Time to electrify the economy

[Saturn69]

Originally Posted by 377Z

Trouble is, the kids on this site seem to think simple stuff like everybody will always charge their cars only at night, & don't consider the eventual need for more powerplants & grid if electric car sales take off, along with the various hiccups and extreme expense of creating new powerplants thanks to draconian regulation, and .

Hence my comment that hopefully the grid will be upgraded. There is a difference between acknowledgement of the challenges of a course of action and simply throwing stones.

Not all the kids think that way. Some of us know that the grid is in desperate need of an upgrade, some of us are in favor of nuclear energy. Sorry if we aren't Panic Monkeys who automatically shoot down the remotest possibility of electric cars being popular for more than just eco-weenies or the ultra-rich.

[377Z]

Originally Posted by PhishPhood

Car sales can't take off, grown steadily perhaps but not boom. We are a mature market now with about 1 vehicle for every driving-age adult. How many vehicles can one drive at a time. Now our population will grow naturally and in 20+ yrs we will have 25% more of us then now so there should be 25% more drivers as well but the cost of driving may force a lot of potential drivers out of the market.

Examples for comparison:
In China there's one vehicle for every 7 driving-age adults. China's population is 5 times greater than ours. ( How many people in your house? Now multiply that by 5. Next door? ).
In India there's one vehicle for every 17 driving-age adults. It's population is 4 times greater than ours.
Those are the markets that will really be growing.

A electric car sales could absolutely boom in a mature market like the US, it would simply be at the expense of ICE cars. This is what I had in mind, not a boom of electrics in addition to maintaining ICE car sales.

[TruckMan]

Originally Posted by Saturn69

Oh God, here we go with the more-pollution-due-to-electric-cars crap. The other 'bad penny' of the electric car discussion posts has finally turned up.

The coal is being burned and polluting every night, whether we use it or not, meanwhile the electricity that is being generated is not being used. That is a waste of fuel. Plugging in 1 million electric cars - which is like, 1/270th of the number of cars in the U.S. - will put some of that wasted coal/oil/natural gas that we're using anyway.

This isn't a true statement at all. They do bring certain electric plants down at night and up in the mornings when demand is lower and higher. You cannot supply more or less power to the grid (within a certain %) than is being used or you will overload it. There is no wasted or unused electricity.

[logansowner]

Originally Posted by 377Z

Trouble is, the kids on this site seem to think simple stuff like everybody will always charge their cars only at night, & don't consider the eventual need for more powerplants & grid if electric car sales take off, along with the various hiccups and extreme expense of creating new powerplants thanks to draconian regulation, and .

Hence my comment that hopefully the grid will be upgraded. There is a difference between acknowledgement of the challenges of a course of action and simply throwing stones.

That's why I said that $700 billion a year could fix a lot of problems with the grid.

The trouble with the older generation is the feeling that change is bad. That's why my Grandfather drives his restored 58 Chevy more than the 2008 Impala he bought. He thinks all the features are needless. He knows how to use it, but prefers the 58 because there are no electronics controlling anything, and if it breaks it's easy to fix. He has a point, but at the same time he thinks going from gas is pointless. Of course he thinks it's fine to pour used oil in a hole in the ground too.

Older people tend to know a lot about what they do know, but if it were left up to them, as long as it was good enough, we'd never have innovation either.

[377Z]

Originally Posted by Saturn69

Not all the kids think that way. Some of us know that the grid is in desperate need of an upgrade, some of us are in favor of nuclear energy. Sorry if we aren't Panic Monkeys who automatically shoot down the remotest possibility of electric cars being popular for more than just eco-weenies or the ultra-rich.

You attempt to label anyone who acknowledges challenges such as the state of the power grid as 'panic monkeys,' then yourself acknowledge above that the grid is in desperate need of an upgrade. Doesn't that make you a panic monkey? Are your labels consructive?

Again, there is a difference between acknowledgement of the challenges of a course of action and simply throwing stones.

Funny you mention nuclear, as that is the least likely type of powerplant to proliferate, despite the fact that some of the existing ones are obscenely profitable. But, you seem to have all the answers, so good luck with that.

[377Z]

Originally Posted by logansowner

That's why I said that $700 billion a year could fix a lot of problems with the grid.

The trouble with the older generation is the feeling that change is bad. That's why my Grandfather drives his restored 58 Chevy more than the 2008 Impala he bought. He thinks all the features are needless. He knows how to use it, but prefers the 58 because there are no electronics controlling anything, and if it breaks it's easy to fix. He has a point, but at the same time he thinks going from gas is pointless. Of course he thinks it's fine to pour used oil in a hole in the ground too.

Older people tend to know a lot about what they do know, but if it were left up to them, as long as it was good enough, we'd never have innovation either.

The point I was making, that nobody has yet picked up on, is that there is a difference between acknowledgement of the challenges of a course of action and simply throwing stones.

It seems that many threads here are polluted with people that see no grey areas. Its either black or white, so much so that any rational attempt at discussion of relevant challenges always gets derailed by someone who attempts to pigeon hole folks he or she perceives as disagreeing, reality be damned.

Seems like its a sign of the times though. Red or blue, take your pick. No inbetween.

[Saturn69]

Originally Posted by 377Z

You attempt to label anyone who acknowledges challenges such as the state of the power grid as 'panic monkeys,' then yourself acknowledge above that the grid is in desperate need of an upgrade. Doesn't that make you a panic monkey? Are your labels consructive?

Again, there is a difference between acknowledgement of the challenges of a course of action and simply throwing stones.

Funny you mention nuclear, as that is the least likely type of powerplant to proliferate, despite the fact that some of the existing ones are obscenely profitable. But, you seem to have all the answers, so good luck with that.

See this: That's a wink. That means it was a joke. I never claimed to have all the answers. Ever.

[eaton53]

Originally Posted by PhishPhood

All of these will be put to use by all of us. Imagine how complicated it will be to buy a vehcle in the future.

V8. Gasoline.
See... that was easy!!

[TruckMan]

Originally Posted by eaton53

V8. Gasoline.
See... that was easy!!

X2

[PhishPhood]

Originally Posted by 377Z

A electric car sales could absolutely boom in a mature market like the US, it would simply be at the expense of ICE cars. This is what I had in mind, not a boom of electrics in addition to maintaining ICE car sales.

Yes electric vehicle could boom but for the foreseeable future EVs and the such will be premium vehicles beyond the means of of Joe and Edith Middleclass.

The diffusion of the technology will be slow at first as it has to be shown to be reliable and durable. Then the volume has to reach a critical mass where costs come down. Then there's the whole question of what to do with the drivers who just have no opportunity to plugin their vehicles - ever.

No, I think the term 'booming' is too optimistic.

[DaJudge]

Originally Posted by DemonKnightDK

I'd be all for a large (bonniville, LeSabre, Aurura) sized car with an electric engine/motor 170HP and lord knows how much TQ.. the baterys are still the issue. but what if they used 4 smaller motors at each wheel? run two for most of the time, then in slick conditions, they other two kick in for AWD, that should be preaty easy to package I would think.

I'd love to put solar pannels on my garage, if I had one. It amazes me that so many people think every one has a garage.. hell the way my town is I probably would pay more to get a permit to install solar on my roof than it would cost for the solor pannels.

If the government is that big on change, they need to help retro fit old houses with insulation, new more efficent heating and cooling options, and maybe even solar pannles.. cause have you looked a the price of a new effcient heating system?

I think the real issues are with housing and not so much the auto world.

Um... I think I was speaking of my garage. I do not know you nor do I know if you have a garage. I do not believe I said anything about everyone having a garage.

[JeffInDFW]

I think we should all hire strippers, have them wear angora sweaters that they rub up against us to generate electricity to power our Volts.

[HotCarNut]

Originally Posted by JeffInDFW

I think we should all hire strippers, have them wear angora sweaters that they rub up against us to generate electricity to power our Volts.

.........sometimes there are simply no words

I realize that you were joking, but sadly there will be an idiot or two who takes you seriously and starts asking about the feasability and cost effectiveness of this method of power generation. These same people are the reason that duct tape was invented.

[camaro75]

Don't expect anything astounding from our stinkin' Government, the best they can do to conserve energy is to force us to change to ugly, mercury filled light bulbs in 2014.

[Saturn69]

Originally Posted by camaro75

Don't expect anything astounding from our stinkin' Government, the best they can do to conserve energy is to force us to change to ugly, mercury filled light bulbs in 2014.

1. Who cares what the bulb looks like?

2. There's less mercury in a CFL than there is in a dental filling. Why aren't people pissing and moaning about the dentist?