Toyota develops new fuel cell hybrid

[mbukukanyau]

I like the way the writer fails to mention GM Fuel Cell Equinox'es running around california and Fords efforts.
There is a trend to always look America look backward and bad in journalism. The failure to research the article properly is disturbing.

[JeffInDFW]

Originally Posted by mbukukanyau

I like the way the write fails to mention GM Fuel Cell Equinox'es running around california and Fords efforts

Exactly what I was thinking! I'm waiting for the press release saying "Toyota develops first rocket to take men to the moon!". It does not matter that other companies are doing great things, when Toyota does it, then it is the best thing EVER! And only Toyota is doing it!

"Toyota developing car that will feed homeless children, and help the elderly to cross the street!"!!!

[mbukukanyau]

GM Takes Lead with 100 Hydrogen Equinoxes

HomeAlt-FuelCalendarCitiesEV & PHEVFleetsGoodsMovementHydrogenPapersPresentationsRenewablesResearchServicesVehiclesAboutContact(updated 4/16/08 by John Addison) Tim Powers, GM Western Regional Manager, revealed more details of the GM Project Driveway at the California Hydrogen Business Council meeting. GM will select at least 100 initial drivers of the Chevrolet Equinox Fuel Cell from people applying to participate at chevy.com. GM Application
My past drives of the Equinox Fuel Cell demonstrated that it offered a smooth drive comparable to the gasoline Equinox, a roomy four-door crossover vehicle. Due to the added need for hydrogen fuel storage, it is a four-seater instead of five in the gasoline Equinox. Conventional gasoline vehicles emit about 20 pounds of greenhouse gases with every gallon burned. The Equinox Fuel Cell only emits water vapor.
Most drivers that GM will select will live in California within ten miles of 700 bar hydrogen stations located from San Diego to Burbank, California. They are likely to include everyone from Marines to Mouseketeers. GM will also select drivers in other parts of the U.S. including Metro New York and Washington D.C. and other countries including Germany, China, Korea, and Japan. Five different types of drivers will be selected by GM:
• Media
• Public policy makers
• Celebrities and influentials
• Mainstream drivers
• Fleets
Most individuals will try the vehicle for three months. It is a free trail with GM covering the vehicle, insurance, maintenance, and fuel. Fleets will put the vehicles through more extensive 30 month tests. For example, Disney will be using ten for employee use in Southern California for 30 months. Fleets could also include universities, city government, military, taxis, and delivery. Over three years, 300 to 500 people are likely to try the vehicles for three months each.
One of the first drivers will be David Shelton a computer systems operator from Irvine. This will be his fourth electric vehicle. He tried General Motors' EV1 in the late '90s, experimented with a Ford Think City electric car and, since 2002, has owned a Toyota RAV4 EV. The Equinox Fuel Cell is an electric vehicle with an electric drive motor, no engine, nickel metal hydride batteries, and a hydrogen fuel cell which generates electricity.
GM is making a priority of customer support. At the heart of the support is OnStar. OnStar is GM’s in-vehicle safety and security system. OnStar's innovative three-button system offers: 24-hour access to one of 6, and later 12, Equinox Fuel Cell Advisors; a connection to emergency assistance; and access to OnStar Hands-Free Calling. Each driver will have one person to deal with at GM, a driver relationship manager. All drivers will receive training. OnStar and the Advisor will recommend maintenance. Detailed data acquisition and analysis will help GM develop a knowledge base that will influence the roll-out of the next generation fuel cell vehicle.
Customer support will include three dedicated service hubs for vehicle prep, training, deliver, maintenance and vehicle return. The hubs are at Burbank, CA; Ardsley, NY; and at U.S. Army Ft. Belvoir, VA.
Three dealers will also be active in customer training and support. This will help GM prepare for large-scale sales and support of vehicles with electric drive systems. The initial dealers will be in California, New York, and Maryland.
Range is a challenge for all makers of electric vehicles. The Equinox Fuel Cell will typically deliver a range of 160 miles between hydrogen fueling, but only by using higher pressure 700 bar. This range estimate from GM is more conservative than earlier 200 mile announcements. In California, only the Irvine station currently offers the higher 700 bar pressure as well as 350 bar. All other stations offer only 350 bar. The Equinox Fuel Cell only has a range of about 80 miles when fueled at 350 bar. Another challenge is that a number of hydrogen stations are dedicated to one fleet and are not available to the public.
Over the next few years, range will greatly improve from drivers of fuel cell vehicles. Today, fuel cell buses with ten times the weight of the Equinox have ranges greater than 300 miles. With more hydrogen storage, more range is achieved. Toyota has demonstrated a range of 350 miles by using extra 700 bar storage. GM has demonstrated a range of 300 miles by using 8 kg of storage. Honda will achieve a 270 mile range with the new FCX Clarity using the lower pressure 350 bar. The Honda is a lighter four-passenger vehicle designed from the ground-up to be an electric fuel cell vehicle.
The Equinox Fuel Cell uses 35 kW of NiMH batteries in a mild-hybrid configuration. In other vehicles, such as the Volt, GM is testing new lithium batteries. In its next generation fuel cell vehicle, GM could achieve a range exceeding 300 miles by reducing vehicle weight, having a more battery-dominate full-hybrid design such as E-Flex, using its fifth generation fuel cell, and by switching to lithium batteries.
To accelerate the presence of higher pressure stations with public access, GM is spending millions to establish nine temporary 700 bar stations from Burbank to San Diego. At least three of the portable fueling stations will be provided by Quantum (QTWW). Hydrogen will be made by large-scale reformation of natural gas that is truck delivered.
A number of existing California hydrogen stations use zero-emission hydrogen production by using electrolysis powered by renewable energy, such as solar. Others, such as AC Transit and USMC Camp Pendleton, make hydrogen with on-site electrolysis of pipelined natural gas. AC Transit’s approach produces about 40% of the greenhouse gas emissions of diesel alternatives by using solar power in the reformation and compression of hydrogen. Next year, pipelined byproduct hydrogen will be available at a Torrance station for less than the cost of gasoline. GM and other stations in development will increase California’s hydrogen infrastructure from 25 to 40 stations. In California, the number of hydrogen vehicles from all makers on the road is likely to double from over 150 today to over 300 in 2008, with GM leading the way.

http://www.cleanfleetreport.com/vault/gm_equinox.htm

[rozz]

Originally Posted by mbukukanyau

GM Takes Lead with 100 Hydrogen Equinoxes

HomeAlt-FuelCalendarCitiesEV & PHEVFleetsGoodsMovementHydrogenPapersPresentationsRenewablesResearchServicesVehiclesAboutContact(updated 4/16/08 by John Addison) Tim Powers, GM Western Regional Manager, revealed more details of the GM Project Driveway at the California Hydrogen Business Council meeting. GM will select at least 100 initial drivers of the Chevrolet Equinox Fuel Cell from people applying to participate at chevy.com. GM Application
My past drives of the Equinox Fuel Cell demonstrated that it offered a smooth drive comparable to the gasoline Equinox, a roomy four-door crossover vehicle. Due to the added need for hydrogen fuel storage, it is a four-seater instead of five in the gasoline Equinox. Conventional gasoline vehicles emit about 20 pounds of greenhouse gases with every gallon burned. The Equinox Fuel Cell only emits water vapor.
Most drivers that GM will select will live in California within ten miles of 700 bar hydrogen stations located from San Diego to Burbank, California. They are likely to include everyone from Marines to Mouseketeers. GM will also select drivers in other parts of the U.S. including Metro New York and Washington D.C. and other countries including Germany, China, Korea, and Japan. Five different types of drivers will be selected by GM:
• Media
• Public policy makers
• Celebrities and influentials
• Mainstream drivers
• Fleets
Most individuals will try the vehicle for three months. It is a free trail with GM covering the vehicle, insurance, maintenance, and fuel. Fleets will put the vehicles through more extensive 30 month tests. For example, Disney will be using ten for employee use in Southern California for 30 months. Fleets could also include universities, city government, military, taxis, and delivery. Over three years, 300 to 500 people are likely to try the vehicles for three months each.
One of the first drivers will be David Shelton a computer systems operator from Irvine. This will be his fourth electric vehicle. He tried General Motors' EV1 in the late '90s, experimented with a Ford Think City electric car and, since 2002, has owned a Toyota RAV4 EV. The Equinox Fuel Cell is an electric vehicle with an electric drive motor, no engine, nickel metal hydride batteries, and a hydrogen fuel cell which generates electricity.
GM is making a priority of customer support. At the heart of the support is OnStar. OnStar is GM’s in-vehicle safety and security system. OnStar's innovative three-button system offers: 24-hour access to one of 6, and later 12, Equinox Fuel Cell Advisors; a connection to emergency assistance; and access to OnStar Hands-Free Calling. Each driver will have one person to deal with at GM, a driver relationship manager. All drivers will receive training. OnStar and the Advisor will recommend maintenance. Detailed data acquisition and analysis will help GM develop a knowledge base that will influence the roll-out of the next generation fuel cell vehicle.
Customer support will include three dedicated service hubs for vehicle prep, training, deliver, maintenance and vehicle return. The hubs are at Burbank, CA; Ardsley, NY; and at U.S. Army Ft. Belvoir, VA.
Three dealers will also be active in customer training and support. This will help GM prepare for large-scale sales and support of vehicles with electric drive systems. The initial dealers will be in California, New York, and Maryland.
Range is a challenge for all makers of electric vehicles. The Equinox Fuel Cell will typically deliver a range of 160 miles between hydrogen fueling, but only by using higher pressure 700 bar. This range estimate from GM is more conservative than earlier 200 mile announcements. In California, only the Irvine station currently offers the higher 700 bar pressure as well as 350 bar. All other stations offer only 350 bar. The Equinox Fuel Cell only has a range of about 80 miles when fueled at 350 bar. Another challenge is that a number of hydrogen stations are dedicated to one fleet and are not available to the public.
Over the next few years, range will greatly improve from drivers of fuel cell vehicles. Today, fuel cell buses with ten times the weight of the Equinox have ranges greater than 300 miles. With more hydrogen storage, more range is achieved. Toyota has demonstrated a range of 350 miles by using extra 700 bar storage. GM has demonstrated a range of 300 miles by using 8 kg of storage. Honda will achieve a 270 mile range with the new FCX Clarity using the lower pressure 350 bar. The Honda is a lighter four-passenger vehicle designed from the ground-up to be an electric fuel cell vehicle.
The Equinox Fuel Cell uses 35 kW of NiMH batteries in a mild-hybrid configuration. In other vehicles, such as the Volt, GM is testing new lithium batteries. In its next generation fuel cell vehicle, GM could achieve a range exceeding 300 miles by reducing vehicle weight, having a more battery-dominate full-hybrid design such as E-Flex, using its fifth generation fuel cell, and by switching to lithium batteries.
To accelerate the presence of higher pressure stations with public access, GM is spending millions to establish nine temporary 700 bar stations from Burbank to San Diego. At least three of the portable fueling stations will be provided by Quantum (QTWW). Hydrogen will be made by large-scale reformation of natural gas that is truck delivered.
A number of existing California hydrogen stations use zero-emission hydrogen production by using electrolysis powered by renewable energy, such as solar. Others, such as AC Transit and USMC Camp Pendleton, make hydrogen with on-site electrolysis of pipelined natural gas. AC Transit’s approach produces about 40% of the greenhouse gas emissions of diesel alternatives by using solar power in the reformation and compression of hydrogen. Next year, pipelined byproduct hydrogen will be available at a Torrance station for less than the cost of gasoline. GM and other stations in development will increase California’s hydrogen infrastructure from 25 to 40 stations. In California, the number of hydrogen vehicles from all makers on the road is likely to double from over 150 today to over 300 in 2008, with GM leading the way.

http://www.cleanfleetreport.com/vault/gm_equinox.htm

This Nox is not a Fuel Cell "Hybrid".

[PhishPhood]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

Little late to the party, toyota?

It's a good thing that the engineers at other competing vehicle makers have the same blind perspective.

If it works, always a big IF, goes beyond gas. But the problem with FC-powered vehicles is how to fill them and where. The infrastructure still is not there no matter how elegant the solution might be.

[PhishPhood]

Originally Posted by minnfang

Screw what? You just made my point. GM (or any other car maker) is not in a position to dictate that a hydrogen refueling infrastructure be deployed in this country. It would be suicide to develop and produce any real quantities of fuel cell vehicles without one.

Screw hydrogen. My ultimate answer is fully electric cars recharged with electricity from nuclear, solar, and wind. It will happen as soon as battery technology is up to the task.

Agreed.

We are now, today, on the threshhold of a complete revolution in the way vehicles are powered and fueled. It will take several decades IMO but hybrids and diesels are the first step in advanced technology; PHEVs and EREVs are the next step, biofuel powered vehicles are soon to follow and EVs and FC vehicles are on the not-too-distant horizon. That horizon might be the decade of the 20s when petro-fuel starts to get really really tight.

In the meanwhile we will be sorting through what works and what doesn't and the cost effectiveness of each solution. Interesting times these are.

[rsbaker]

Originally Posted by minnfang

If they are actually leasing completed fuel cell cars in the near future, they will be leapfrogging GM. I wouldn't get my grundies in a bunch over it though. Without a fully deployed hydrogen infrastructure, this is nothing more than an experiment. Given our current refueling situation, what really matters are gasoline or diesel hybrids and fully electric cars. In that area, GM needs to move to the head of the class FAST.

I think GM will be ready and waiting with fuel cell cars when and if the infrastructure ever exists. Future advances in battery technology that allow for practical, electric only cars may make the whole fuel cell discussion moot.

We Must not forget that GM already has a Fuel Cell vehicle up and running, though still not for Sale or Lease, it works very well according the the many people who have driven them in the real world Test Vehicles, the hundred or so Fuel Cell Equinoxes. We must also remember that the E-flex in the Volt was designed to eventually take a fuel cell instead of a Gasoline/Diesel engine.

Once the infrastructure is in place GM is ready to go with what ever the market wants.