrinc Filed under: Hybrids/Alternative, Government/Legal, Green, Toyota Toyota lawyers arrived at the U.S. Supreme Court today and were denied an appeal to overturn a ruling originally upheld by a federal appeals court in Washington last year. The case involved a technology patent held by a company named Paice LLC, which contended that Toyota used the same microprocessor developed by the McLean, Virginia-based company on its hybrid vehicles that inputs torque information for both the gasoline-powered engine and the electric motor. The $4.3 million dollar award against Toyota will stand, and Toyota is required to pay royalties to the firm to the tune of $25 for every Prius, Highlander Hybrid and Lexus RX400h sold. Ouch. Sometimes the price of success is steep. [Source: Detroit News] __________________ -JD

05-12-2008, 02:10 PM	#2 (permalink)
mgescuro GMI Staff Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 23,630	Re: Toyota loses patent appeal for technology in Prius Too bad... Tsk tsk tsk... I wonder if this is for every Toyota with HSD sold in America... or globally...? __________________ 2000 Saab 9-5 Aero 1995 Mercedes C280 1994 Jaguar XJ6 ...when all hope is gone, you know sad songs say so much... My Vision of Cadillac My Vision of Cadillac (REDUX)

05-12-2008, 02:27 PM	#4 (permalink)
WishIhadatruck 5.3 Liter Vortec V8 Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Drives: '01 Grand Prix GT '96 Roadmaster Wagon Posts: 1,326	Re: Toyota loses patent appeal for technology in Prius Everyone sold globally would be fair. I couldn't say what it really means however. I don't think this was the same company but wasn't there a company that sued Toyota for the entire basic concept? They made electric drives for sail boats if I remember correctly and had a transmission very similar to the one in a HSD but instead of wheels it had a prop in the water. Anyone remember where that one went? Everyone predicted that they would get nowhere going against a large company like Toyota. Glad to see at least one company was able to hold them accountable for patent infringement. __________________ 1996 Buick Roadmaster Wagon 2001 Pontiac Grand Prix

05-12-2008, 02:33 PM	#5 (permalink)
Buick61 7.0 Liter LS7 V8 Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: DC Metro Area Drives: 58 Belvedere; 61 LeSabre; 96 Fleetwood; 07 SRX Posts: 8,317	Re: Toyota loses patent appeal for technology in Prius That's going to add up real fast. Is this a forever thing? Can Toyota get around it by designing an entirely new component not based on infringing technology? __________________ Used to own: 1959 Cadillac Series 62, 1960 AMC Rambler Six, 1998 Chevrolet Malibu, 2000 Saturn LS2, 2005 Chrysler 300C, 2006 Pontiac G6 GTP

05-12-2008, 03:21 PM	#8 (permalink)
ronald mcretard 6.0 Liter Vortec V8 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,827	Re: Toyota loses patent appeal for technology in Prius by the way, I'm in love with the fact that a huge Japanese company had to copy technology from a small American company to get the best solution. just proves that American ingenuity is still alive and kicking.

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05-12-2008, 03:43 PM	#9 (permalink)
ogg vorbis 3.8 Liter V6 Join Date: May 2005 Location: Toronto, ON Drives: 1999 Buick Regal GS caught fire Posts: 386	Re: Toyota loses patent appeal for technology in Prius patents are 17 years. and you can patent not only pieces, but systems, concepts, and processes...so redisigning a single part won't circumvent a patent. like ronald said, development cost wouldn't be worth it. hybrids have always been a step gap measure...full electric cars will be out before the patent expires.

05-12-2008, 03:45 PM	#10 (permalink)
Ambalanche 5.3 Liter Vortec V8 Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Pensacola, Florida Drives: '07 Corvette Z51 Posts: 1,430	Re: Toyota loses patent appeal for technology in Prius Actually they are copying an old American way....Do the offence, then ask for forgiveness later....Much more profitable that way.... __________________ GM better hope the Volt is a runaway success, because *all* the eggs are in that basket!

05-12-2008, 04:06 PM	#14 (permalink)
Generous Motors 2.0 Liter Supercharged ECOTEC Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: The Peoples Republic of California Drives: 1968 Malibu 1971 Monte Carlo 1974 C10 Posts: 150	Re: Toyota loses patent appeal for technology in Prius Actually this is an old Japanese trick, copy somebody else and hope you don't get sued. The Japanese copied most all of the electronics designed in this country, we were just to stupid to actually build it......VCR's and CDs were invented here in the US but made in Japan. __________________ If I must walk in another mans shoes to judge him, won't my feet just smell like his ??? Why do the Drive-up ATM's have braillie instructions?

05-12-2008, 04:40 PM	#15 (permalink)
FenwickHockey65 7.0 Liter LS7 V8 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: West Chester, OH Drives: Chevrolet Malibu LS, GMC Envoy SLE, GMC Sonoma SLS Posts: 5,162	Re: Toyota loses patent appeal for technology in Prius So much for innovation... __________________ Proud to drive American. Proud to drive GM. Current Cars: 2007 Chevrolet Malibu LS: 2.2L ECOTEC I-4 2003 GMC Envoy SLE: 4.2L Vortec 4200 I-6 1998 GMC Sonoma SLS Ext. Cab: 4.3L Vortec 4300 V6 Former Cars: 1993 Saturn SW2 (1993-2006, 243,000 miles) 1989 GMC Safari SLT (1989-2003, 293,000 miles) Future Car: 2010 Chevrolet Camaro 2LT RS: 3.6L DI VVT V6

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