Possible Production Volt Range Extending Engine Pic

[plane]

Ok folks. More to digest. The Volt is looking better and better......

http://gm-volt.com/2008/07/26/gm-exp...-for-the-volt/

This article clearly shows that MonaroSS is totally out to lunch.

[Joevette]

there something about your posts monaro that im just not buying, maybe its your winking smiley... provide some real sources for you information, otherwise we will wait and see, if it was actually a parallel hybrid it wouldn't take this long to get on the road, they've already created it, its called the 2-mode

[ronald mcretard]

Originally Posted by MonaroSS

Given the size and weight of the Volt and the output of the original engine most of it's power would be consumed in driving and it would have been during light cruise and at lights that it would have been freed up to do most of the recharging.... and nobody be so dumb as to say, "but the ICE isn't connected to the wheels it only recharges the battery" Please! The ICE's power turns the generator, which sends power into the battery pack whereupon it IMMEDIATELY leaves to go to the electric motor. If the electric motor draws less than the ICE and generator are putting out then it could recharge the battery but now they won't let the computer do that in order to protect battery life. Its all about compromise.

From the top of my head the Volt's batteries can't be charged more than 80% or let fall below 30%.

It has been my understanding that electricity from the generator will have two possible paths: 1) directly to the drive motor or 2) directly to the batteries. It doesn't make sense to me that the power would go from the generator to the batteries, and then from the batteries to the drive motor. That would cycle the batteries needlessly and introduce unneeded inefficiencies.

[MechEng]

Originally Posted by MonaroSS

Given the size and weight of the Volt and the output of the original engine most of it's power would be consumed in driving and it would have been during light cruise and at lights that it would have been freed up to do most of the recharging

Really what are the performance numbers of the 1L 3cyl Turbo engine? And whose to say they will be much different than a 1.4L 4cyl natural aspirated.

Originally Posted by MonaroSS

"but the ICE isn't connected to the wheels it only recharges the battery"

It's not mechanically connected.

Originally Posted by MonaroSS

If the electric motor draws less than the ICE and generator are putting out then it could recharge the battery but now they won't let the computer do that in order to protect battery life. Its all about compromise.

Quote please. I think your making this up.

Originally Posted by MonaroSS

From the top of my head the Volt's batteries can't be charged more than 80% or let fall below 30%.

Can't is a strong word. More like under normal operating conditions. I'm sure there will be conditions were the software will allow the battery to operate outside this range.

[ronald mcretard]

Quotes from GM's Larry Nitz (guy in charge of hybrid powertrains):

Nitz also noted that the four cylinder has a lower cost and that when the turbocharging architecture is added to the 3-cylinder engine, the non-turbo four cylinder engine setup is actually lighter.

He notes that the engine never has to perform dynamic response, that only comes from the battery and electric motor side.

Nitz also states that GM has refined the charging window of the pack as 35% to 85%, whereas previously GM had said it would be 30% to 80%. He does say though that the battery could be discharged below 35% if it has to on rare occasions, but that when steady state resumes, the battery will recharge as the engine then produces more output than the car requires at that time.

See plane's post above for link.

[MechEng]

Originally Posted by plane

Ok folks. More to digest. The Volt is looking better and better......

http://gm-volt.com/2008/07/26/gm-exp...-for-the-volt/

This article clearly shows that MonaroSS is totally out to lunch.

Thanks plane.

That clears up a lot. The reasoning sound more along the lines of what I was thinking.

Leads me to believe that the engineers have found a better solution all around. Kind of a win win.

[packardlust]

Originally Posted by plane

Ok folks. More to digest. The Volt is looking better and better......

http://gm-volt.com/2008/07/26/gm-exp...-for-the-volt/

)

Great Find!

[MonaroSS]

Originally Posted by Joevette

there something about your posts monaro that im just not buying, maybe its your winking smiley... provide some real sources for you information, otherwise we will wait and see, if it was actually a parallel hybrid it wouldn't take this long to get on the road, they've already created it, its called the 2-mode

OK you guys got me. I know nothing about this and you guys know everything.

Plane I love that load of GM propaganda spin you just heaped on this guys. If you people believe that the 3-cylinder engine, even with turbo, was heavier then I have a bridge to sell you.

When they sat around discussing PR talking points on this here's how the conversation probably went:

"So how do we explain why we are going to a much heavier engine?"

"Well the public don't know what the weight of the original 71hp 3 cylinder engine was going to be down to for production.... that original mock-up engine though was pretty heavy wasn't it, and it had the generator attached whereas now with the 2-mode the generator technically can provide drive and be part of the drive motor so if we don't add that weight to the new engine but do include the generator weight with the original mock-up engine then we aren't really telling a lie. Not if we say the new engine "setup" is lighter than the old engine "setup"".

"Do you really think they will all buy that, even though the actual car weight goes up?"

"Who cares, most of those idiots will and that's all that matters".

"What about the fact that we've ditched the original Volt series technology and are now going with Plan-B which is the 2-mode transaxle with a plug-in large battery pack? Won't people realise this?"

"No, just say that as the 4 cylinder is longer we had to reconfigure the packaging somewhat to make it fit. Say it's turning out nice."

"Well of course the repackage is nice, it's the same transaxle package we are using in every Delta platform car GM is going to make!"

"Yes but most of these guys will think it's special somehow just because it's Volt. Oh, and say that the aim is to keep the engine off as long as possible; they love that kind of talk. And say that the engine never has to perform “dynamic response”, as that only comes from the battery and electric motor side. That'll put shivers up EV fan’s spines. The fact that this can also be true for 2-mode will go over their little heads."

"Are you sure?"

"Don't worry, we will be able to sell the great majority of them that this 2-mode Plan-B was actually the original Volt plan all along......."

But of course I'm full if it and know nothing, and am just pissing in your pockets....

So just think what ever you want.

[plane]

Originally Posted by MonaroSS

Plane I love that load of GM propaganda spin you just heaped on this guys. If you people believe that the 3-cylinder engine, even with turbo, was heavier then I have a bridge to sell you.

Exactly how much incremental weight are we talking about for the 1.4L? Or total weight for that matter? The Ecotec 2.2 only weighs 307 pounds.

Are we bantering over 50 pounds? Is that all this is about? Sounds like that would be pretty close to the weight of a turbo........

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...07/035473.html

Based on your post, are you stating for the record that the Volt will be a 1.4L 2-Mode Hybrid?

Just want to get that clarified.

[Ambalanche]

Originally Posted by rueben44

You don't have to keep stating it. I know everyone is making fun but there is a reason why every time GM hits with a product the competition seems to stay one pace ahead. If this were Honda or Toyota we would not see images like this at all or not until about 2 months before it hits market. They keep their mouths shut and they seem to stay ahead. I wonder if there is something to that concept. Never mind I think Lockheed Martin should start showing images of secret US planes inside. I mean nothing can be gained from it.

Thanks, my point exactly. I guess I'm in the minority here so I'll let it go and see what happens. I just hope that since GM has given at least SOME info out that they can still beat the competition to market AND have a superior product for more than one model year.

[plane]

Originally Posted by rueben44

...Never mind I think Lockheed Martin should start showing images of secret US planes inside. I mean nothing can be gained from it.

No charge for that one.
Edit: I hear what you are saying, it seems that GM considers the risks worth taking to gain some positive public perception.

[eaton53]

Originally Posted by plane

I hear what you are saying, it seems that GM considers the risks worth taking to gain some positive public perception.

Or it could be that GM has something called PATENTS and knows the competition can't copy them lest they wish to get their pants sued off.

Therefore it doesn't really matter if they show it or not...

[Saturn69]

Originally Posted by wagonertheidiot

I just find it funny that the only fuel efficient car to come out of GM in years isn't even out yet and is going to cost 45 to 50 thousand bucks.

Meanwhile honda is working on a new hybrid that will cost 19,500 bucks.

GM, is there some reason you can't built a cheap, fuel efficient car and honda can?

Wow, the price of the Volt went up again! Last I heard it was 'closer to $40K'.

Yeah, Honda's new hybrid is a great idea, however it will always use gasoline...the Volt has the capability to never use gasoline. Yes. That does cost more. Care to know the price of Honda's FCX Clarity, if you could actually buy one? The previous version cost Honda about $1,000,000 - $2,000,000 per unit. The new one costs Honda about $650,000. Each. Yeah, that's cheaper than a Volt. Temper your criticism with an understanding of the facts, before you start criticizing...it might come off as valid that way. You're comparing Granny Smith to Golden Delicious...yes, they're both apples, but that's where the similarity ends.

[fp115]

Even with all the pictures, facts and things stewed out by GM regarding the Volt it still seems that many don't even know the real from the fake. MonaroSS is the one that seems to be the furthest off out of the whole bunch here. So far the Volt is doing better than originally planned.

[Saturn69]

Originally Posted by MonaroSS

OK you guys got me. I know nothing about this and you guys know everything.

But of course I'm full if it and know nothing, and am just pissing in your pockets....

So just think what ever you want.

Okay, now that that's been agreed upon, can we please end this "GM is stupid" pissing contest? Thanks....